• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:19
CEST 08:19
KST 15:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1005.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Server Blocker Stellar Fest 2 Replay Pack SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Bot on ladder Rollback Netcode in Brood War Sagi.gg Launcher Released BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
ASL 22 Finals [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs Dreams 2026-10-15 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8737 users

BGH FFA (inspired by TL's scavenger hunt)

Blogs > crate
Post a Reply
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:37:50
April 20 2010 00:31 GMT
#1
The Oberlin CSL team practiced for their games in the end of the season by ... playing BGH FFAs (we actually did better once we started doing this, so there may be something to this method!)

There's some replays at the end of the post.

Watching the stream of the FFA has immediately taught me one thing: most people don't know how ridiculously awesome scout/arbiter is when you have infinite money and attacking early means you die.

There is no counter to scout/arbiter. Air units? Yeah, right.... The only one that could work (unless you snipe all the observers and use cloaked wraiths AND your opponent doesn't just recall away from your wraiths) is valkyries but they don't shoot on BGH 90% of the time because of the sprite limit. Even if you have a far superior force half of it ends up frozen in blue crystals while the other half gets raped by missiles of doom for more than 30 explosive damage per attack. It turns out this even wins vs muta/devourer, even when outnumbered.

Ground units? No, they don't work either. In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off. Even goliaths end up losing since you stasis half the goliaths (and you can't EMP arbiters when scouts vaporize any science vessels with the same area code) and then you have four times as many scouts attacking as goliaths attacking because you have half of the un-stasis'd ones too far away to attack. Don't even think about trying hydras or dragoons.

Even if goliaths do win vs scout/arbiter, they're never going to break your cannons, so you can just ignore the goliaths. The cannons you'll have because it's BGH and you can build a million cannons with your billion extra minerals because you're going scout/arbiter off three gas.

Storm doesn't work because scouts move too fast and they have tons of HP. The only thing that beats scout/arbiter is ... scout/arbiter!

(Post inspired by me holding off a 180 food Z army and a 190 food battlecruiser army simultaneously, then another 180 food zerg army right afterward, then losing because carriers suck (I should have just stuck with scouts)).

Also, going scout/arbiter means you can do this:
[image loading]

Replays:

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34546 (this is the one that shows real scout/arbiter play and me switching to carriers then instantly losing because I lose my carriers because they suck. I'm yellow.)

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34547 (this is just generally entertaining; I noticed my scouts were better than my carriers. Also features nukes. And turrets.)

I should start using recall more, it means your already-mobile army is never caught out of position.

*****
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
April 20 2010 00:37 GMT
#2
With Vessel support Goliaths can go toe to toe depending on how well you focus fire and ect but if they screw up their building placement there gonna bleed stuff. IMO the best counter is sick sick lag
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:58:13
April 20 2010 00:57 GMT
#3
Goon/Arb rapes scout/arb.
In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off.

Because of this very same fact, they get completely dominated by stasis by anyone competent. You will stasis far less of their army than them yours, not to mention the fact that they will have more goons than your scouts anyways because of the supply dfiference.
And as for Z, hydra/swarm will dominate it as well. I don't know why you would go air vs scouts since that is the only thing they are good against. You can't possible stasis the entire zerg army if they throw in lings in there as well as keep up with their macro.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
April 20 2010 01:05 GMT
#4
Day[9] agrees with you. Scouts are fucking amazing on BGH
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:06 GMT
#5
That army I stasis'd was pretty close to 200/200 and had lings in there too (I think. I know he had lots of lings earlier, anyway.)

I've never had success with ground armies in BGH FFA myself (not like I'm really a pro on the subject though).

I really didn't think about goon/arb (probably because none of the times I played vs P did that P use arbiters), that probably does work if you can get your arbiters in past cannons to recall. Otherwise you can win vs the scouts but you can't attack the P base because scouts + cannons > goons.

Of course it really comes down to the fact that arbiters are kind of imba on BGH in general.

This post wasn't meant to be entirely serious (I'd guess you understood that much though).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 20 2010 01:27 GMT
#6
I can make scvs faster than scouts can kill them.

Though the ffa wasn't meant to be serious. With 7 players, there was always going to be inequality of starting position, as promptly demonstrated by White.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9830 Posts
April 20 2010 01:46 GMT
#7
yeah seriously, white should have won that game at least half an hour earlier than he did. imo if red proxy gated teal they'd be about even.
boomer hands
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:48 GMT
#8
I didn't actually watch the whole TL beta key FFA (mainly since my internet doesn't play nice with watching live streams). I'm planning on at least skimming them later on though.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech128
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2910
GuemChi 1441
Zeus 217
Larva 163
Snow 139
Dewaltoss 53
soO 48
ZergMaN 30
Bale 24
sSak 20
[ Show more ]
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Pusan 6
Icarus 4
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm221
League of Legends
JimRising 653
Other Games
gofns23110
summit1g5669
Coldzera 780
WinterStarcraft485
C9.Mang0268
Livibee176
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH346
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki63
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2185
League of Legends
• Rush1329
• Stunt431
Other Games
• Shiphtur594
Upcoming Events
Online Event
4h 41m
Korean StarCraft League
20h 41m
Afreeca Starleague
23h 41m
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 9h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 12h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.