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Active: 9824 users

[SC2] TvZ is the hardest matchup for terran

Blogs > Meta
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6228 Posts
August 02 2010 23:53 GMT
#1
For me, anyway. I'm making this looking for suggestions. Everywhere on this forum people are saying this matchup is the hardest in the game for the zerg, and it makes me embarrassed that I'm having such extreme difficulty with it.

First of all, I never know when to attack. I know I have to keep pressure on so they don't pump drones, but my poor micro means my harass (banshee, hellion, marine drops, pretty much anything I send with attempts to kill drones) dies and my poor management means my macro falls when trying to disrupt them.

As for my unit composition, I usually open marine hellion with no addons into an early push if they fast expand. This early push has won me multiple games, which is why I keep doing it.

The other opening I use vs zerg is 1 rax FE into 1-1-1. I like this because it gets me to the mid and even late game. I usually try to get siege tanks while massing up marines and marauders, and getting upgrades for bio along with medivacs.

By the time I get about 3 tanks I figure it's time to push out to a tower and continuing to put pressure on with drops.

Here are a couple replays of games I played today.
In the first one, I just got caught off-guard because I've never had that happen to me before (you'll see). After I lost like 15-20 scv's I just pushed out into his main in a desperate attempt to deal damage but got raped by a flank.
The second one I feel like I just got discouraged towards the end and played sloppily (forgot to maynard after my main ran out, made a banshee in the beginning and forgot about it at my nat).

I just need general suggestions. TvP for me is the easiest matchup in the world, and TvT can be rough but at least I get why I lose most of the time. TvZ, ever since I started playing this game in the beta in March, has just been awful for me.

Game #1
[url blocked]

Game #2
[url blocked]

**
good vibes only
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
August 03 2010 00:01 GMT
#2
really? just proxy reaper and transition into macro. idra says this is whats going on the asia server like every game and zerg can barely ever win.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
August 03 2010 00:02 GMT
#3
As a Zerg player I seem to lose to a very simple Terran wall in. Terran stays on 1 base, no expansions the entire game. Then rolls out with a death ball of Marine, Maurader, Medivac and Hellion. If you can keep that deathball going and time it right, it's pretty much GG.
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
August 03 2010 00:05 GMT
#4
mules make terrans one base more than your two base zerg, except for gas of course.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
Loser777
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
1931 Posts
August 03 2010 00:10 GMT
#5
It's not a good idea to slap a huge generalization into the title of a blog based solely on your own experience -.-;

My advice: find a build order that is proven to work effectively, and practice it vs comps or other players until you cannot make mistakes. TvZ used to be hardest matchup for me in SC1, but I massed single player games and did 3 tank 1 vessel timing attack endlessly. TvZ is now the easiest matchup for me.
6581
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23448 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 00:18:25
August 03 2010 00:16 GMT
#6
"First of all, I never know when to attack. I know I have to keep pressure on so they don't pump drones, but my poor micro means my harass (banshee, hellion, marine drops, pretty much anything I send with attempts to kill drones) dies and my poor management means my macro falls when trying to disrupt them."

That paragraph pretty much contradicts your thread title. You attack before he gets hive with some ball of marines marauders and siegetanks adding maybe a raven or thors. Wait till you've got like 100+food and +2 weapon or even +1 and kill him.
You want to harass him with the hellions and banshees but you don't need to do damage the moer units he makes the less you harass since he's cutting drones.

People overreact to mules. 1 Mule = 3 scvs on unsaturated patches. 1 OC = constant 3 scvs assuming no scans. It accounts for more on saturated patches but really, 1 terran is NOT even close to 2 base zerg with full drones. The reason terran can compete is that their units do so well with any kind of micro unless zerg has enough to completely overrun your harass.
aka Teutonica
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
August 03 2010 00:24 GMT
#7
I think zerg is the harder race to play at lower levels. My friends, who I always beat, hit gold and silver with terran and protoss, whereas I was put into bronze. Another friend who plays zerg also got put into bronze.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 00:39:03
August 03 2010 00:38 GMT
#8
check out saracen's guide. It gives three laid out builds that will win you most of your TvZs.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140524

Here you go. Remember if your build fails, make some banshees and tanks
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
August 03 2010 00:40 GMT
#9
On August 03 2010 09:38 kNyTTyM wrote:
check out saracen's guide. It gives three laid out builds that will win you most of your TvZs.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140524

Here you go. Remember if your build fails, make some banshees and tanks


but what if they have mutas?
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Flicky
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
England2675 Posts
August 03 2010 00:40 GMT
#10
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
Liquipedia"I was seriously looking for a black guy" - MrHoon
FlameSworD
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
August 03 2010 00:56 GMT
#11
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 03 2010 09:40 SilentCrono wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 09:38 kNyTTyM wrote:
check out saracen's guide. It gives three laid out builds that will win you most of your TvZs.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140524

Here you go. Remember if your build fails, make some banshees and tanks


but what if they have mutas?


make like 2 turrets T_T
skyhighftw on iccup
reza
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada213 Posts
August 03 2010 00:59 GMT
#12
On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.


how does that make sense
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 01:02:53
August 03 2010 01:01 GMT
#13
A lot of builds are viable vs zerg, and up until top 10 diamond, it is a pretty easy matchup.

A simple 4 marine + hellion push is one way to force him into a little more zerglings and/or roaches. This stems from the 1-1-1, so you can either get a fast banshee/viking after, or go for a thorship, depending on your followup. A banshee followup is usually the best since it gives you a safe expo since he won't have any air attacking units for a while, just be wary of an all in play. And keep track of his lair/spire timing if he goes that route.

Opening 3 rax reaper lets you take your expansion REALLY fast, while keeping map control. Just know when to start pumping marauders/thors then transition into a really strong mmm/thor push which usually wins the game if you did some damage early.

The thing about zerg is that you really can't let them pump, so while you are macroing, as you already know, do cute and annoying shit to him. Just constantly have 4 hellions running around the map, letting you snipe drones when possible and giving you knowledge as to whether or not he has expanded. If you do see him pumping too many drones, just unseige, rally, and attack while setting up for a 3rd.







GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
August 03 2010 01:01 GMT
#14
Are you serious? I would say that ZvT is the hardest matchup for Zerg. IMO, its WAY EASY for Terran. Lets see why:
Thors > Everything
Hellions > Lings
Tanks > All Ground
So basically, mech terran is unstoppable. (thats my piece of advice)
133 221 333 123 111
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6228 Posts
August 03 2010 01:01 GMT
#15
On August 03 2010 09:38 kNyTTyM wrote:
check out saracen's guide. It gives three laid out builds that will win you most of your TvZs.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140524

Here you go. Remember if your build fails, make some banshees and tanks


Holy crap, awesome This is exactly what I was looking for - the reason why most people think TvZ is imbalanced in favored of T.

Thanks.

And, sorry for the abusive name of this thread, I was frustrated.
good vibes only
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
August 03 2010 01:01 GMT
#16
On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.


how does that make sense

T is fucking imba.
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
August 03 2010 01:06 GMT
#17
On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.


how does that make sense

It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30.
reza
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada213 Posts
August 03 2010 01:09 GMT
#18
On August 03 2010 10:06 superbabosheki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:
On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.


how does that make sense

It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30.


maybe you should play ZvZ ...if you want to see an early game 'gayfest'
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
August 03 2010 01:16 GMT
#19
On August 03 2010 10:09 reza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 10:06 superbabosheki wrote:
On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:
On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.


how does that make sense

It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30.


maybe you should play ZvZ ...if you want to see an early game 'gayfest'

Micro is actually important in ling/baneling, TvT is a build order battle, where half the games involve some sort of all-in strategy from either player.
reza
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada213 Posts
August 03 2010 01:20 GMT
#20
when one baneling takes out a dozen lings, what good is micro
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