• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:52
CEST 16:52
KST 23:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy3GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion JD's Ro24 review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The China Politics Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1888 users

BGH FFA (inspired by TL's scavenger hunt)

Blogs > crate
Post a Reply
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:37:50
April 20 2010 00:31 GMT
#1
The Oberlin CSL team practiced for their games in the end of the season by ... playing BGH FFAs (we actually did better once we started doing this, so there may be something to this method!)

There's some replays at the end of the post.

Watching the stream of the FFA has immediately taught me one thing: most people don't know how ridiculously awesome scout/arbiter is when you have infinite money and attacking early means you die.

There is no counter to scout/arbiter. Air units? Yeah, right.... The only one that could work (unless you snipe all the observers and use cloaked wraiths AND your opponent doesn't just recall away from your wraiths) is valkyries but they don't shoot on BGH 90% of the time because of the sprite limit. Even if you have a far superior force half of it ends up frozen in blue crystals while the other half gets raped by missiles of doom for more than 30 explosive damage per attack. It turns out this even wins vs muta/devourer, even when outnumbered.

Ground units? No, they don't work either. In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off. Even goliaths end up losing since you stasis half the goliaths (and you can't EMP arbiters when scouts vaporize any science vessels with the same area code) and then you have four times as many scouts attacking as goliaths attacking because you have half of the un-stasis'd ones too far away to attack. Don't even think about trying hydras or dragoons.

Even if goliaths do win vs scout/arbiter, they're never going to break your cannons, so you can just ignore the goliaths. The cannons you'll have because it's BGH and you can build a million cannons with your billion extra minerals because you're going scout/arbiter off three gas.

Storm doesn't work because scouts move too fast and they have tons of HP. The only thing that beats scout/arbiter is ... scout/arbiter!

(Post inspired by me holding off a 180 food Z army and a 190 food battlecruiser army simultaneously, then another 180 food zerg army right afterward, then losing because carriers suck (I should have just stuck with scouts)).

Also, going scout/arbiter means you can do this:
[image loading]

Replays:

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34546 (this is the one that shows real scout/arbiter play and me switching to carriers then instantly losing because I lose my carriers because they suck. I'm yellow.)

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34547 (this is just generally entertaining; I noticed my scouts were better than my carriers. Also features nukes. And turrets.)

I should start using recall more, it means your already-mobile army is never caught out of position.

*****
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
April 20 2010 00:37 GMT
#2
With Vessel support Goliaths can go toe to toe depending on how well you focus fire and ect but if they screw up their building placement there gonna bleed stuff. IMO the best counter is sick sick lag
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:58:13
April 20 2010 00:57 GMT
#3
Goon/Arb rapes scout/arb.
In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off.

Because of this very same fact, they get completely dominated by stasis by anyone competent. You will stasis far less of their army than them yours, not to mention the fact that they will have more goons than your scouts anyways because of the supply dfiference.
And as for Z, hydra/swarm will dominate it as well. I don't know why you would go air vs scouts since that is the only thing they are good against. You can't possible stasis the entire zerg army if they throw in lings in there as well as keep up with their macro.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
April 20 2010 01:05 GMT
#4
Day[9] agrees with you. Scouts are fucking amazing on BGH
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:06 GMT
#5
That army I stasis'd was pretty close to 200/200 and had lings in there too (I think. I know he had lots of lings earlier, anyway.)

I've never had success with ground armies in BGH FFA myself (not like I'm really a pro on the subject though).

I really didn't think about goon/arb (probably because none of the times I played vs P did that P use arbiters), that probably does work if you can get your arbiters in past cannons to recall. Otherwise you can win vs the scouts but you can't attack the P base because scouts + cannons > goons.

Of course it really comes down to the fact that arbiters are kind of imba on BGH in general.

This post wasn't meant to be entirely serious (I'd guess you understood that much though).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 20 2010 01:27 GMT
#6
I can make scvs faster than scouts can kill them.

Though the ffa wasn't meant to be serious. With 7 players, there was always going to be inequality of starting position, as promptly demonstrated by White.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9802 Posts
April 20 2010 01:46 GMT
#7
yeah seriously, white should have won that game at least half an hour earlier than he did. imo if red proxy gated teal they'd be about even.
boomer hands
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:48 GMT
#8
I didn't actually watch the whole TL beta key FFA (mainly since my internet doesn't play nice with watching live streams). I'm planning on at least skimming them later on though.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #243
Liquipedia
WardiTV Team League
11:00
Playoffs Day 3
RotterdaM764
WardiTV753
ComeBackTV 711
IndyStarCraft 234
Rex125
3DClanTV 65
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 718
Hui .242
IndyStarCraft 229
LamboSC2 183
ProTech147
Rex 121
Vindicta 42
Railgan 27
Codebar 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 67205
Calm 4182
Bisu 2728
Shuttle 1144
Mini 980
BeSt 761
actioN 577
EffOrt 533
ggaemo 511
Light 417
[ Show more ]
ZerO 391
Rush 370
Hyuk 264
firebathero 146
Last 93
Aegong 78
Killer 74
Nal_rA 72
Barracks 66
Shinee 61
Sexy 52
Sea.KH 51
Mind 51
Hyun 46
ToSsGirL 43
Movie 41
Hm[arnc] 28
scan(afreeca) 27
Backho 25
soO 24
Free 21
Rock 19
GoRush 15
NotJumperer 14
IntoTheRainbow 13
Terrorterran 12
yabsab 11
ivOry 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7421
qojqva2285
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
zeus653
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor223
MindelVK10
Other Games
singsing1832
B2W.Neo1794
Liquid`RaSZi1267
QueenE63
Mew2King46
ZerO(Twitch)24
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL865
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 12
• Response 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• LUISG 0
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1991
• Jankos1850
Upcoming Events
BSL
4h 8m
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
4h 8m
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
Replay Cast
18h 8m
Wardi Open
19h 8m
Afreeca Starleague
19h 8m
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 1h
OSC
1d 9h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 19h
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 19h
GSL
1d 21h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Escore
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
IPSL
6 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.