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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Its the same people who say WC3 sucks, then goes and gets owned by Lucifron/Demuslim/etc, which I would say 95% of european/americans can not beat either of those two players. But yet they still bash WC3 because its the "cool" thing to do. Oh the best part; it is only people who cant reach C- who talk shit about WC3/other games generally.. the ones who suck even at BW. I havent seen too many skilled BW players talking shit about WC3 like the D+ kids do. | ||
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.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:12 Skyze wrote: its typical BW kids, they think they are gods gift to gaming. Its the same people who say WC3 sucks, then goes and gets owned by Lucifron/Demuslim/etc, which I would say 95% of european/americans can not beat either of those two players. But yet they still bash WC3 because its the "cool" thing to do. Oh the best part; it is only people who cant reach C- who talk shit about WC3/other games generally.. the ones who suck even at BW. I havent seen too many skilled BW players talking shit about WC3 like the D+ kids do. ??????????????????? Artosis lol User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:12 Skyze wrote: its typical BW kids, they think they are gods gift to gaming. Its the same people who say WC3 sucks, then goes and gets owned by Lucifron/Demuslim/etc, which I would say 95% of european/americans can not beat either of those two players. But yet they still bash WC3 because its the "cool" thing to do. Oh the best part; it is only people who cant reach C- who talk shit about WC3/other games generally.. the ones who suck even at BW. I havent seen too many skilled BW players talking shit about WC3 like the D+ kids do. It's just there's a huge difference between being one of the best players at some random game, and being one of the best players at a game infinitely more popular (and therefore more competitive). I don't say other games aren't fun, but SC:BW is easily the most competitive and most successful eSport around ever. So when someone tells me they were top 5 at Total Annihilation, I can say that's cool, but that translates to hitting C on iCCup. There's also a problem with using SC2 as a measure of someone's skill. That game is still in its beta. No doubt there are some people who are very good at it, but compared to SC:BW it's still some random game that's not as popular or competitive (since it hasn't gotten a chance to be yet). You might as well brag about how good you were at WarCraft II 13 years ago... no one cares. The op said that it's hypocritical for SC gamers to think of non-SC gamers as less competitive, since there's some fictional people that look down on SC. Well even if these people exist, all I have to do is say "South Korea, $$$, 10 hours a day for years" and I've pretty succinctly proven them wrong. The only complaint I've ever heard from people about SC is that the graphics are old, but that's from casual gamers. This site is about professional StarCraft, and thus that's always the context we're speaking in. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
you have a strong point skyze... but most former cnc players have a paper bag over their head when entering the SC community... the problem is, CnC has always had the potential to be good competitive games, got close a few times, but the devs just always sucked and never gave the community what it wanted | ||
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.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:37 Chef wrote: It's just there's a huge difference between being one of the best players at some random game, and being one of the best players at a game infinitely more popular (and therefore more competitive). I don't say other games aren't fun, but SC:BW is easily the most competitive and most successful eSport around ever. So when someone tells me they were top 5 at Total Annihilation, I can say that's cool, but that translates to hitting C on iCCup. There's also a problem with using SC2 as a measure of someone's skill. That game is still in its beta. No doubt there are some people who are very good at it, but compared to SC:BW it's still some random game that's not as popular or competitive (since it hasn't gotten a chance to be yet). You might as well brag about how good you were at WarCraft II 13 years ago... no one cares. The op said that it's hypocritical for SC gamers to think of non-SC gamers as less competitive, since there's some fictional people that look down on SC. Well even if these people exist, all I have to do is say "South Korea, $$$, 10 hours a day for years" and I've pretty succinctly proven them wrong. The only complaint I've ever heard from people about SC is that the graphics are old, but that's from casual gamers. This site is about professional StarCraft, and thus that's always the context we're speaking in. By this logic WoW is the hardest game ever, which is fine if you actually believe that | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
(I'm assuming by hard you mean competitive. See post below for why it wouldn't make sense otherwise) | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:42 404.TooEz wrote: By this logic WoW is the hardest game ever, which is fine if you actually believe that He never mentioned difficulty with regard to any game. This thread is like youtube comments. | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:37 Chef wrote: It's just there's a huge difference between being one of the best players at some random game, and being one of the best players at a game infinitely more popular (and therefore more competitive). I don't say other games aren't fun, but SC:BW is easily the most competitive and most successful eSport around ever. So when someone tells me they were top 5 at Total Annihilation, I can say that's cool, but that translates to hitting C on iCCup. There's also a problem with using SC2 as a measure of someone's skill. That game is still in its beta. No doubt there are some people who are very good at it, but compared to SC:BW it's still some random game that's not as popular or competitive (since it hasn't gotten a chance to be yet). You might as well brag about how good you were at WarCraft II 13 years ago... no one cares. The op said that it's hypocritical for SC gamers to think of non-SC gamers as less competitive, since there's some fictional people that look down on SC. Well even if these people exist, all I have to do is say "South Korea, $$$, 10 hours a day for years" and I've pretty succinctly proven them wrong. The only complaint I've ever heard from people about SC is that the graphics are old, but that's from casual gamers. This site is about professional StarCraft, and thus that's always the context we're speaking in. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (HD Remix) is now the hardest game competitively in the world by Chef-logic. I played 10-12 hours a day to maintain a high rank in RA2, it wasn't a game you could play non-chalantly, or just use one rush build and always win, that's pre-rank 2000. When you got into the top 2000 is when you see all of the harder strategies, and in the top 100 is where you see all of those strategies streamlined and perfected. When it was popular, for about 2 years, there were a good 500,000 people on the world ranking, from all over the world. The servers were not seperated like early BNET. I'd say that's pretty popular, and it did have quite a few korean players as well, and I did play them often. Red Alert 2 was not some random game, it was a higly competitive, very popular game in it's time, you just seemed to have forgotten how popular it was. It was a pretty heavy contender for taking people off of playing Starcraft, and it was out before Warcraft III. The fault of the game losing momentum was the release of Yuri's Revenge. Very shortly after Yuri's Revenge release, everyone grew tired of it because of the imbalanced nature of the game. Yuri was just too good. Yuri's side never was properly balanced, so yes it was Westwood/PacificEA's fault, and everyone recognizes that. | ||
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.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:46 Chef wrote: If WoW players spent 100% of their game time doing competitive PvP it could be. WoW's an exploration/rpg type game with a PvP gimmick (similar to Diablo II). The PvP aspect of WoW isn't particular popular I think. People mostly like the PvM. (I'm assuming by hard you mean competitive. See post below for why it wouldn't make sense otherwise) sorry I actually meant competitive lol =p for me hard = competitive, i guess thats why im a broodwar player^^ but I was simply wondering as regards to popularity - competitiveness thats why I brought this point up, but what you say is definitely true ^^ | ||
Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:52 Aberu wrote: Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (HD Remix) is now the hardest game competitively in the world by Chef-logic. This analogy doesn't even make sense. HDR was released on November 25, 2008. There are many, many fighting games that are older, have more money for prizes, and have a more competitive scene. In fact, I can't even imagine what you are thinking when you make this analogy. What part of HDR coincides with what Chef what talking about? | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
It's actually so similar that even the developers knew that they couldn't balance Akuma without removing his air fireball and keep the game the same. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
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PokePill
United States1048 Posts
Name: nerdKILLER.dignitas Rank: Unknown Realm: EU Race: Zerg most likely Rating: 1526 Win/Loss: 93-80 Win Ratio: 53.76% Outlook: Favorable Additional Recon: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=123587 | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Endurance of popularity is something I think that has to be considered too. If a game is popular for 2 or 3 years (like you seem to be suggesting C&C was), how can you really say that it's met the same level of competition as StarCraft has, where people seem to play that long just be good enough to lose on TV? | ||
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
Maybe you've never heard of evo, Chef, but now would be a good time to learn. It's the biggest fighting game tournament in the world and probably the most publicized. SBO is another huge one. | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On June 25 2010 08:47 PokePill wrote: Scouting Report for OP Name: nerdKILLER.dignitas Rank: Unknown Realm: EU Race: Zerg most likely Rating: 1526 Win/Loss: 93-80 Win Ratio: 53.76% Outlook: Favorable Additional Recon: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=123587 Based on that it looks good, but I think that was before he lived in Korea and trained with all the pros over there. Thank you so much for the help. Helping me get a feel for how he plays kinda. | ||
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stalife
Canada1222 Posts
You should stick to a build that you are most comfortable with and have most experience with. nobody's unbeatable and I'm sure that with everyone being fairly noob at sc2, including these "progamers", you should be confident with your own skills. If you stick to whatever you are comfortable with, the worst case scenario would be a replay you can go back to and study your mistakes, or what apollo did well. Overall, you should not be so focused in winning, because there will be plenty more tournaments just like this in the future | ||
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
 , if I win round 1 I got to play NonY :'( you get the lucky end of the stick  | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 25 2010 09:48 H wrote: http://evo2k.com/ Maybe you've never heard of evo, Chef, but now would be a good time to learn. It's the biggest fighting game tournament in the world and probably the most publicized. SBO is another huge one. I've actually been to that site once because I was looking for competitive Street Fighter VODs because for awhile I was pretty interested. Then I couldn't find any. And when I searched on youtube all I could find was people speed running the single player. But then again, I was specifically looking for Street Fighter II, since I don't care about any other fighting games. All I could find was lurkdawg, who although hilarious, is not a professional. | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On June 26 2010 01:44 Chef wrote: I've actually been to that site once because I was looking for competitive Street Fighter VODs because for awhile I was pretty interested. Then I couldn't find any. And when I searched on youtube all I could find was people speed running the single player. But then again, I was specifically looking for Street Fighter II, since I don't care about any other fighting games. All I could find was lurkdawg, who although hilarious, is not a professional. You couldn't find any? And super smash has been around a long time too. Been played competitively for a while with many tournaments of turnouts of 300 people just for Smash. Fighting games are very challenging and competitive. You need to pull off techniques regularly that require 1/60th of a second timings, you have to mix mindgaming with solid playing, you have to know more than just 3 matchups (lawl when people talk about matchups and knowing matchups here, try learning 42 matchups). And there are "bonjwa" like people that just absolutely dominate the scene in fighting games as well. In smash there was mango who went 2 1/2 years getting first place at every tournament he went to. There was Ken who pretty much got first at almost every tournament for 3-4 years. There was Isai who no one even debates him being the best of all time and still today at Smash 64. There's Mew2king who had a couple slumps but still has the most 1st places ever in Smash Brawl, and still placed first and beat mango in Melee, the game he doesn't even practice anymore. There's Chudat who has earned over 60,000 dollars playing smash over his career, leisurely. Justin wong and Daigo are "bonjwa"-ish players from street fighter. Street fighter is so big competitively there is a man by the name of David Sirlin who wrote a decently selling book about competition, Playing to Win. Go look it up. http://www.sirlin.net/ His book makes mention of Starcraft as well, he also popularized a lecture-styled class on Starcraft at UC Berkeley. A CLASS ON STARCRAFT. | ||
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