• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:38
CET 23:38
KST 07:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled10Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains12Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2344 users

BGH FFA (inspired by TL's scavenger hunt)

Blogs > crate
Post a Reply
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:37:50
April 20 2010 00:31 GMT
#1
The Oberlin CSL team practiced for their games in the end of the season by ... playing BGH FFAs (we actually did better once we started doing this, so there may be something to this method!)

There's some replays at the end of the post.

Watching the stream of the FFA has immediately taught me one thing: most people don't know how ridiculously awesome scout/arbiter is when you have infinite money and attacking early means you die.

There is no counter to scout/arbiter. Air units? Yeah, right.... The only one that could work (unless you snipe all the observers and use cloaked wraiths AND your opponent doesn't just recall away from your wraiths) is valkyries but they don't shoot on BGH 90% of the time because of the sprite limit. Even if you have a far superior force half of it ends up frozen in blue crystals while the other half gets raped by missiles of doom for more than 30 explosive damage per attack. It turns out this even wins vs muta/devourer, even when outnumbered.

Ground units? No, they don't work either. In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off. Even goliaths end up losing since you stasis half the goliaths (and you can't EMP arbiters when scouts vaporize any science vessels with the same area code) and then you have four times as many scouts attacking as goliaths attacking because you have half of the un-stasis'd ones too far away to attack. Don't even think about trying hydras or dragoons.

Even if goliaths do win vs scout/arbiter, they're never going to break your cannons, so you can just ignore the goliaths. The cannons you'll have because it's BGH and you can build a million cannons with your billion extra minerals because you're going scout/arbiter off three gas.

Storm doesn't work because scouts move too fast and they have tons of HP. The only thing that beats scout/arbiter is ... scout/arbiter!

(Post inspired by me holding off a 180 food Z army and a 190 food battlecruiser army simultaneously, then another 180 food zerg army right afterward, then losing because carriers suck (I should have just stuck with scouts)).

Also, going scout/arbiter means you can do this:
[image loading]

Replays:

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34546 (this is the one that shows real scout/arbiter play and me switching to carriers then instantly losing because I lose my carriers because they suck. I'm yellow.)

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=34547 (this is just generally entertaining; I noticed my scouts were better than my carriers. Also features nukes. And turrets.)

I should start using recall more, it means your already-mobile army is never caught out of position.

*****
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
April 20 2010 00:37 GMT
#2
With Vessel support Goliaths can go toe to toe depending on how well you focus fire and ect but if they screw up their building placement there gonna bleed stuff. IMO the best counter is sick sick lag
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 00:58:13
April 20 2010 00:57 GMT
#3
Goon/Arb rapes scout/arb.
In big numbers scouts have the advantage of being an air unit so they always get all their attacks off.

Because of this very same fact, they get completely dominated by stasis by anyone competent. You will stasis far less of their army than them yours, not to mention the fact that they will have more goons than your scouts anyways because of the supply dfiference.
And as for Z, hydra/swarm will dominate it as well. I don't know why you would go air vs scouts since that is the only thing they are good against. You can't possible stasis the entire zerg army if they throw in lings in there as well as keep up with their macro.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
April 20 2010 01:05 GMT
#4
Day[9] agrees with you. Scouts are fucking amazing on BGH
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:06 GMT
#5
That army I stasis'd was pretty close to 200/200 and had lings in there too (I think. I know he had lots of lings earlier, anyway.)

I've never had success with ground armies in BGH FFA myself (not like I'm really a pro on the subject though).

I really didn't think about goon/arb (probably because none of the times I played vs P did that P use arbiters), that probably does work if you can get your arbiters in past cannons to recall. Otherwise you can win vs the scouts but you can't attack the P base because scouts + cannons > goons.

Of course it really comes down to the fact that arbiters are kind of imba on BGH in general.

This post wasn't meant to be entirely serious (I'd guess you understood that much though).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 20 2010 01:27 GMT
#6
I can make scvs faster than scouts can kill them.

Though the ffa wasn't meant to be serious. With 7 players, there was always going to be inequality of starting position, as promptly demonstrated by White.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9795 Posts
April 20 2010 01:46 GMT
#7
yeah seriously, white should have won that game at least half an hour earlier than he did. imo if red proxy gated teal they'd be about even.
boomer hands
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
April 20 2010 01:48 GMT
#8
I didn't actually watch the whole TL beta key FFA (mainly since my internet doesn't play nice with watching live streams). I'm planning on at least skimming them later on though.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 691
ProTech128
JuggernautJason99
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 20
Dota 2
monkeys_forever221
capcasts78
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 482
minikerr11
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu400
Other Games
summit1g9535
FrodaN3918
Grubby3707
B2W.Neo551
shahzam464
byalli416
KnowMe386
ViBE49
PPMD11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2092
ComeBackTV 185
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta27
• musti20045 6
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 58
• blackmanpl 37
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2980
League of Legends
• Doublelift4452
Other Games
• imaqtpie1284
• Scarra1029
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 23m
CranKy Ducklings
11h 23m
RSL Revival
11h 23m
MaxPax vs Rogue
Clem vs Bunny
WardiTV Team League
13h 23m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
18h 23m
BSL
21h 23m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 11h
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
1d 13h
Patches Events
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
GSL
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-12
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
Proleague 2026-03-13
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.