• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:18
CET 20:18
KST 04:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1812Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises1Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion What monitor do you use for playing Remastered? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (UMS) SWITCHEROO *New* /Destination Edit/ What are former legends up to these days?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 12 Days of Starcraft Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1333 users

BGH FFA (inspired by TL's scavenger hunt)

Blogs > crate
Post a Reply
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:37:50
April 20 2010 00:31 GMT
#1
The Oberlin CSL team practiced for their games in the end of the season by ... playing BGH FFAs (we actually did better once we started doing this, so there may be something to this method!)

There's some replays at the end of the post.

Watching the stream of the FFA has immediately taught me one thing: most people don't know how ridiculously awesome scout/arbiter is when you have infinite money and attacking early means you die.

There is no counter to scout/arbiter. Air units? Yeah, right.... The only one that could work (unless you snipe all the observers and use cloaked wraiths AND your opponent doesn't just recall away from your wraiths) is valkyries but they don't shoot on BGH 90% of the time because of the sprite limit. Even if you have a far superior force half of it ends up frozen in blue crystals while the other half gets raped by missiles of doom for more than 30 explosive damage per attack. It turns out this even wins vs muta/devourer, even when outnumbered.

Ground units? No, they don't work either. In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off. Even goliaths end up losing since you stasis half the goliaths (and you can't EMP arbiters when scouts vaporize any science vessels with the same area code) and then you have four times as many scouts attacking as goliaths attacking because you have half of the un-stasis'd ones too far away to attack. Don't even think about trying hydras or dragoons.

Even if goliaths do win vs scout/arbiter, they're never going to break your cannons, so you can just ignore the goliaths. The cannons you'll have because it's BGH and you can build a million cannons with your billion extra minerals because you're going scout/arbiter off three gas.

Storm doesn't work because scouts move too fast and they have tons of HP. The only thing that beats scout/arbiter is ... scout/arbiter!

(Post inspired by me holding off a 180 food Z army and a 190 food battlecruiser army simultaneously, then another 180 food zerg army right afterward, then losing because carriers suck (I should have just stuck with scouts)).

Also, going scout/arbiter means you can do this:
[image loading]

Replays:

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34546 (this is the one that shows real scout/arbiter play and me switching to carriers then instantly losing because I lose my carriers because they suck. I'm yellow.)

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34547 (this is just generally entertaining; I noticed my scouts were better than my carriers. Also features nukes. And turrets.)

I should start using recall more, it means your already-mobile army is never caught out of position.

*****
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
April 20 2010 00:37 GMT
#2
With Vessel support Goliaths can go toe to toe depending on how well you focus fire and ect but if they screw up their building placement there gonna bleed stuff. IMO the best counter is sick sick lag
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:58:13
April 20 2010 00:57 GMT
#3
Goon/Arb rapes scout/arb.
In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off.

Because of this very same fact, they get completely dominated by stasis by anyone competent. You will stasis far less of their army than them yours, not to mention the fact that they will have more goons than your scouts anyways because of the supply dfiference.
And as for Z, hydra/swarm will dominate it as well. I don't know why you would go air vs scouts since that is the only thing they are good against. You can't possible stasis the entire zerg army if they throw in lings in there as well as keep up with their macro.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
April 20 2010 01:05 GMT
#4
Day[9] agrees with you. Scouts are fucking amazing on BGH
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:06 GMT
#5
That army I stasis'd was pretty close to 200/200 and had lings in there too (I think. I know he had lots of lings earlier, anyway.)

I've never had success with ground armies in BGH FFA myself (not like I'm really a pro on the subject though).

I really didn't think about goon/arb (probably because none of the times I played vs P did that P use arbiters), that probably does work if you can get your arbiters in past cannons to recall. Otherwise you can win vs the scouts but you can't attack the P base because scouts + cannons > goons.

Of course it really comes down to the fact that arbiters are kind of imba on BGH in general.

This post wasn't meant to be entirely serious (I'd guess you understood that much though).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 20 2010 01:27 GMT
#6
I can make scvs faster than scouts can kill them.

Though the ffa wasn't meant to be serious. With 7 players, there was always going to be inequality of starting position, as promptly demonstrated by White.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9777 Posts
April 20 2010 01:46 GMT
#7
yeah seriously, white should have won that game at least half an hour earlier than he did. imo if red proxy gated teal they'd be about even.
boomer hands
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:48 GMT
#8
I didn't actually watch the whole TL beta key FFA (mainly since my internet doesn't play nice with watching live streams). I'm planning on at least skimming them later on though.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2 days
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Liquid`MaNa 307
UpATreeSC 139
RushiSC 134
Livibee 98
MindelVK 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21157
Mini 705
EffOrt 403
ggaemo 256
Dewaltoss 155
Shuttle 140
firebathero 139
BRAT_OK 86
PianO 72
Mong 52
[ Show more ]
Aegong 48
Dota 2
qojqva3247
League of Legends
C9.Mang0158
Counter-Strike
adren_tv173
chrisJcsgo81
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu370
Other Games
Grubby4473
FrodaN2208
Beastyqt816
fl0m805
B2W.Neo219
Hui .127
QueenE103
KnowMe85
ArmadaUGS53
Trikslyr52
Mlord50
NarutO 21
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 53
• naamasc243
• LUISG 18
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 28
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV777
• Ler108
League of Legends
• Nemesis3477
• Jankos1938
Other Games
• imaqtpie2641
• Shiphtur211
Upcoming Events
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
OSC
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Patches Events
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-29
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.