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I just can't understand it...it's just that FlaSh keeps winning. As a Jaedong fan, I grab onto articles like 'Here to Stay' but I'm starting to wonder about Jaedong's thoughts right now. ANY other Zerg would be thinking what that one guy thought in the Oldboy episodes - that there's simply no way to win. Or to be more correct, no way to win in the long run against FlaSh.
I guess this is what happens when you have almost perfected the art of making strategies that counter the entire mindset of individual players (Stork v Flash, GomTV equivalent, really - Jaedong expected something macro-based and FlaSh played it safe. Stork expected standard, FlaSh...didn't do that.)
But I just wish that Jaedong could keep up. For now, I still keep hope that if Jaedong can play mind-games as well as FlaSh, he will dominate again. But what will happen after this...? I'm afraid. I hope Jaedong wins more, and convincingly. But how...?
I mean, I think part of the answer (obviously being a bit presumptuous, let me rant plz - ______ -) is being better at poking through the holes and winning the game, or at least crippling the opponent slightly, which Jaedong is very good at doing - just not good enough. But if you take, say, that one Light v Jaedong MSL semis game (I think set 1 or set 2) where Jaedong makes hydras against mech and breaks the wall-off and definitely had the forces to break the nat and win or at the very least set back Light a lot with careful micro (it was like 9 hydras or something vs 4-6 SCVs and like 4 vults, Light didn't pull SCVs off that much, Jaedong could have probably backed off and picked off the SCVs instead of going to melee range and being surrounded), but he didn't. I think that would have definitely helped.
And the 1st set where he had the ling trap - just because FlaSh was over the lings didn't mean anything - he might as well have ran in after the rines moved away somewhere else, OR at least threatened to do so, either making FlaSh stay in place or split his forces to defend and attack.
But when Jaedong pulls off clutch attacks, he does them more often and better than anybody else, bar none - Ever OSL '07 Finals set 2, Bacchus OSLs Semis vs Fantasy set 3, these two are just a few examples of matches where Jaedong smelled blood in the water - and went in for the kill. But he not only needs to do that, but he needs to do that against anybody and everybody, no matter how small the hole is - because being the Ultimate Weapon doesn't mean that the weapon doesn't have weaknesses.
I am forever a Jaedong fan due to his sheer determination in the face of all those losses, but I look forward to the day when I can look at a JvF VOD and see that momentary sparkle in Jaedong's eyes again - the look that says, "You messed up. Here I come."
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I am a huge Jaedong fan too. But I really think Flash doesn't have a single weakness in his game right now. The only thing that might be one is his ability to defend something like a 4pool. Remember in the 3set of WCG where Flash pulled his scvs to defend the ramp but made a mistake by clumping the scvs and letting the lings into his base to kill the rines? But really, thats about it. His control, his defense, his macro, are just the scariest things i have ever seen. I honestly don't think any zerg or any player for that matter can beat Flash in a straight up game. They have to do something really sneaky to win, and even if they do succeed, they MUST finish the game there, they can't be like oh I did significant damage by killing his natural, I can triple expand and play a macro game. This does not work, remember the game where Kwanro did a sneaky lurker build and killed all the scvs in his natural and lifted the cc? Kwanro then decides to expand like crazy, but he ended up losing to mech. Flash, and the race of terran is just too good at this level to lose a long game, even if zerg has more resources, because they have to dark swarm, plague, lurker siege, control like a million lings, ensnare on some occasions, and vessel snipe. Terrans just need to worry about sieging tanks and spreading mine and irradiating. Also, terrans have far less bases to worry about.
Anyway, thats just my opinion. Jaedong from now on should try 4pools, 3 hatch hydra busts, 2 hatch lurker or muta all-ins, and that stuff, and finish it off then and there.
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Well Terrans were head and shoulders above Zerg in TvZ this year in terms of strategies and metagame. I'd say there was also a shitty map pool, but I think it has more to do with the current balance of the matchup rather than the maps.
I mean come on, we loosely throw the word mind games around and say Flash outsmarted Jaedong but the reality is that at the moment, Terran has many more "mind games", strategies, and ways to abuse the map than Zerg does. Ultimately it's the Zerg game that's gonna develop out of this though, just like how in 2008-2009 Protoss were getting smoked by Zergs left and right, but the matchup has become much more balanced today with new builds and timing pushes being used (like Stork's sair / DT fake --> speedlot push, or different variations of forge FE --> sairs --> 5 gate push).
Patience 
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On September 13 2010 06:41 SubtleArt wrote:Well Terrans were head and shoulders above Zerg in TvZ this year in terms of strategies and metagame. I'd say there was also a shitty map pool, but I think it has more to do with the current balance of the matchup rather than the maps. I mean come on, we loosely throw the word mind games around and say Flash outsmarted Jaedong but the reality is that at the moment, Terran has many more "mind games", strategies, and ways to abuse the map than Zerg does. Ultimately it's the Zerg game that's gonna develop out of this though, just like how in 2008-2009 Protoss were getting smoked by Zergs left and right, but the matchup has become much more balanced today with new builds and timing pushes being used (like Stork's sair / DT fake --> speedlot push, or different variations of forge FE --> sairs --> 5 gate push). Patience
Yeah, I certainly hope so. Remember like 1 or 2 seasons ago where the zergs were dominating left and right. And there was a Calm vs Kwanro final lol and a Jaedong vs YellowArnc final. Yeah, I agree, Starcraft has had different times where different races tend to do better. It just seems like terrans do this for the longest though...
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On September 13 2010 06:45 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:41 SubtleArt wrote:Well Terrans were head and shoulders above Zerg in TvZ this year in terms of strategies and metagame. I'd say there was also a shitty map pool, but I think it has more to do with the current balance of the matchup rather than the maps. I mean come on, we loosely throw the word mind games around and say Flash outsmarted Jaedong but the reality is that at the moment, Terran has many more "mind games", strategies, and ways to abuse the map than Zerg does. Ultimately it's the Zerg game that's gonna develop out of this though, just like how in 2008-2009 Protoss were getting smoked by Zergs left and right, but the matchup has become much more balanced today with new builds and timing pushes being used (like Stork's sair / DT fake --> speedlot push, or different variations of forge FE --> sairs --> 5 gate push). Patience Yeah, I certainly hope so. Remember like 1 or 2 seasons ago where the zergs were dominating left and right. And there was a Calm vs Kwanro final lol and a Jaedong vs YellowArnc final. Yeah, I agree, Starcraft has had different times where different races tend to do better. It just seems like terrans do this for the longest though...
its been ages since the last time there were a good amount of toss doing well lol. at least the finals weren't mirrors 
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On September 13 2010 06:35 Tazza wrote:
Anyway, thats just my opinion. Jaedong from now on should try 4pools, 3 hatch hydra busts, 2 hatch lurker or muta all-ins, and that stuff, and finish it off then and there.
I think he has more self respect than that.
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On September 13 2010 06:35 Tazza wrote:
I honestly don't think any zerg or any player for that matter can beat Flash in a straight up game. They have to do something really sneaky to win, and even if they do succeed, they MUST finish the game there, they can't be like oh I did significant damage by killing his natural, I can triple expand and play a macro game. This does not work, remember the game ...
... on Fighting Spirit during the Bigfile MSL, where Jaedong won a straight up game? that was cool.
T>Z>P>T, "technically," in theory. That's why nobody plays standard. They are trying to engage in countering the counters. Flash is the best at it right now, and I don't think I was "throwing around" the term 'mind games' when I wrote about it in my blog.
If I wanted to be dirty I'd say "well T>Z for free, the maps are good for TvZ, so Jaedong being even with Flash means Jaedong's actually better!" but we're not allowed to say stuff like this by the rabid hordes in the Flash=bonjwa crowd. I try to acknowledge what Flash has done and move on.
Honestly the maps have a bigger effect on the 'metagame' (lol) than people realize. Progamers look at the map during, say, Swarm Season and go "oh crap, I'm Terran, I have to open in such a way to prevent Zerg from getting a billion gas later on Outsider, or I'm going to lose" Zergs look at maps like Polaris Rhapsody during Flash 2010 and say "christ, how the hell can I stop mech terran on this map? it's just impossible"
so these matchup trend/metagame shifts we're seeing don't just take place as a result of the games that get played, they also take place as a result of the viable openings on certain maps.
But when they play straight up, don't say Jaedong won't take games off Flash, because it's just not true. Jaedong is not some scrub you can push around, and Flash is not a demigod who never makes a mistake. Proleague r5 anyone? lol
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On September 13 2010 07:14 Delerium wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:35 Tazza wrote:
I honestly don't think any zerg or any player for that matter can beat Flash in a straight up game. They have to do something really sneaky to win, and even if they do succeed, they MUST finish the game there, they can't be like oh I did significant damage by killing his natural, I can triple expand and play a macro game. This does not work, remember the game ... ... on Fighting Spirit during the Bigfile MSL, where Jaedong won a straight up game? that was cool. T>Z>P>T, "technically," in theory. That's why nobody plays standard. They are trying to engage in countering the counters. Flash is the best at it right now, and I don't think I was "throwing around" the term 'mind games' when I wrote about it in my blog. If I wanted to be dirty I'd say "well T>Z for free, the maps are good for TvZ, so Jaedong being even with Flash means Jaedong's actually better!" but we're not allowed to say stuff like this by the rabid hordes in the Flash=bonjwa crowd. I try to acknowledge what Flash has done and move on. Honestly the maps have a bigger effect on the 'metagame' (lol) than people realize. Progamers look at the map during, say, Swarm Season and go "oh crap, I'm Terran, I have to open in such a way to prevent Zerg from getting a billion gas later on Outsider, or I'm going to lose" Zergs look at maps like Polaris Rhapsody during Flash 2010 and say "christ, how the hell can I stop mech terran on this map? it's just impossible" so these matchup trend/metagame shifts we're seeing don't just take place as a result of the games that get played, they also take place as a result of the viable openings on certain maps. But when they play straight up, don't say Jaedong won't take games off Flash, because it's just not true. Jaedong is not some scrub you can push around, and Flash is not a demigod who never makes a mistake. Proleague r5 anyone? lol
I'm not saying Jaedong has never won a straight up game vs Flash, I'm saying he will have a very very tought time doing it right now. Thats why he 4pooled twice this finals. And normal players might say oh swarm season or stuff like that, but these are normal players. This is Jaedong and Flash, the two best arguably to have ever played the game. The commentators even said there's a zerg, terran, and protoss race, but since Jaedong and Flash, there came new races because these two are just so above everyone else. And in that Fighting Spirit game, Flash played bio the whole time. Zerg actually has a better position if he has 4 gas and terran goes bio, but lately, they go mech, so even if zerg has 5 gases, they're still down and must break a contain somehow. For example, on Odd Eye, or Polaris Rhapsody, zerg absolutely must get both of the corner expansions with 2 gas or get one themself and not let the terran get the other one, or they lose.
Oh yeah, and I totally respect and adore Flash, he is my second favorite player. My fave team is KT Rolster, which is one of the main reasons I like Flash
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On September 13 2010 08:42 Tazza wrote:I'm not saying Jaedong has never won a straight up game vs Flash, I'm saying he will have a very very tought time doing it right now. Thats why he 4pooled twice this finals
WTF are you talking about? NO, is NOT TRUE, everybody have been complaining JD is too predictable and blah blah, "he should 9 pool", "he cant let flash do 14cc again", the real reason was to break his predictability, he really needed it, i dont hate JD for doing 4 pool twice, if he didnt do it, Flash will just keep 14cc forever, JD would be stupid if he just let Flash 14cc forever, even if it cost him to lose the final, he needed to do it, it was already a mistake to let FLash do 14cc so much in previous sets.
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EPT
