• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:24
CEST 20:24
KST 03:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over0New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!36Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BW General Discussion Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Browser Invoker Combo Trainer & Speedrun Simulator Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5874 users

BGH FFA (inspired by TL's scavenger hunt)

Blogs > crate
Post a Reply
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:37:50
April 20 2010 00:31 GMT
#1
The Oberlin CSL team practiced for their games in the end of the season by ... playing BGH FFAs (we actually did better once we started doing this, so there may be something to this method!)

There's some replays at the end of the post.

Watching the stream of the FFA has immediately taught me one thing: most people don't know how ridiculously awesome scout/arbiter is when you have infinite money and attacking early means you die.

There is no counter to scout/arbiter. Air units? Yeah, right.... The only one that could work (unless you snipe all the observers and use cloaked wraiths AND your opponent doesn't just recall away from your wraiths) is valkyries but they don't shoot on BGH 90% of the time because of the sprite limit. Even if you have a far superior force half of it ends up frozen in blue crystals while the other half gets raped by missiles of doom for more than 30 explosive damage per attack. It turns out this even wins vs muta/devourer, even when outnumbered.

Ground units? No, they don't work either. In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off. Even goliaths end up losing since you stasis half the goliaths (and you can't EMP arbiters when scouts vaporize any science vessels with the same area code) and then you have four times as many scouts attacking as goliaths attacking because you have half of the un-stasis'd ones too far away to attack. Don't even think about trying hydras or dragoons.

Even if goliaths do win vs scout/arbiter, they're never going to break your cannons, so you can just ignore the goliaths. The cannons you'll have because it's BGH and you can build a million cannons with your billion extra minerals because you're going scout/arbiter off three gas.

Storm doesn't work because scouts move too fast and they have tons of HP. The only thing that beats scout/arbiter is ... scout/arbiter!

(Post inspired by me holding off a 180 food Z army and a 190 food battlecruiser army simultaneously, then another 180 food zerg army right afterward, then losing because carriers suck (I should have just stuck with scouts)).

Also, going scout/arbiter means you can do this:
[image loading]

Replays:

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34546 (this is the one that shows real scout/arbiter play and me switching to carriers then instantly losing because I lose my carriers because they suck. I'm yellow.)

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34547 (this is just generally entertaining; I noticed my scouts were better than my carriers. Also features nukes. And turrets.)

I should start using recall more, it means your already-mobile army is never caught out of position.

*****
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
April 20 2010 00:37 GMT
#2
With Vessel support Goliaths can go toe to toe depending on how well you focus fire and ect but if they screw up their building placement there gonna bleed stuff. IMO the best counter is sick sick lag
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:58:13
April 20 2010 00:57 GMT
#3
Goon/Arb rapes scout/arb.
In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off.

Because of this very same fact, they get completely dominated by stasis by anyone competent. You will stasis far less of their army than them yours, not to mention the fact that they will have more goons than your scouts anyways because of the supply dfiference.
And as for Z, hydra/swarm will dominate it as well. I don't know why you would go air vs scouts since that is the only thing they are good against. You can't possible stasis the entire zerg army if they throw in lings in there as well as keep up with their macro.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
April 20 2010 01:05 GMT
#4
Day[9] agrees with you. Scouts are fucking amazing on BGH
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:06 GMT
#5
That army I stasis'd was pretty close to 200/200 and had lings in there too (I think. I know he had lots of lings earlier, anyway.)

I've never had success with ground armies in BGH FFA myself (not like I'm really a pro on the subject though).

I really didn't think about goon/arb (probably because none of the times I played vs P did that P use arbiters), that probably does work if you can get your arbiters in past cannons to recall. Otherwise you can win vs the scouts but you can't attack the P base because scouts + cannons > goons.

Of course it really comes down to the fact that arbiters are kind of imba on BGH in general.

This post wasn't meant to be entirely serious (I'd guess you understood that much though).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 20 2010 01:27 GMT
#6
I can make scvs faster than scouts can kill them.

Though the ffa wasn't meant to be serious. With 7 players, there was always going to be inequality of starting position, as promptly demonstrated by White.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9812 Posts
April 20 2010 01:46 GMT
#7
yeah seriously, white should have won that game at least half an hour earlier than he did. imo if red proxy gated teal they'd be about even.
boomer hands
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:48 GMT
#8
I didn't actually watch the whole TL beta key FFA (mainly since my internet doesn't play nice with watching live streams). I'm planning on at least skimming them later on though.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#61
RotterdaM1001
TKL 316
IndyStarCraft 249
SteadfastSC183
BRAT_OK 123
ZombieGrub93
kabyraGe 69
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1001
TKL 316
IndyStarCraft 249
SteadfastSC 183
MaxPax 124
BRAT_OK 123
ZombieGrub93
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3777
Shuttle 879
HiyA 156
Horang2 146
Dewaltoss 124
Hyun 44
Hm[arnc] 21
Aegong 20
soO 15
Free 10
[ Show more ]
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc5022
Counter-Strike
fl0m4714
x6flipin1786
pashabiceps1447
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby1681
Liquid`Hasu204
MindelVK11
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi2638
Beastyqt798
XaKoH 201
ArmadaUGS147
C9.Mang0118
Trikslyr72
QueenE40
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV34
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 32
• Reevou 8
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2102
• TFBlade1227
Other Games
• imaqtpie1348
• Shiphtur332
Upcoming Events
GSL
16h 36m
OSC
18h 36m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 5h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
OSC
5 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.