• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:59
CEST 17:59
KST 00:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies18Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !18Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes
Brood War
General
25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview vespene.gg — BW replays in browser [ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies UA StarCraft: Mawin (T) vs hanniGan (P) Showmatch
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
[G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Organizations: Raisi…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1513 users

Thoughts on the Beta

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 01:05:49
May 05 2010 00:28 GMT
#1
So, recently a friend of mine got an extra key and gave it to me (thanks btw). So far I've played about 15 ranked matches, including the placement matches, all as Zerg.

Anyway, there are several threads discussing the state of the game right now, and I thought I'd comment on my (admittedly limited) personal experience so far, as well as make some of my own observations.

[D]Zerg Threat in Early Game
When I got into the beta, I really had no idea what was standard. I knew roaches and marauders were popular, and voidray/banshee/reaper/hellion rushes were common. So before I played any ranked games, I familiarized myself with the UI, hotkeys, unit costs/HP/damage/etc. in some 1v1 comp stomps, and came up with a basic build:
-13pool
-15gas
-don't actually know the numbers, but I had it timed so that my inject larva and roach den would finish just as I had enough min/gas/supply to build 6 roaches
-afterward, second gas/lair/macro/expo.
I would make a few lings for scouting, and I always send my first 2 lings to the watchtowers. I'm surprised this isn't done more often. You see everything coming your way.

I used this build for ZvT and ZvZ, and for ZvP I just kind of got speedlings and went from there, which usually resulted in mass hydra/muta on 2 base.

Of course, now I've read a bit on the SC2 strategy forum, I'm pretty sure that build qualifies as a "roach rush," which brings me to my first thought:

The way the game is played now is nothing like how it will be played in even one year. Currently, many players are just figuring out some "XXX unit rush" build, and going with it. They'll see what it works against, what it doesn't work against, and what timings are involved, and they'll develop better builds as a result. This is already happening. Against gold players, every game I've played has been me fending off some type of rush (voidray, banshee, proxy 2gate...). Against platinum players, it's been 50/50 between some well-executed rush and a macro build.

The biggest possible exception to the italicized statement IMO is Zerg. They really don't have many viable opening options. One reason is limited unit compositions before lair tech. One reason is great walling/defensive abilities of the other races. One big reason IMO is that, while Terran and Protoss have units that they can "rush" and be effective with (one or two unanswered banshees/voidrays/whatevers can be gg), Zerg doesn't have anything like this. Three mutas are an annoyance at best, and T and P will already have the infrastructure to deal with them, or at least minimize the damage. The difference is, to harass as Zerg, you need lots of units, which requires lots of economic strength, especially gas. Players are gas-starved in SC2 more than in BW. While a couple hundred gas can put together a rush for T or P, Zerg needs lots more, which can't be done on one base, nor can it be done in a timely fashion.

However, I'm not saying that's a problem. Zerg doesn't really have a whole lot of rushes in its arsenal in BW either. But part of it is the way the opponent plays. And I think that'll change over time. Namely, once Zerg players are able to consistently stop rush builds from Protoss and Terran, while pursuing a strong economic opening, Protoss and Terran will have no choice but to FE themselves to keep up economically.

So, continuing my story, I went 4-1 in placement matches and got placed in gold. The game I lost was to a voidray rush, that I could have won, but I didn't know that any two buildings next to each-other made a ling-tight wall. That's really too bad. Had I known that, I would have just run past his cannons and destroyed his main, but I got greedy and thought I could win it right there. Also, cannons have 300 life now? Wow. It's needed because roaches do so much damage, but it makes lings pretty worthless against them.

Anyway, after those matches, I watched Artotis' stream. And it was awesome. He played some great games on the Asia server, as Zerg, and answered questions afterward. Very informative. The biggest thing I learned is that FE is still an option for Zerg.

So, FE is viable it seems (I mean, I assume Artosis knows what he's doing, and that's what he does). And as I've said, T and P will need to FE themselves to keep up eventually. But the question is, will they be able to keep up even then? IMO, Queen is much, much stronger macro tool than MULE or Chrono. I think T and P will have to FE while still pressuring the Zerg with aggressive tech timings, harass, or both, otherwise Zerg will just out-power them. Droning up is so easy in SC2, that in fact, watching replays of myself, I usually end games with 80+ drones. It's so easy I've been making too many! But I was a macro-whore in BW too. With the Queen as strong as it is, I think Zerg might become dominant too easily if they had more options available early.

MBS/Automine
MBS is fine I think. Personally, I still hotkey each hatch separately, since I'm so used to using them like location keys from BW. Automine, I guess it's a necessary evil to keep up with the times, and other than being bored for the first minute of the game, I still find myself with lots to do, due to the new macro mechanics.

Oh Micro, Where Art Thou?
I'm not really sure what to say here. Micro is much easier due to smartcasting, though I don't have much experience with that first-hand. If you don't include army positioning as part of micro, then it's a strong argument, as there's really not a whole lot to do other than put your units in the right spot/formation and attack. After that, you micro the units you have to keep them alive as long as possible, by pulling back lings that have taken 2 zealot hits, forming a concave in ranged vs melee battles, etc. But I think the fact that melee units aren't used as much makes most games just a range vs range battle, and there's not a whole lot to do there it seems.
Unit AI is pretty smart nowadays. Avoiding overkill (I haven't witnessed this myself, but I've heard about it), and quick surrounds both contribute to quicker battles, and more difficulty retreating from bad situations, leading to more one-sided battles if you get caught with the wrong unit combination.

edit: regarding micro, immediately after writing this I saw this thread, and though some of the things mentioned are actually pretty basic, there's a couple interesting things in there. So I guess there are some "tricks" found already. Good news.

Zerg Unit Diversity
Before I got into the beta, watching the occasional stream, it looked like Zerg was all about mass roach, mass hydra, or a combination of the two. So far, for me at least, it kind of is, but I haven't found it to be a problem so far at least. It could get boring quite easily. Overall, I think Zerg could be improved on, and before I heard of the release date I was expecting a major overhaul. That said it's not bad. What would I change? Offhand, I'd consider
1. making the Queen a less powerful macro tool,
2. giving them more viable pre-lair options that get around a blocked ramp and/or harassment options that cost <300 gas to initiate,
3. giving them a cost-effective early/mid-game anti-air option besides hydra
4. making hive tech more attractive
5. giving them another spell-caster besides infestor
6. changing at least one of the infestor's spells
I'll stop there.

Ranking System
I'd prefer a much more unified ranking system. One that allows players to make inter-division and inter-league comparisons. Why are there hundreds of "Platinum League #1's?" Who's actually #1? How does a 2000 gold player measure up against a 1250 platinum player?

Is it fun? Yes (at least for now). The matchmaking is great too, so that players can have fun against similarly skilled opponents.
Is the skill ceiling high enough? Yes, I think so.
Great spectator sport? ... It's fun to watch replays, that's for sure, since they're like FPVoDs and so comprehensive. I'm confident there will be PLAGUU!! and Rebo-Rebo-Rebo moments, as players refine builds to the point where one important unit sniped or well-cast spell is a big deal. I guess, yeah, it'll be a good spectator sport, as long as players and mapmakers are willing to innovate, and Blizzard is willing to make balance changes every once in a while.

Really, only time will tell, but those are my thoughts as of now. I'll probably read this a year from now and laugh at how wrong I was.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Showmatch
15:00
Shopify Rebellion Sunday #2
YoungYakov vs SpeCial
Scarlett vs GuMihoLIVE!
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Harstem426
LamboSC2196
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 478
LamboSC2 223
elazer 219
ProTech84
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 54574
EffOrt 1242
Mini 812
firebathero 292
ggaemo 271
actioN 257
Last 104
Zeus 93
Hyun 77
Sea.KH 53
[ Show more ]
Barracks 31
Terrorterran 30
Nal_rA 22
EG.Machine 21
910 21
Dewaltoss 19
Rock 18
GoRush 17
Sacsri 15
Sexy 14
IntoTheRainbow 12
Movie 11
Dota 2
Gorgc9220
Dendi1074
Counter-Strike
byalli544
fl0m40
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor201
Other Games
FrodaN2634
singsing2299
Liquid`RaSZi1407
B2W.Neo1135
Hui .261
Happy234
KnowMe179
crisheroes148
XaKoH 145
Beastyqt140
Liquid`VortiX31
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV407
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1258
League of Legends
• Jankos2018
• Nemesis1958
Other Games
• WagamamaTV279
• Shiphtur143
Upcoming Events
BSL
3h 1m
DragOn vs Dewalt
TerrOr vs OyAji
Patches Events
3h 31m
OSC
8h 1m
Universe Titan Cup
19h 1m
Rogue vs Percival
Wardi Open
20h 1m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
GSL
2 days
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
3 days
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
Replay Cast
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs Rogue
IPSL
6 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W8
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.