• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:38
CEST 14:38
KST 21:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun9[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists20[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
[TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator ASL21 General Discussion JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2339 users

Thoughts on the Beta

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 01:05:49
May 05 2010 00:28 GMT
#1
So, recently a friend of mine got an extra key and gave it to me (thanks btw). So far I've played about 15 ranked matches, including the placement matches, all as Zerg.

Anyway, there are several threads discussing the state of the game right now, and I thought I'd comment on my (admittedly limited) personal experience so far, as well as make some of my own observations.

[D]Zerg Threat in Early Game
When I got into the beta, I really had no idea what was standard. I knew roaches and marauders were popular, and voidray/banshee/reaper/hellion rushes were common. So before I played any ranked games, I familiarized myself with the UI, hotkeys, unit costs/HP/damage/etc. in some 1v1 comp stomps, and came up with a basic build:
-13pool
-15gas
-don't actually know the numbers, but I had it timed so that my inject larva and roach den would finish just as I had enough min/gas/supply to build 6 roaches
-afterward, second gas/lair/macro/expo.
I would make a few lings for scouting, and I always send my first 2 lings to the watchtowers. I'm surprised this isn't done more often. You see everything coming your way.

I used this build for ZvT and ZvZ, and for ZvP I just kind of got speedlings and went from there, which usually resulted in mass hydra/muta on 2 base.

Of course, now I've read a bit on the SC2 strategy forum, I'm pretty sure that build qualifies as a "roach rush," which brings me to my first thought:

The way the game is played now is nothing like how it will be played in even one year. Currently, many players are just figuring out some "XXX unit rush" build, and going with it. They'll see what it works against, what it doesn't work against, and what timings are involved, and they'll develop better builds as a result. This is already happening. Against gold players, every game I've played has been me fending off some type of rush (voidray, banshee, proxy 2gate...). Against platinum players, it's been 50/50 between some well-executed rush and a macro build.

The biggest possible exception to the italicized statement IMO is Zerg. They really don't have many viable opening options. One reason is limited unit compositions before lair tech. One reason is great walling/defensive abilities of the other races. One big reason IMO is that, while Terran and Protoss have units that they can "rush" and be effective with (one or two unanswered banshees/voidrays/whatevers can be gg), Zerg doesn't have anything like this. Three mutas are an annoyance at best, and T and P will already have the infrastructure to deal with them, or at least minimize the damage. The difference is, to harass as Zerg, you need lots of units, which requires lots of economic strength, especially gas. Players are gas-starved in SC2 more than in BW. While a couple hundred gas can put together a rush for T or P, Zerg needs lots more, which can't be done on one base, nor can it be done in a timely fashion.

However, I'm not saying that's a problem. Zerg doesn't really have a whole lot of rushes in its arsenal in BW either. But part of it is the way the opponent plays. And I think that'll change over time. Namely, once Zerg players are able to consistently stop rush builds from Protoss and Terran, while pursuing a strong economic opening, Protoss and Terran will have no choice but to FE themselves to keep up economically.

So, continuing my story, I went 4-1 in placement matches and got placed in gold. The game I lost was to a voidray rush, that I could have won, but I didn't know that any two buildings next to each-other made a ling-tight wall. That's really too bad. Had I known that, I would have just run past his cannons and destroyed his main, but I got greedy and thought I could win it right there. Also, cannons have 300 life now? Wow. It's needed because roaches do so much damage, but it makes lings pretty worthless against them.

Anyway, after those matches, I watched Artotis' stream. And it was awesome. He played some great games on the Asia server, as Zerg, and answered questions afterward. Very informative. The biggest thing I learned is that FE is still an option for Zerg.

So, FE is viable it seems (I mean, I assume Artosis knows what he's doing, and that's what he does). And as I've said, T and P will need to FE themselves to keep up eventually. But the question is, will they be able to keep up even then? IMO, Queen is much, much stronger macro tool than MULE or Chrono. I think T and P will have to FE while still pressuring the Zerg with aggressive tech timings, harass, or both, otherwise Zerg will just out-power them. Droning up is so easy in SC2, that in fact, watching replays of myself, I usually end games with 80+ drones. It's so easy I've been making too many! But I was a macro-whore in BW too. With the Queen as strong as it is, I think Zerg might become dominant too easily if they had more options available early.

MBS/Automine
MBS is fine I think. Personally, I still hotkey each hatch separately, since I'm so used to using them like location keys from BW. Automine, I guess it's a necessary evil to keep up with the times, and other than being bored for the first minute of the game, I still find myself with lots to do, due to the new macro mechanics.

Oh Micro, Where Art Thou?
I'm not really sure what to say here. Micro is much easier due to smartcasting, though I don't have much experience with that first-hand. If you don't include army positioning as part of micro, then it's a strong argument, as there's really not a whole lot to do other than put your units in the right spot/formation and attack. After that, you micro the units you have to keep them alive as long as possible, by pulling back lings that have taken 2 zealot hits, forming a concave in ranged vs melee battles, etc. But I think the fact that melee units aren't used as much makes most games just a range vs range battle, and there's not a whole lot to do there it seems.
Unit AI is pretty smart nowadays. Avoiding overkill (I haven't witnessed this myself, but I've heard about it), and quick surrounds both contribute to quicker battles, and more difficulty retreating from bad situations, leading to more one-sided battles if you get caught with the wrong unit combination.

edit: regarding micro, immediately after writing this I saw this thread, and though some of the things mentioned are actually pretty basic, there's a couple interesting things in there. So I guess there are some "tricks" found already. Good news.

Zerg Unit Diversity
Before I got into the beta, watching the occasional stream, it looked like Zerg was all about mass roach, mass hydra, or a combination of the two. So far, for me at least, it kind of is, but I haven't found it to be a problem so far at least. It could get boring quite easily. Overall, I think Zerg could be improved on, and before I heard of the release date I was expecting a major overhaul. That said it's not bad. What would I change? Offhand, I'd consider
1. making the Queen a less powerful macro tool,
2. giving them more viable pre-lair options that get around a blocked ramp and/or harassment options that cost <300 gas to initiate,
3. giving them a cost-effective early/mid-game anti-air option besides hydra
4. making hive tech more attractive
5. giving them another spell-caster besides infestor
6. changing at least one of the infestor's spells
I'll stop there.

Ranking System
I'd prefer a much more unified ranking system. One that allows players to make inter-division and inter-league comparisons. Why are there hundreds of "Platinum League #1's?" Who's actually #1? How does a 2000 gold player measure up against a 1250 platinum player?

Is it fun? Yes (at least for now). The matchmaking is great too, so that players can have fun against similarly skilled opponents.
Is the skill ceiling high enough? Yes, I think so.
Great spectator sport? ... It's fun to watch replays, that's for sure, since they're like FPVoDs and so comprehensive. I'm confident there will be PLAGUU!! and Rebo-Rebo-Rebo moments, as players refine builds to the point where one important unit sniped or well-cast spell is a big deal. I guess, yeah, it'll be a good spectator sport, as long as players and mapmakers are willing to innovate, and Blizzard is willing to make balance changes every once in a while.

Really, only time will tell, but those are my thoughts as of now. I'll probably read this a year from now and laugh at how wrong I was.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Gabe
12:00
Big Gabe Open #1
mouzHeroMarine397
IndyStarCraft 93
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 397
Ryung 269
IndyStarCraft 93
herO (SOOP) 29
Rex 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4328
Sea 2442
Jaedong 1329
HiyA 1084
EffOrt 721
Hyuk 472
Soma 358
Stork 348
Snow 302
Light 259
[ Show more ]
actioN 246
ggaemo 226
Zeus 190
Last 167
Soulkey 164
ToSsGirL 157
ZerO 151
Rush 146
firebathero 127
Larva 72
Pusan 68
hero 67
Sharp 58
sSak 47
yabsab 35
Barracks 33
Backho 32
Free 26
Sacsri 24
Shine 22
Terrorterran 21
soO 17
Bale 17
sorry 17
Movie 16
Noble 14
Sexy 13
IntoTheRainbow 13
Shinee 12
Mini 10
GoRush 10
scan(afreeca) 9
Dota 2
XaKoH 474
ODPixel98
BananaSlamJamma86
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2910
x6flipin593
zeus589
markeloff149
edward66
Other Games
singsing1887
B2W.Neo1308
Lowko400
DeMusliM295
crisheroes278
hiko266
Livibee30
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 749
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 173
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream66
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV328
League of Legends
• Jankos1260
• TFBlade1170
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
20h 22m
Escore
21h 22m
OSC
1d
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
1d 22h
IPSL
2 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
IPSL
3 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-28
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.