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So I was watching Day[9] Daily yesterday (like any good sc2 newbie) and it caught my attention that he was reviewing a replay pack of Nony using Phoenixes in PvP/T/Z. I decided "hmm maybe i should write this down for future reference."
So i took note of the build order and specifics as best as i could and came up with this build order for steppes of war (if you don't care so much about it, stop reading here):
Opening:
10 pylon/gate
13 gas
@ gateway completion (when 150 are available): cybernetics core
15 (or 16, i didnt really get a good look) pylon
19 gas?
(another deviation on opening can be 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas 16 pylon 17 core 19 gas, then make zealot and a sentry)
- make 1 zealot
- by the time zealot is out, core should be finished
-make sentry and upgrade warpgate
- make another zealot
@ 150 gas (after opponent's scout is dead): stargate
- make 1 stalker before stargate completion
- place another gateway down after stargate
@ stargate completion: make chronoboosted phoenixes.
- between 3rd and 4th phoenix put down a forge.
*note: make sure to keep producing zealots/sentries from warpgates.
as soon as your 4th phoenix is out, you can go ahead and push out. Use your 4 phoenixes to swing around to the back of your opponents base to harass the probe line (aim for gas probes if you can).
pre-push: place a cannon near your ramp (should your opponent go dt's) and then as you push, you should expand.
transition: from here on, I've only seen 1 transition from nony: get phoenixes until u have 7 or 8, then add void ray and a 2nd stargate and transition into mass void ray. Get +1 air attack for your air units, and after it finishes, push out. When you push out, you should take your 3rd base (or it should already be done).
when attacking your opponent on steppes of war (should he have his natural up), it is best to attack with your air units from behind the nat, because it gives you a bit of a positional advantage. (plus if you attack from the front with a ground force, you can sort of pin your opponent's nat).
Notes/deviations:
- Instead of going zealot/sentry/zealot from your gateway, u can go stalker/zealot in order to get a ranged unit to kill the scout earlier, so the stargate goes down earlier.
- I'm not sure how exactly this would fare should the opponent go 2 stargate void rays.
- The buildup of phoenixes early on can prove advantageous to builds that rely on early colossi.
I have yet to try this build on b-net, but im more set on looking to see if there can be more transitions that are effective besides 2stargate void rays (there most likely are, and that nony already has them worked out, and we just havent seen them yet)
edit: thanks to a friendly reminder from Nony i will add that:
for scouting purposes: send the phoenix to your opponent's base. Depending on what you see, it will determine whether or not you will need the forge.
also: If you want to keep your phoenix count a secret from your opponent, hide your phoenixes elsewhere around the time your 3rd phoenix pops out (thats when the observer should get to your base).
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8751 Posts
My latest policy is to scout with the first Phoenix and not blindly go Forge, but that could change and it could also depend on the map and what I've scouted of my opponent up to that point. There are like a million variables that can be tweaked so just try to be aware of as much as possible, never feel like you are locked in to something, whenever you change something try to be aware of every effect that it has, etc etc. GL =]
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On April 27 2010 10:05 Liquid`NonY wrote:
My latest policy is to scout with the first Phoenix and not blindly go Forge, but that could change and it could also depend on the map and what I've scouted of my opponent up to that point. There are like a million variables that can be tweaked so just try to be aware of as much as possible, never feel like you are locked in to something, whenever you change something try to be aware of every effect that it has, etc etc. GL =]
yeah i forgot to mention the scouting with first phoenix in my additional notes, but thanks for reminding me. Also, thanks for the feedback =)
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NONY YOU ARE A CREATIVE BEAST
I literally shaked when i saw the fist game vs moonglade
@NonY:
God bless you
You make me feel brand new
For God blessed me with you
You make me feel brand new
I sing this song cause you
Make me feel brand new
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I loved that rep pack so much. Having a bunch of phoenix early game seems amazingly powerful, it's quite nice seeing nony lift up 10 units at once and turning a fight into a 1 sided massacre
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On April 27 2010 10:11 never_toss wrote:
NONY YOU ARE A CREATIVE BEAST
I literally shaked shook when i saw the fist game vs moonglade
@NonY:
God bless you
You make me feel brand new
For God blessed me with you
You make me feel brand new
I sing this song cause you
Make me feel brand new
Let's just leave it at that.
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I know you can't lift up massive units, but can you lift up a siege tank that's in siege mode? I think that would be useful against Terran.
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Nony you pawned that War craft noob easily! He wasn't even close to as good as you! I can't wait to see more of your awesome phoenix micro! Also, please teach Incontrol, he needs it(especially after that humiliating loss against Liquid' Nazgul)
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shall we name it the NonY build? lol
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On April 27 2010 11:26 3FFA wrote:
Nony you pawned that War craft noob easily! He wasn't even close to as good as you! I can't wait to see more of your awesome phoenix micro! Also, please teach Incontrol, he needs it(especially after that humiliating loss against Liquid' Nazgul)
lol
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On April 27 2010 10:00 blahman3344 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So I was watching Day[9] Daily yesterday (like any good sc2 newbie) and it caught my attention that he was reviewing a replay pack of Nony using Phoenixes in PvP/T/Z. I decided "hmm maybe i should write this down for future reference."
So i took note of the build order and specifics as best as i could and came up with this build order for steppes of war (if you don't care so much about it, stop reading here):
Opening:
10 pylon/gate
13 gas
@ gateway completion (when 150 are available): cybernetics core
15 (or 16, i didnt really get a good look) pylon
19 gas?
(another deviation on opening can be 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas 16 pylon 17 core 19 gas, then make zealot and a sentry)
- make 1 zealot
- by the time zealot is out, core should be finished
-make sentry and upgrade warpgate
- make another zealot
@ 150 gas (after opponent's scout is dead): stargate
- make 1 stalker before stargate completion
- place another gateway down after stargate
@ stargate completion: make chronoboosted phoenixes.
- between 3rd and 4th phoenix put down a forge.
*note: make sure to keep producing zealots/sentries from warpgates.
as soon as your 4th phoenix is out, you can go ahead and push out. Use your 4 phoenixes to swing around to the back of your opponents base to harass the probe line (aim for gas probes if you can).
pre-push: place a cannon near your ramp (should your opponent go dt's) and then as you push, you should expand.
transition: from here on, I've only seen 1 transition from nony: get phoenixes until u have 7 or 8, then add void ray and a 2nd stargate and transition into mass void ray. Get +1 air attack for your air units, and after it finishes, push out. When you push out, you should take your 3rd base (or it should already be done).
when attacking your opponent on steppes of war (should he have his natural up), it is best to attack with your air units from behind the nat, because it gives you a bit of a positional advantage. (plus if you attack from the front with a ground force, you can sort of pin your opponent's nat).
Notes/deviations:
- Instead of going zealot/sentry/zealot from your gateway, u can go stalker/zealot in order to get a ranged unit to kill the scout earlier, so the stargate goes down earlier.
- I'm not sure how exactly this would fare should the opponent go 2 stargate void rays.
- The buildup of phoenixes early on can prove advantageous to builds that rely on early colossi.
I have yet to try this build on b-net, but im more set on looking to see if there can be more transitions that are effective besides 2stargate void rays (there most likely are, and that nony already has them worked out, and we just havent seen them yet)
edit: thanks to a friendly reminder from Nony i will add that:
for scouting purposes: send the phoenix to your opponent's base. Depending on what you see, it will determine whether or not you will need the forge.
also: If you want to keep your phoenix count a secret from your opponent, hide your phoenixes elsewhere around the time your 3rd phoenix pops out (thats when the observer should get to your base).
Replay ASAP please :D
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On April 27 2010 11:53 Re-Play- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 10:00 blahman3344 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So I was watching Day[9] Daily yesterday (like any good sc2 newbie) and it caught my attention that he was reviewing a replay pack of Nony using Phoenixes in PvP/T/Z. I decided "hmm maybe i should write this down for future reference."
So i took note of the build order and specifics as best as i could and came up with this build order for steppes of war (if you don't care so much about it, stop reading here):
Opening:
10 pylon/gate
13 gas
@ gateway completion (when 150 are available): cybernetics core
15 (or 16, i didnt really get a good look) pylon
19 gas?
(another deviation on opening can be 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas 16 pylon 17 core 19 gas, then make zealot and a sentry)
- make 1 zealot
- by the time zealot is out, core should be finished
-make sentry and upgrade warpgate
- make another zealot
@ 150 gas (after opponent's scout is dead): stargate
- make 1 stalker before stargate completion
- place another gateway down after stargate
@ stargate completion: make chronoboosted phoenixes.
- between 3rd and 4th phoenix put down a forge.
*note: make sure to keep producing zealots/sentries from warpgates.
as soon as your 4th phoenix is out, you can go ahead and push out. Use your 4 phoenixes to swing around to the back of your opponents base to harass the probe line (aim for gas probes if you can).
pre-push: place a cannon near your ramp (should your opponent go dt's) and then as you push, you should expand.
transition: from here on, I've only seen 1 transition from nony: get phoenixes until u have 7 or 8, then add void ray and a 2nd stargate and transition into mass void ray. Get +1 air attack for your air units, and after it finishes, push out. When you push out, you should take your 3rd base (or it should already be done).
when attacking your opponent on steppes of war (should he have his natural up), it is best to attack with your air units from behind the nat, because it gives you a bit of a positional advantage. (plus if you attack from the front with a ground force, you can sort of pin your opponent's nat).
Notes/deviations:
- Instead of going zealot/sentry/zealot from your gateway, u can go stalker/zealot in order to get a ranged unit to kill the scout earlier, so the stargate goes down earlier.
- I'm not sure how exactly this would fare should the opponent go 2 stargate void rays.
- The buildup of phoenixes early on can prove advantageous to builds that rely on early colossi.
I have yet to try this build on b-net, but im more set on looking to see if there can be more transitions that are effective besides 2stargate void rays (there most likely are, and that nony already has them worked out, and we just havent seen them yet)
edit: thanks to a friendly reminder from Nony i will add that:
for scouting purposes: send the phoenix to your opponent's base. Depending on what you see, it will determine whether or not you will need the forge.
also: If you want to keep your phoenix count a secret from your opponent, hide your phoenixes elsewhere around the time your 3rd phoenix pops out (thats when the observer should get to your base). Replay ASAP please :D
nony has already released his replay pack.
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Thanks to nony and another protoss I have started using phoenixes more in matchups with pretty good success. I find that going 1 gate phoenix into FE colossi/stalker is pretty good vs zerg if you timings are on and you are proactive with harassment.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2010 12:01 DrivE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 11:53 Re-Play- wrote:On April 27 2010 10:00 blahman3344 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So I was watching Day[9] Daily yesterday (like any good sc2 newbie) and it caught my attention that he was reviewing a replay pack of Nony using Phoenixes in PvP/T/Z. I decided "hmm maybe i should write this down for future reference."
So i took note of the build order and specifics as best as i could and came up with this build order for steppes of war (if you don't care so much about it, stop reading here):
Opening:
10 pylon/gate
13 gas
@ gateway completion (when 150 are available): cybernetics core
15 (or 16, i didnt really get a good look) pylon
19 gas?
(another deviation on opening can be 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas 16 pylon 17 core 19 gas, then make zealot and a sentry)
- make 1 zealot
- by the time zealot is out, core should be finished
-make sentry and upgrade warpgate
- make another zealot
@ 150 gas (after opponent's scout is dead): stargate
- make 1 stalker before stargate completion
- place another gateway down after stargate
@ stargate completion: make chronoboosted phoenixes.
- between 3rd and 4th phoenix put down a forge.
*note: make sure to keep producing zealots/sentries from warpgates.
as soon as your 4th phoenix is out, you can go ahead and push out. Use your 4 phoenixes to swing around to the back of your opponents base to harass the probe line (aim for gas probes if you can).
pre-push: place a cannon near your ramp (should your opponent go dt's) and then as you push, you should expand.
transition: from here on, I've only seen 1 transition from nony: get phoenixes until u have 7 or 8, then add void ray and a 2nd stargate and transition into mass void ray. Get +1 air attack for your air units, and after it finishes, push out. When you push out, you should take your 3rd base (or it should already be done).
when attacking your opponent on steppes of war (should he have his natural up), it is best to attack with your air units from behind the nat, because it gives you a bit of a positional advantage. (plus if you attack from the front with a ground force, you can sort of pin your opponent's nat).
Notes/deviations:
- Instead of going zealot/sentry/zealot from your gateway, u can go stalker/zealot in order to get a ranged unit to kill the scout earlier, so the stargate goes down earlier.
- I'm not sure how exactly this would fare should the opponent go 2 stargate void rays.
- The buildup of phoenixes early on can prove advantageous to builds that rely on early colossi.
I have yet to try this build on b-net, but im more set on looking to see if there can be more transitions that are effective besides 2stargate void rays (there most likely are, and that nony already has them worked out, and we just havent seen them yet)
edit: thanks to a friendly reminder from Nony i will add that:
for scouting purposes: send the phoenix to your opponent's base. Depending on what you see, it will determine whether or not you will need the forge.
also: If you want to keep your phoenix count a secret from your opponent, hide your phoenixes elsewhere around the time your 3rd phoenix pops out (thats when the observer should get to your base). Replay ASAP please :D
nony has already released his replay pack.
link pls?
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I've been watching some of the replay pack, mostly to see if I can pick anything up. (Sadly my play just isn't up to snuff at all) And one thing seemed to stand out to me, that was a lot of the replays were v P with very few v Z and v T. Is the phoenix build (A.K.A Nony Build) something that is best suited to a PvP? If so how could it be worked to be effected against T and Z?
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How well can this work against a 4-Gate build, especially on maps with back doors into the main, or is it best to not try on those maps?
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Can someone link the replay pack please ^_^
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I remembered watching nony in his stream do one of the games in the rep pack and being in shock at how he rolled over the other protoss so easily. Quite amazing.
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blahman, when ap's over, we're going back to good old mass pvp days =]
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
OMG where is the link to the replays ????
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On April 27 2010 13:17 supernovamaniac wrote:
blahman, when ap's over, we're going back to good old mass pvp days =]
lol, well for me, its not over after APs. (remember, lit test ._.)
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oh wow. PvP using phoenixes
interesting
will try out
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hmm.. i got that replay bug so i cant watch replays. i saw that day9 has two of them on his stream.. but there is no link there.. where can i see them?
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So would you expand while pushing forward or stay at 1 base?
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EPT
