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If you don't know what euthanasia is click HERE
After watching Sea inside (watch HERE and summary HERE)I started reflecting upon the issue. At first it seemed like a stupidity. Who the hell wants to die? But then I realized that it could be my parent wanting to die and that euthanasia is some difficult issue. Right now I'm not sure what I could possibly do in a situation like that. On one hand wanting to die seems so irrational and so foolish, but on the other hand considering that a paralyzed person practically hasn't any kind of life you really can start understanding why they want to die. As of now it is one of the few topics I have don't have any opinion on.
 
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Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo.
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I thought this was a blog about the band. 
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Well on the one hand it's your own life so you should be able to do what you want with it but on the other hand their are people who would be pretty upset if you died.
I think it's pretty much for this reason that it's illegal.
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On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote:
Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo.
That doesn't solve anything. Thats like saying "If you don't like euthanasia, then don't get one." Thats like saying "If you don't want a slave, then just don't own one."
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On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote:
Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo.
How can you avoid teenagers exploiting it? The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards - which they wouldn't get the chance to if euthenasie was implemented. Then there is the problem, what if the person can't give his/her consent, but their spouse/kids/familiy tells you that they never wanted to become a vegetable, what do you do then?
It's a very complex problem which I don't really think can be solved by making some general rules. Besides, euthenasia already exists, even in countries where it is forbidden as one could argue that palliativ treatment is in some cases the same as euthenasia as it involves a large dose of morfine which is given even with the knowledge that it'll kill the patient.
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Euthanasia is wrong because it provides a negative effect on the patient's family. When the patient's family makes a decision on whether the patient lives or dies, if they come to regret it later on, there is a significant degree on guilt placed on them. If they don't come to regret it later on, they are no better off than if there wasn't a choice in the first place. Additionally, being presented with such a choice bears an overwhelming emotional burden on a lot of people. It is the duty of the state to make this choice for them so they don't have to make it.
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United States43205 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote:
Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo. How can you avoid teenagers exploiting it? The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards - which they wouldn't get the chance to if euthenasie was implemented. Then there is the problem, what if the person can't give his/her consent, but their spouse/kids/familiy tells you that they never wanted to become a vegetable, what do you do then? It's a very complex problem which I don't really think can be solved by making some general rules. Besides, euthenasia already exists, even in countries where it is forbidden as one could argue that palliativ treatment is in some cases the same as euthenasia as it involves a large dose of morfine which is given even with the knowledge that it'll kill the patient.
The difference between euthenasia and suicide is that euthenasia is generally for people who require assistance offing themselves. If people want to die I don't think they really care what the law has to say about it, they're somewhat beyond that kind of issue if they succeed.
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Euthanasia is great. Kevorkian knew what was up.
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On May 12 2010 08:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote:On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote:
Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo. How can you avoid teenagers exploiting it? The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards - which they wouldn't get the chance to if euthenasie was implemented. Then there is the problem, what if the person can't give his/her consent, but their spouse/kids/familiy tells you that they never wanted to become a vegetable, what do you do then? It's a very complex problem which I don't really think can be solved by making some general rules. Besides, euthenasia already exists, even in countries where it is forbidden as one could argue that palliativ treatment is in some cases the same as euthenasia as it involves a large dose of morfine which is given even with the knowledge that it'll kill the patient. The difference between euthenasia and suicide is that euthenasia is generally for people who require assistance offing themselves. If people want to die I don't think they really care what the law has to say about it, they're somewhat beyond that kind of issue if they succeed.
A) Suiciders are generally terrible at offing themselves.
B) The difference between legal euthanasia and the current state is that a suicider can't demand a doctors help. How would you construct the law so that was still the case after the legalisation of euthenasia?
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On May 12 2010 08:01 sLiniss wrote:
That doesn't solve anything. Thats like saying "If you don't like euthanasia, then don't get one." Thats like saying "If you don't want a slave, then just don't own one."
I think there is a better analogy than this. There is a pretty clear potential for harm to an individual in the case of slavery, whereas the issue with euthanasia is essentially "people might be sad."
It seems to be essentially an issue of suicide. Which, at least in the US, is not a crime. If a person would kill themselves if able, I don't see where the problem is with someone helping them. Oregon and Washington states agree with this idea in certain circumstances, and have safeguards against impulsive decisions and mental instability. I'm mostly thinking of the case of people with severe medical issues, but don't really see why it should be restricted to such cases, provided appropriate safeguards. Again, suicide is not a crime (US, ymmv) and is much easier than convincing someone to help you. And in the case of inability to give consent- that's why it's important to have you affairs in order. Have your wishes documented so it's not an issue for the decision makers.
That said, I think there should be no incentive for the assisting individual (profit, personal involvement, etc). Too easy for coercion to enter into the equation and blur the line with murder. Which is perhaps why it's mostly illegal to begin with; it's a lot easier and less nebulous to say "don't do it" than to say "helper can have nothing to gain."
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On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote:
The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards
How would you know?
I'm sure interviews with people who failed at suicide often have them saying they regret it... and i'm sure they do, after seeing the effects it has on their family first hand, and being told by the doctors, the psychiatrists, and the police how terrible what they were attempting was. However you have no idea what goes through the mind of those killing themselves in that last second.
What you don't realize is that fear of death is such an deeply ingrained part of our instances - fear of being unable to sew our genes - that we come to greatly fear it in other people as well. Humans are especially afraid of the unknown, and so we make a huge deal about death, while other terrible things are done to things "less than" in the eyes of those anti-slavery crusaders, or the war protesters, that it really amazes me.
People who come to convince themselves that they want to die should be allowed to. Better to remove themselves from the world than put any more strain on an environment that can't support them, and especially if they don't want to be here.
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This is one of the things I really don't have an opinion on and really hope there's never a time where I will have to make one. That's not to say I think discussion is pointless, simply a tough choice with compelling arguments on both sides.
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I never agreed with children in china.
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On May 12 2010 09:10 ghermination wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote:
The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards How would you know? I'm sure interviews with people who failed at suicide often have them saying they regret it... and i'm sure they do, after seeing the effects it has on their family first hand, and being told by the doctors, the psychiatrists, and the police how terrible what they were attempting was. However you have no idea what goes through the mind of those killing themselves in that last second. What you don't realize is that fear of death is such an deeply ingrained part of our instances - fear of being unable to sew our genes - that we come to greatly fear it in other people as well. Humans are especially afraid of the unknown, and so we make a huge deal about death, while other terrible things are done to things "less than" in the eyes of those anti-slavery crusaders, or the war protesters, that it really amazes me. People who come to convince themselves that they want to die should be allowed to. Better to remove themselves from the world than put any more strain on an environment that can't support them, and especially if they don't want to be here.
The majority of suiciders fail at the suicide and I treat them afterwards... That would be how I come to know.
Do the succesful suiciders regret? Obviously not, or well - we can't really know, can we? But I've yet to meet a person who didn't regret his/her suicide attempt, and more often than not it's a cry for help (cliche you might say, but the truth nonetheless).
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On May 12 2010 09:06 Ghostcom wrote:
A) Suiciders are generally terrible at offing themselves.
So is suicide not criminalized because "probably nothing will happen"? That seems like shaky justification, if that's the only reason.
On May 12 2010 09:06 Ghostcom wrote:
B) The difference between legal euthanasia and the current state is that a suicider can't demand a doctors help. How would you construct the law so that was still the case after the legalisation of euthenasia?
How would this be any different from the abortion issue? I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can demand an abortion from J. Random Doctor. I imagine that some doctors would be willing to assist, and others would not.
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On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote:
The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards
LOLOL they tell you that?
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On May 12 2010 09:23 allluckysevens7777 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 09:06 Ghostcom wrote:
A) Suiciders are generally terrible at offing themselves.
So is suicide not criminalized because "probably nothing will happen"? That seems like shaky justification, if that's the only reason. Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 09:06 Ghostcom wrote:
B) The difference between legal euthanasia and the current state is that a suicider can't demand a doctors help. How would you construct the law so that was still the case after the legalisation of euthenasia? How would this be any different from the abortion issue? I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can demand an abortion from J. Random Doctor. I imagine that some doctors would be willing to assist, and others would not.
A) That was not what I was saying...
B) It depends on the healthcare system I guess. And I've yet to hear of a hospital which didn't offer abortions in a country where it was legal. Point being, the state will have to make such a "treatment" possible, meaning some doctors will be hired in a position where they have to help sick people who wants to die; this is all fine and I don't think it would be a problem as such to get these doctors. The problem arises when a 18 year old, otherwise healthy, but depressed teenager enters the stage - what is the doctor to do then? The law was obviously not intended to cover these cases, but if he doesn't comply to the teenagers wish, he risks getting fired or sued for not fulfilling his duty.
If you want to parallel it to the abortion law, it is like a couple wanting to get an abortion because a pregnancy test has showed the fetus to be a boy and this couple only wants a girl.... Clearly the law of free abortion before a certain week (depending on country) was never intended to be misused this way.
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On May 12 2010 09:29 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote:
The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards
LOLOL they tell you that?
Yes I can talk with the dead - not all suiciders die, actually it's a minority that does you gravybrain 
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On May 12 2010 08:01 sLiniss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote:
Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo. That doesn't solve anything. Thats like saying "If you don't like euthanasia, then don't get one." Thats like saying "If you don't want a slave, then just don't own one."
Having a right to choose versus having a right to violate rights of somebody else? Horrible example.
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EPT
