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For me, anyway. I'm making this looking for suggestions. Everywhere on this forum people are saying this matchup is the hardest in the game for the zerg, and it makes me embarrassed that I'm having such extreme difficulty with it.
First of all, I never know when to attack. I know I have to keep pressure on so they don't pump drones, but my poor micro means my harass (banshee, hellion, marine drops, pretty much anything I send with attempts to kill drones) dies and my poor management means my macro falls when trying to disrupt them.
As for my unit composition, I usually open marine hellion with no addons into an early push if they fast expand. This early push has won me multiple games, which is why I keep doing it.
The other opening I use vs zerg is 1 rax FE into 1-1-1. I like this because it gets me to the mid and even late game. I usually try to get siege tanks while massing up marines and marauders, and getting upgrades for bio along with medivacs.
By the time I get about 3 tanks I figure it's time to push out to a tower and continuing to put pressure on with drops.
Here are a couple replays of games I played today.
In the first one, I just got caught off-guard because I've never had that happen to me before (you'll see). After I lost like 15-20 scv's I just pushed out into his main in a desperate attempt to deal damage but got raped by a flank.
The second one I feel like I just got discouraged towards the end and played sloppily (forgot to maynard after my main ran out, made a banshee in the beginning and forgot about it at my nat).
I just need general suggestions. TvP for me is the easiest matchup in the world, and TvT can be rough but at least I get why I lose most of the time. TvZ, ever since I started playing this game in the beta in March, has just been awful for me.
Game #1
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Game #2
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really? just proxy reaper and transition into macro. idra says this is whats going on the asia server like every game and zerg can barely ever win.
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As a Zerg player I seem to lose to a very simple Terran wall in. Terran stays on 1 base, no expansions the entire game. Then rolls out with a death ball of Marine, Maurader, Medivac and Hellion. If you can keep that deathball going and time it right, it's pretty much GG.
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mules make terrans one base more than your two base zerg, except for gas of course.
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It's not a good idea to slap a huge generalization into the title of a blog based solely on your own experience -.-;
My advice: find a build order that is proven to work effectively, and practice it vs comps or other players until you cannot make mistakes. TvZ used to be hardest matchup for me in SC1, but I massed single player games and did 3 tank 1 vessel timing attack endlessly. TvZ is now the easiest matchup for me.
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"First of all, I never know when to attack. I know I have to keep pressure on so they don't pump drones, but my poor micro means my harass (banshee, hellion, marine drops, pretty much anything I send with attempts to kill drones) dies and my poor management means my macro falls when trying to disrupt them."
That paragraph pretty much contradicts your thread title. You attack before he gets hive with some ball of marines marauders and siegetanks adding maybe a raven or thors. Wait till you've got like 100+food and +2 weapon or even +1 and kill him.
You want to harass him with the hellions and banshees but you don't need to do damage the moer units he makes the less you harass since he's cutting drones.
People overreact to mules. 1 Mule = 3 scvs on unsaturated patches. 1 OC = constant 3 scvs assuming no scans. It accounts for more on saturated patches but really, 1 terran is NOT even close to 2 base zerg with full drones. The reason terran can compete is that their units do so well with any kind of micro unless zerg has enough to completely overrun your harass.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
I think zerg is the harder race to play at lower levels. My friends, who I always beat, hit gold and silver with terran and protoss, whereas I was put into bronze. Another friend who plays zerg also got put into bronze.
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but what if they have mutas?
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England2662 Posts
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2010 09:40 SilentCrono wrote:but what if they have mutas?
make like 2 turrets T_T
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On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense
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A lot of builds are viable vs zerg, and up until top 10 diamond, it is a pretty easy matchup.
A simple 4 marine + hellion push is one way to force him into a little more zerglings and/or roaches. This stems from the 1-1-1, so you can either get a fast banshee/viking after, or go for a thorship, depending on your followup. A banshee followup is usually the best since it gives you a safe expo since he won't have any air attacking units for a while, just be wary of an all in play. And keep track of his lair/spire timing if he goes that route.
Opening 3 rax reaper lets you take your expansion REALLY fast, while keeping map control. Just know when to start pumping marauders/thors then transition into a really strong mmm/thor push which usually wins the game if you did some damage early.
The thing about zerg is that you really can't let them pump, so while you are macroing, as you already know, do cute and annoying shit to him. Just constantly have 4 hellions running around the map, letting you snipe drones when possible and giving you knowledge as to whether or not he has expanded. If you do see him pumping too many drones, just unseige, rally, and attack while setting up for a 3rd.
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Are you serious? I would say that ZvT is the hardest matchup for Zerg. IMO, its WAY EASY for Terran. Lets see why:
Thors > Everything
Hellions > Lings
Tanks > All Ground
So basically, mech terran is unstoppable. (thats my piece of advice)
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Holy crap, awesome  This is exactly what I was looking for - the reason why most people think TvZ is imbalanced in favored of T.
Thanks.
And, sorry for the abusive name of this thread, I was frustrated. 
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On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense
T is fucking imba.
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On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense
It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30.
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On August 03 2010 10:06 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30.
maybe you should play ZvZ ...if you want to see an early game 'gayfest'
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On August 03 2010 10:09 reza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:06 superbabosheki wrote:On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30. maybe you should play ZvZ ...if you want to see an early game 'gayfest'
Micro is actually important in ling/baneling, TvT is a build order battle, where half the games involve some sort of all-in strategy from either player.
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when one baneling takes out a dozen lings, what good is micro
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On August 03 2010 10:20 reza wrote:
when one baneling takes out a dozen lings, what good is micro
lol, that is micro!
zvz is actually pretty cool, the skill ceiling for ling and bling micro is actually quite high,
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On August 03 2010 10:22 ShaperofDreams wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:20 reza wrote:
when one baneling takes out a dozen lings, what good is micro lol, that is micro! zvz is actually pretty cool, the skill ceiling for ling and bling micro is actually quite high,
Until you look away for just a second and your speed upgraded lings on creep charge at a baneling..
God I hate that mathctup
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On August 03 2010 10:16 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:09 reza wrote:On August 03 2010 10:06 superbabosheki wrote:On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30. maybe you should play ZvZ ...if you want to see an early game 'gayfest' Micro is actually important in ling/baneling, TvT is a build order battle, where half the games involve some sort of all-in strategy from either player.
Sounds suspiciously like BW ZvZ lol.
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Not directly saying that TvZ is perfectly balanced as a matchup here, yet I still must break my lurkage on these forums to interfer;
What kind of arguments are people spewing here? "terran X wins against zerg Y" - Well yes, in most cases, terran wins toe-to-toe straight up against zerg, especially mech.
Why? Mech is the most immobile, costly and hard-to-produce piece of army, perhaps in all of SC2. With siege lines carefully deployed and with vikings scouting for them, a zerg opponent determined to bullrush his equal supply hydra army into a that kind of mech army... What do you guys expect?
SC2 is not about simple toe-to-toe attack move fights. Zerg is a versatile race with very flexible game mechanics, and fast units capable of sneaky attacks, seizing mapcontrol and a amazing ability to techswap and massproduce an army, fast. Going upfront with a terran mech is just plain dumb. You have to outmaneouver the terran. Exploit his lack of mobility, the fact that his units are so damn costly and slow to build, through MULTIPLE structures with different addons (an easily scouted, slow producing macro race)
So stop with the "THAT TERRAN UNIT WINS AGAINST THIS ZERG, WHY?", why is because the terran unit most likely is slower, requires equally careful positioning as a zerg surround and most of all, it's more expensive and time-costly. And once you kill it, you cannot spawnlarvae 7 of those units back with that huge clump of cash you got from your poor macro.
Sure I can agree that terrans early game allows for a too smooth transition into heavy mech, and marauders are way to good versus light, but for the love of god, zerg is so much more than just hydra+attack move.
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On August 03 2010 11:36 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:16 superbabosheki wrote:On August 03 2010 10:09 reza wrote:On August 03 2010 10:06 superbabosheki wrote:On August 03 2010 09:59 reza wrote:On August 03 2010 09:40 Flicky wrote:
I would strongly argue that TvT is the hardest matchup as Terran.
how does that make sense It is the hardest matchup, there is so much stupid shit that T's can do to each other that it becomes an early game gayfest into a tank/viking transition. Almost every TvT ends b4 tank/viking is even viable since whoever boned each other the hardest wins. Thor drops, all in marauders running up your ramp even though you have a bunker and 3 tanks, the list goes on and on. Just think about all the gay things protoss can do to terran(void rays, dts, warp prisms, blink stalkers, etc.) and multiply it by 30. maybe you should play ZvZ ...if you want to see an early game 'gayfest' Micro is actually important in ling/baneling, TvT is a build order battle, where half the games involve some sort of all-in strategy from either player. Sounds suspiciously like BW ZvZ lol.
ZvZ is actually a fun matchup cuz it involves high speed play imo. Gotta keep pressure while focusing on economy.
And yeah.... Terran steam rolls most Zergs ezpz
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Isn't it a little narcissistic to say TvZ is the hardest matchup just because you yourself are having trouble with it? Especially when 99% of Zergs, including top zergs like Idra, are saying Terran is overpowered vZ
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I am kind of an exception from the rule because I literally cannot win TvZ. I play in the top of diamond league and I win 80% of my TvP and TvT and then I just go on massive loosing streaks to zerg. I can't stand playing full mech. I don't like it, it is too slow and too immobile and nothing else seems to work. Banelings just seems way too strong and I have no idea what to do anymore so now I probably loose just because of psychology. Doesn't help that everyone only talks about how overpowered terran is in TvZ either so I can't seem to get any good guidance on what to do.
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EPT
