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So I'm at work with a coworker, she said she was REALLY good at chess back in highschool, beating all the chess champs from her school. So I challenged her to a friendly match.
I would consider myself, decent, at best. I don't play often at all, although i used to a bit back in junior high, highschool, but never played for any clubs or anything. just for fun with friends/family occasionally.
somehow, i end up getting a quick advantage over her, and i swear i think i won the game, but she says the times up and she has to leave to meet up a group for a project (obvious dodge? lolz)
so here's the picture of when she left:
![[image loading]](http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/293/cannieloseschess.jpg)
I'm white, she's black. She says that if she could stay, she could turn the game around. I say no. I don't think I would even let a champion chess player of whatever caliber take the game when i'm at such an obvious advantage. but then again, i'm pretty amateur so maybe i'm underestimating the capabilities of top-talent players.
Poll: Could she, theoretically, beat me??no, definitely not. (57) 66% yep, only if you make a big mistake (23) 27% yep, it's possible (even if i don't make big mistakes) (6) 7% 86 total votes Your vote: Could she, theoretically, beat me?? (Vote): yep, it's possible (even if i don't make big mistakes)
(Vote): yep, only if you make a big mistake
(Vote): no, definitely not.
and one more question, is having the first move (being white) a huge advantage?
 
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Not sure what ELO she is, but i doubt Anand could get out of that situation vs any player with like, 1200 elo or something. Just put your bishop on B3 and take all his shit. She's clearly just really cocky.
Example:
b-b3 [threatening R-f7] R-a8 R-f7 [knight exchange is not possible] and black is tied up and lost. Just c4 c5 c6 c7 c8 win.
If knight tries to get out via N-g6 just play d4 and knight is still trapped. Rook can't afford to move and lose the a-pawn since that's the only way she can come back.
Edit even better B-e3 instead of charging the c-pawn and you win P-a7 [or else he has to swap off rooks which is insta loss due to all your pawns. and are still in a killer position to march all your pawns up. In that situation you could just give away your knight and bishop and still win easily since you have 4 pawns and she cannot stop them.
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You're up two pieces and a bunch of pawns, and you're threatening her king rather than the other way around. You'd have to make a couple of big mistakes to lose this, so I voted no.
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that is a large amount of material to be behind by and your pawn structure is way better than hers
also it's white's turn according to the image if you can't tell
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white's turn, no way she could win this lol. bitch is bullshitting you about her chess skill
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I like Rb5 to force the rook trade (..Ra8 Bd5 and nowhere to run), but there's honestly not much she can do no matter what you do. Black has zero advantages and opportunities in that position.
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I won my state tourney in Florida a few years ago and although I am no super pro, I would say I am good enough to look at the game and say there is no way she can come back unless you like purposefully make mistakes one after another...
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Canada8031 Posts
You would have to screw up so unbelievably bad to lose that game, so no, she has no chance. Did you save the move list?
Edit: To answer your question, statistically, white wins a little more often than black. Whether or not white actually has a tangible advantage with the first move is a pretty controversial topic though.
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To those who say no to the poll, you forgot to read the word 'theoretically' in the question. A pawn can promote to a queen which should go a long way of winning. Assuming white dumps every piece into black's horse and knight.
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Only a power outage could save her.
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if you move your bishop to d2 you can literally checkmate in as little as 10 moves
nothing she can do
kid is a liar
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I think it's an obvious win for you, even with the slight advantage of white (for low-level players I think this advantage is negligible, for high level players it's something like a 54% advantage) you have a solid lead and she can't argue that the first-move advantage won it for you. She was just dodging the loss. However, I wouldn't bring this up again (if you want to remain friendly) without reason, it sounds like you'll have an angry woman on your hands if you do.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On May 22 2010 04:45 tYsopz wrote:
Only a power outage could save her.
Lol.
On topic: no. You have too much stuff, so as long as you don't make errors...
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On May 22 2010 04:45 Badjas wrote:
To those who say no to the poll, you forgot to read the word 'theoretically' in the question. A pawn can promote to a queen which should go a long way of winning. Assuming white dumps every piece into black's horse and knight.
you are wrong
theoretically he can fuck up, sure, but if he plays perfect he literally can't lose. nothing she can do. she has to hope he fucks up.
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On May 22 2010 04:47 bakesale wrote:
I think it's an obvious win for you, even with the slight advantage of white (for low-level players I think this advantage is negligible, for high level players it's something like a 54% advantage) you have a solid lead and she can't argue that the first-move advantage won it for you. She was just dodging the loss. However, I wouldn't bring this up again (if you want to remain friendly) without reason, it sounds like you'll have an angry woman on your hands if you do.
SLIGHT ADVANTAGE? this is checkmate in 10 moves
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Yo... take a shit on her. She obviously is arrogant enough to be like "w/e man i could've won".
She is literally demeaning you with her actions... dunno about you but I'd take offense to that.
edit:
Being white does have a slight advantage in chess. Although many openings have been devised to gain equality for both black/white.
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I have zero idea how good I am when put against the chess community at large (could beat everyone in my family and class as a kid, was one of he better chess players in this club I was briefly in, got destroyed when I recently played a few very time-restricted matches online) but I think you would have had to make very careless mistakes out of frusteration/cockiness regardless of your opponents' skill. I think even the best of players could only stall an eventual loss here if you play competently.
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probably not even 10 moves if she's as much of an idiot as it sounds. she would probably move a pawn and make it more like 7 moves after getting checked.
tell her she needs to check herself before she wrecks herself
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On May 22 2010 04:49 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 04:47 bakesale wrote:
I think it's an obvious win for you, even with the slight advantage of white (for low-level players I think this advantage is negligible, for high level players it's something like a 54% advantage) you have a solid lead and she can't argue that the first-move advantage won it for you. She was just dodging the loss. However, I wouldn't bring this up again (if you want to remain friendly) without reason, it sounds like you'll have an angry woman on your hands if you do. SLIGHT ADVANTAGE? this is checkmate in 10 moves
He isn't referring to this game in particular. White has a slight advantage in chess in every game is what he is saying.
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i get it after re-reading. i win more as black honestly.
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What? White's won, it's over, black should type out instead of forcing his opponent to kill all his buildings. White is up two pieces and three pawns, white has THREE protected passed pawns, black's king is hopelessly stuck, black has no draw by perpetual check, black has no counter play. Game.
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If she was good enough to get out of this position, she would have been good enough not to get in this position in the first place
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On May 22 2010 04:54 Bill Murray wrote:
i get it after re-reading. i win more as black honestly.
The white advantage isn't a very big deal at low level play.
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this is the list of movements, err history i guess i should say:
1. e2-e3 e7-e6
2. g1-f3 d7-d5
3. b1-c3 c7-c6
4. f1-d3 g8-e7
5. o-o d8-d6
6. e3-e4 b8-d7
7. d1-e2 d6-f4
8. g2-g3 f4-g4
9. f3-d4 d7-e5
10. f2-f3 g4-h3
11. e2-f2 d5xe4
12. f3xe4 e5-g4
13. f2-g2 h3xh2+
14. g2xh2 g4xh2
15. g1xh2 e6-e5
16. d4-f3 c8-g4
17. a2-a4 e7-g6
18. a1-a3 f8-c5
19. d3-c4 o-o
20. a3-b3 g4-e6
21. d2-d3 b7-b5
22. a4xb5 c6xb5
23. b3xb5 c5-d6
24. f3-g5 h7-h6
25. f1-f5 d6-e7
26. b5-a5 h6xg5
27. c1xg5 e7-b4
28. a5xe5 b4-d6
29. e5xe6 a8-d8
30. c3-b5 f7-f6
31. b5xd6 d8-b8
32. e6xf6+ g8-h7
33. f6xf8 g6xf8
but yeah, i was thinkin pretty much the same as all of you guys. i was so sure that there was no way she could win. i know i would've beat her, but was just wondering if a really good player could get back from a situation like this. now i know ;p
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On May 22 2010 04:46 Bill Murray wrote:
if you move your bishop to d2 you can literally checkmate in as little as 10 moves
nothing she can do
kid is a liar
To nitpick, actually the computer is telling me forced mate in 9.
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You need to ask?
Looks, to put this is Starcraft terms, she has one mining base, 50 supply and no bank. You have a 200/200 3/3 ball of your choice and the rest of the map, mostly unsaturated because you have all your supply in military and 6000/4000 in the bank. Can you lose? Yeah I guess, if you never macro and just run your units back and forth across her ramp and lose all of them and do nothing while she seiges every expo. Will you lose? No. No you will not.
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She got to be joking. You have so much material and position advantage that pretty much anyone playing white can win this.
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You are ahead by 2 bishops and 3 pawns. (If it's your opponents turn, they could take your B pawn, but it wouldn't matter) You also have a huuuge positional advantage.
You've won the game... your opponent really can't do anything to you. (Unless you whap your dick on the mouse for each of your moves) I doubt they could even force a draw, unless you seriously screw up.
I highly doubt anyone would be able to win for black at this point.
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Post the force mate moves?
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On May 22 2010 05:00 Ecrilon wrote:
You need to ask?
Looks, to put this is Starcraft terms, she has one mining base, 50 supply and no bank. You have a 200/200 3/3 ball of your choice and the rest of the map, mostly unsaturated because you have all your supply in military and 6000/4000 in the bank. Can you lose? Yeah I guess, if you never macro and just run your units back and forth across her ramp and lose all of them and do nothing while she seiges every expo. Will you lose? No. No you will not.
im loving this analogy.
anyways, case settled. I'm going to show her this thread as evidence, and she'll have nothing to say =)
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On May 22 2010 05:04 nosliw wrote:
Post the force mate moves?
I am not sure if that's possible; black has a lot of potential moves and I don't think black is in any real short-term danger.
Overall, however, once white does bishop d2 or e3 black will be in a hopeless position. The only reason white hasn't won yet is that the white bishop is in an undesirable position. If I were playing this game, I'd attack black's A-lane pawn. With this much material advantage the game will be easily won within 10 turns.
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theoretically she can beat you (she does have a knight and a rook +pawns) but the chances of that are obviously not that high seeing as you have a much better position. she should have just resigned, but she wont admit she lost.
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1. Be3 Rb7 (gives up the knight, defending the pawn and prolonging the struggle)
2. Rxf8 Rc7
3. Bg8+ Kg6 (Kh8 leads to mate in 6)
4. Kh3 Rf7 (any other move leads to mate in 3)
5. Rxf7 a5 (any king move leads to mate in 2)
6. Rf5 a4 (only move)
7. Bf7+ forcing king into mate next round, Kh7 only move
8. Rh5# bank rank mate.
But the point is, even if you don't see this sequence of moves, white is up so much material that he can slowly squeeze the life out of black. Black's lost.
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You don't need to be a rocket scientist for this, you just need to know the rules of chess to realize it...
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On May 22 2010 05:04 nosliw wrote:
Post the force mate moves?
Whenever the computer decides that allowing pieces to be taken for free is the best decision, you know it's over. This is one example of a 9-turn win, but I only let the engine run 18 turns deep. I'm pretty newb at chess in general and don't know much about how engines work, so you don't need to trust my word on this.
34. Bd2 Rb7
35. Rxf8 Rc7
36. Bg8+ Kh8
37. Nf7+ Rxf7
38. Bxf7+ Kg8
39. Bg8+ Kg6
40. Rf5 a6
41. Bf7+ Kg8
42. Rh5#
edit: whoops accidentally put + where I didn't mean to lol
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Two pages and no one has brought up the most important issue yet....
+ Show Spoiler +
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absolutely no way you lose that.
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From what I know about chess she is almost completely screwed, I'm sure there is a way she could win but the chances of her being able to pull it off are slim to none.
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On May 22 2010 05:31 mucker wrote:Two pages and no one has brought up the most important issue yet.... + Show Spoiler +
This is why they're good at chess.
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On May 22 2010 04:55 liaf wrote:
If she was good enough to get out of this position, she would have been good enough not to get in this position in the first place
that's the big crux, in a million years she'd never win this position given how the skill sides look to have developed to this situation.
oh but if based on the topic title, could magnus carlsen beat you in this game? yeah maybe he could
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I played in a club for a few years, solid but not great. Nobody could win this game against me or any other good or even mediocre player. 0%. Not 0.0001%, exactly zero percent, the game is over. This is not Starcraft where you can micro around your units and thus get an advantage. Anand also can only move 1 piece / turn and he has no position or pieces to make good moves. The position is ruined, material has been traded disadvantageous the whole game (I don't know if she tried a checkmate combo and thus lost or how it came). Good chess players would have scooped many turns earlier.
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its also generally bm if you dont resign after losing a piece and not getting any compensation for it.
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United States13143 Posts
It is theoretically possible for her to win if you decide to start handing her pieces.
Past that, no, not really.
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Her skill doesn't matter only yours. There are players who are bad enough to lose this although it's pretty hard without time pressure.
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#1--She's horrible. She's BSing about her skill and showing poor sportsmanship in your game by saying she could win from that position.
#2--As has been said, unless you just start giving away pieces she has no chance to come back, and the same for a strong master. The key would be how well/poorly you play. A queen up in material is just huge at that point and in that position.
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You know in certain areas that don't have a lot of chess players ... she could be the best and still be fairly bad.
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She wouldn't have got this far behind in the first place if you were so bad and she were so good. I say no, for that reason alone.
In any case, it's called forfeiting when you leave the table, so she lost. Call her a faggot noob and enjoy the glory. If she would have stayed in that game, she's basically the equivalent of an eastern pubby terran that hides floating buildings in the corner of the map.
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On May 22 2010 05:00 Ecrilon wrote:
You need to ask?
Looks, to put this is Starcraft terms, she has one mining base, 50 supply and no bank. You have a 200/200 3/3 ball of your choice and the rest of the map, mostly unsaturated because you have all your supply in military and 6000/4000 in the bank. Can you lose? Yeah I guess, if you never macro and just run your units back and forth across her ramp and lose all of them and do nothing while she seiges every expo. Will you lose? No. No you will not.
this.
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The poll responses are not very accurate but being rated 1851 USCF I say 1-0 unless the game is thrown. She is garbage and obviously not good at all if she is losing and also if she considers it to be not completely lost.
As to your question, is white a huge advantage, boils down to equilibrium. In chess an equilibrium is what results from a naturally symmetrical and even position. As white, with the move advantage, the ability to break the equilibrium results in about a 55% win at top level play. Initiative is a strong theme in chess that white is better able to take control of. A win as white or draw as black is considered a success, but at lower levels color is a minor advantage/disadvantage at best. Depending on peoples comfort with openings and positions some even prefer black because they feel at home in the positions they frequently find themselves in.
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if she's good enough to beat you from that far back, she wouldn't have gotten to such an unfavorable position in the first place
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Objectively, White has a heavy advantage and should win it easily. There is no requirement for much accuracy.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
Lol, I love her dodge. Meet up for a group project... haha
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i have been staring at this for 5 minutes. lol. no way to lose this.
edit: wow my suggestion really sucked before reading all the moves before me. shows how much I know. lol.
also: goodjob saving the screenshot, even if she drives a caravan she cannot Dodge this.
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not only do you have a ridiculous material advantage, but your position is also far superior to hers. to top it all off you're the next to move.
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EPT
