1) I can watch with my eyes what is going on rather than having to look at the bottom of the screen to read, using peripheral vision to watch while someone is talking.
2) I can understand voice inflection and a lot of other ways of verbal communication through the English, it really gets lost on me in the Japanese version, especially with Luffy. His serious and playful voices seem the same in the Japanese version. This is really important as the English version feels much more real, much more alive than the Japanese version.
3) I started with the dub.
1) I didn't call you an anime noob a few threads back because I was trying to make fun of you. What you are saying is classically what people who are not that into anime say.
2) Generally the japanese voice actors do a better job of this stuff... the nature of the beast rather than making fun of English voice actors. You just aren't used to listening to japanese voices obviously.
3) Yeah exactly. Whichever one you don't start with will sound weird but it's not that hard to get used to a second one if you are willing to consider both as good... I did that with Kenshin and it went pretty well.
In conclusion you prefer the dub because you lack the experience to fully appreciate the Japanese, and you prefer not using subs because you are not used to them. Getting used to subs and Japanese is worth it since you will ultimately have a better experience watching anime in the long run if you plan to keep watching more anime. If you look at my list of anime I've seen it shows that I've developed my skills over the last decade... I actually can get the gist of most things said without subtitles just due to my experience without any formal training... ok my fansubbing experience has helped a bit :p
I agree, but my lack of fluency in Japanese is always going to cap the amount of information that I can take in from the voice actors, no matter how brilliant they may be. The nuances and such are mostly lost on me, and I think a lot of it is beyond my abilities to learn without actually learning the language itself.
Having to read subtitles at the bottom is also a big, big annoyance. I had downloaded a dubbed version for a few episodes in which it was both dubbed and subbed, both in English, and it was really, really frustrating as my eyes were constantly drawn down to reading the English subbed text despite listening to it at the same time. It really illustrated just how annoying having to watch certain scenes in peripheral vision is.
I'm not into One Piece in order to maximally appreciate it by re-watching scenes or anything, it's just a great TV show that I like to watch, and for the reasons above I find the dub vastly preferable.
Okay but you don't seem to be willing to acknowledge the possibility that the rest of us actually know what the heck we are talking about (for the most part)...
You don't need to study japanese in order to appreciate it... I specifically explained that. You get used to subs the more you watch them... don't think you never would if you practiced lol
I was watching subs when I was like 13-14 and got used to them pretty quickly. Also, your test of watching it dubbed with subs also is bad and is of course going to make the subs annoying... I don't think even I could watch more than one episode that way :p... btw you can probably turn off either the dub or subs on that file.
But why would dubs be worse? Because I'm able to get more information from the Japanese voice actors, despite it being a foreign language, than I could get from the English voice actors? I don't buy that, plus the other negatives that come with reading the sub over hearing the dub.
Your argument right now is basically like a 14 year old walking into the world math convention and trying to convince everyone that the sum of 1/n converges. In your limited experience you may honestly believe that that's how it is... but there's no chance of you convincing anyone. They will be frustrated because it's very challenging to get you to believe them that it actually diverges. Most likely they will just give up. It's unfair to you but understandable. I'm trying not to give up. Don't say things like "no watching the dub is more enjoyable"... instead maybe something like "so far it's more enjoyable for me, and while I might learn to like it with subs as much as you are claiming in the distance future, I don't plan on watching that much anime so I'll just stick with what is working, but thanks for your suggestions and I'm sure there is logic behind what you are saying fine sirs"
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just responding to what was said. This was, and is, in my mind a light-hearted discussion with respect to dubs and subs. It's not a flagship thread on an anime forum, it's just a tangent with respect to a blog series as I go through One Piece. If I disagree with something that is said, I'll say it, and there's no need for you, me, or anyone else to get all defensive over it. I do prefer the funimation dub for OP over the sub significantly, and I disagree with your reasoning as to why the sub would be preferable (and I have tried it); I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, of anything. It's just light-hearted blog discussion.
Okay I'll just leave it at... if you gave subs more of a try in the long run you would most likely learn to like/appreciate them in general. If you don't have much anime-watching plans then it isn't necessary aside from the problem that one piece isn't fully dubbed... but ultimately your call.
On April 14 2010 10:58 micronesia wrote: Your argument right now is basically like a 14 year old walking into the world math convention and trying to convince everyone that the sum of 1/n converges. In your limited experience you may honestly believe that that's how it is... but there's no chance of you convincing anyone. They will be frustrated because it's very challenging to get you to believe them that it actually diverges. Most likely they will just give up. It's unfair to you but understandable. I'm trying not to give up. Don't say things like "no watching the dub is more enjoyable"... instead maybe something like "so far it's more enjoyable for me, and while I might learn to like it with subs as much as you are claiming in the distance future, I don't plan on watching that much anime so I'll just stick with what is working, but thanks for your suggestions and I'm sure there is logic behind what you are saying fine sirs"
Maybe your giant blocks of text would be more convincing if you actually included a reason why the Japanese voice-acting is better. ;/
On April 14 2010 10:52 CandleJack wrote: My problem with the dubs is twofold. 1) Too many of the character sound like whiny girls to me. All of the high-pitched voices are annoying/distracting 2)More importantly, the dubs are just better written in english in my opinion. The dubs are a lot funnier and more entertaining. All of the subs I've seen aren't translated all that well. I watched the first 4 episodes in the funimation dub form as well as in the form of two different sources of subs, and the subs just aren't that good. The translation is in sort of broken english, it has no flow, and it's not as funny. All of the dialogue that's humorous in the funimation dubs falls flat the way it's translated in the subbed version..
Unless there are better-translated subs out there that I just haven't seen? I'd really like to find a way to watch the subs, as I don't want to stop halfway through and wait for 12 episodes from funimation every 3 months, I just can't stand them =(
edit: for the record, I'm not against all subbing for any reason. I started watching the dubbed version of TTGL, didn't like it, tried the subbed version and watched the whole thing in one sitting. it was awesome. So i'm not anti-sub. I just haven't found the subs of one piece to be any good.
You meant problem with the subs I assume? Otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense.
1. This is the same kind of problem cz has. Once you get used to one thing, everything else sounds weird. Yes, many of the Japanese voices ARE higher-pitched. But it's not distracting for me. It certainly is a lot better than the emotionless robot voices that dubs usually have. The JP voice actors are just BETTER at what they do. The voice work industries in Japan are just miles ahead of those in the US unfortunately. Please note, I do NOT know Japanese, and I feel like I pick up way more from the subs than dubs.
2. It may be true that dubs will have "smoother" English, but that, in my opinion, is because they take more liberties with the original script. They'll change things in order to make it flow better or to make cultural jokes more relevant, whereas subs just translate what is being said (with occasional notes). I personally feel that the latter is better, but to each his own there. There are also outright inaccuracies or dumb things in dubs too. Like the example Funimation dub cz posted in his last blog. When Robin responds to Usopp about her "specialty", she responds "killer" which IIRC was changed from "assassination". It sounds dumber and there seems to be no reason for it. (Political correctness? I dunno)
3. Kaizoku fansubs or Vegapunk up to ~340. Nakama fansubs after that would probably be best. Correct me if I'm wrong fellow One Piecers.
On April 14 2010 11:06 micronesia wrote: Okay I'll just leave it at... if you gave subs more of a try in the long run you would most likely learn to like/appreciate them in general. If you don't have much anime-watching plans then it isn't necessary aside from the problem that one piece isn't fully dubbed... but ultimately your call.
I really don't plan on watching too much anime: I'll probably give Naruto a try after finishing OP, and I will eventually switch to subs when dubs run out, but that's probably it. I'm not an anime fan so much as I am an entertainment fan: before OP I was watched all of NCIS, and before that JAG, before that Hogan's Heroes, etc. If a show is entertaining, whatever it may be, I'll watch it all. No real dedication to an exact format, though.
Hmm. I see what you mean about them taking liberties with the script. I guess I prefer the funimation dubs for precisely that reason. Things flow better, I feel it's easier/more entertaining to watch because the dialogue isn't just a word-for-word translation.
Thanks for your opinion as well as the suggestion about the fansubs. Like I said, I'd really like to get into them. I'll check them out. And you're right about the first point, I guess it's just a matter of getting used to the voices. Hey, if all goes well, this'll give me an excuse to watch the first 91 episodes again (in subbed form this time haha).
On April 14 2010 10:52 CandleJack wrote: My problem with the dubs is twofold. 1) Too many of the character sound like whiny girls to me. All of the high-pitched voices are annoying/distracting 2)More importantly, the dubs are just better written in english in my opinion. The dubs are a lot funnier and more entertaining. All of the subs I've seen aren't translated all that well. I watched the first 4 episodes in the funimation dub form as well as in the form of two different sources of subs, and the subs just aren't that good. The translation is in sort of broken english, it has no flow, and it's not as funny. All of the dialogue that's humorous in the funimation dubs falls flat the way it's translated in the subbed version..
Unless there are better-translated subs out there that I just haven't seen? I'd really like to find a way to watch the subs, as I don't want to stop halfway through and wait for 12 episodes from funimation every 3 months, I just can't stand them =(
edit: for the record, I'm not against all subbing for any reason. I started watching the dubbed version of TTGL, didn't like it, tried the subbed version and watched the whole thing in one sitting. it was awesome. So i'm not anti-sub. I just haven't found the subs of one piece to be any good.
You meant problem with the subs I assume? Otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense.
1. This is the same kind of problem cz has. Once you get used to one thing, everything else sounds weird. Yes, many of the Japanese voices ARE higher-pitched. But it's not distracting for me. It certainly is a lot better than the emotionless robot voices that dubs usually have. The JP voice actors are just BETTER at what they do. The voice work industries in Japan are just miles ahead of those in the US unfortunately. Please note, I do NOT know Japanese, and I feel like I pick up way more from the subs than dubs.
2. It may be true that dubs will have "smoother" English, but that, in my opinion, is because they take more liberties with the original script. They'll change things in order to make it flow better or to make cultural jokes more relevant, whereas subs just translate what is being said (with occasional notes). I personally feel that the latter is better, but to each his own there. There are also outright inaccuracies or dumb things in dubs too. Like the example Funimation dub cz posted in his last blog. When Robin responds to Usopp about her "specialty", she responds "killer" which IIRC was changed from "assassination". It sounds dumber and there seems to be no reason for it. (Political correctness? I dunno)
3. Kaizoku fansubs or Vegapunk up to ~340. Nakama fansubs after that would probably be best. Correct me if I'm wrong fellow One Piecers.
1. This might be true to an extent. I've always watched Bleach subbed, and really can follow all the emotions in every character's voice. I'm just lost with respect to One Piece voices, especially Luffy, whose moods are critical to most scenes.
2. This actually doesn't matter much. So long as the story isn't made worse, I don't care if it's not perfectly canonically translated. I'm not going to go to a One Piece convention or anything, nor do I discuss it with people outside of this blog, so it's not really important. Also, Usopp asks Nico "What her specific skill is" or something, to which she dryly and somewhat contentedly says "Killing." FUNimation dubs released on DVD are completely uncensored, uncut, unedited, etc, and the original funimation dubbing was partially redone for them.
On April 14 2010 10:58 micronesia wrote: Your argument right now is basically like a 14 year old walking into the world math convention and trying to convince everyone that the sum of 1/n converges. In your limited experience you may honestly believe that that's how it is... but there's no chance of you convincing anyone. They will be frustrated because it's very challenging to get you to believe them that it actually diverges. Most likely they will just give up. It's unfair to you but understandable. I'm trying not to give up. Don't say things like "no watching the dub is more enjoyable"... instead maybe something like "so far it's more enjoyable for me, and while I might learn to like it with subs as much as you are claiming in the distance future, I don't plan on watching that much anime so I'll just stick with what is working, but thanks for your suggestions and I'm sure there is logic behind what you are saying fine sirs"
Maybe your giant blocks of text would be more convincing if you actually included a reason why the Japanese voice-acting is better. ;/
If you go back earlier in the thread we were all discussing this... complaining someone made a giant block of text when it's like less than eight sentences doesn't reflect well on you though.
edit: it's probably clear that I have no problem with the OP choosing to watch dubs if he doesn't have much plans to watch anime... which he apparently doesn't.
On April 14 2010 10:58 micronesia wrote: Your argument right now is basically like a 14 year old walking into the world math convention and trying to convince everyone that the sum of 1/n converges. In your limited experience you may honestly believe that that's how it is... but there's no chance of you convincing anyone. They will be frustrated because it's very challenging to get you to believe them that it actually diverges. Most likely they will just give up. It's unfair to you but understandable. I'm trying not to give up. Don't say things like "no watching the dub is more enjoyable"... instead maybe something like "so far it's more enjoyable for me, and while I might learn to like it with subs as much as you are claiming in the distance future, I don't plan on watching that much anime so I'll just stick with what is working, but thanks for your suggestions and I'm sure there is logic behind what you are saying fine sirs"
Maybe your giant blocks of text would be more convincing if you actually included a reason why the Japanese voice-acting is better. ;/
This is hard to quantify exactly. I delved into a it bit in my above post. The JP voice acting just IS better. Better at delivery, showing emotion, etc. Also keep in mind, the original casting for anime is obviously done in Japan. IE. When the anime is getting produced they choose VA's for certain roles for a reason. So yes, if a particular character has a high pitched voice, they probably wanted it that way.
The quality difference SEEMS obvious to me but.... I guess not to everyone?
A good example would be a comparison of the dubbed/subbed versions of Ep. 37.
On April 14 2010 10:52 CandleJack wrote: My problem with the dubs is twofold. 1) Too many of the character sound like whiny girls to me. All of the high-pitched voices are annoying/distracting 2)More importantly, the dubs are just better written in english in my opinion. The dubs are a lot funnier and more entertaining. All of the subs I've seen aren't translated all that well. I watched the first 4 episodes in the funimation dub form as well as in the form of two different sources of subs, and the subs just aren't that good. The translation is in sort of broken english, it has no flow, and it's not as funny. All of the dialogue that's humorous in the funimation dubs falls flat the way it's translated in the subbed version..
Unless there are better-translated subs out there that I just haven't seen? I'd really like to find a way to watch the subs, as I don't want to stop halfway through and wait for 12 episodes from funimation every 3 months, I just can't stand them =(
edit: for the record, I'm not against all subbing for any reason. I started watching the dubbed version of TTGL, didn't like it, tried the subbed version and watched the whole thing in one sitting. it was awesome. So i'm not anti-sub. I just haven't found the subs of one piece to be any good.
You meant problem with the subs I assume? Otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense.
1. This is the same kind of problem cz has. Once you get used to one thing, everything else sounds weird. Yes, many of the Japanese voices ARE higher-pitched. But it's not distracting for me. It certainly is a lot better than the emotionless robot voices that dubs usually have. The JP voice actors are just BETTER at what they do. The voice work industries in Japan are just miles ahead of those in the US unfortunately. Please note, I do NOT know Japanese, and I feel like I pick up way more from the subs than dubs.
2. It may be true that dubs will have "smoother" English, but that, in my opinion, is because they take more liberties with the original script. They'll change things in order to make it flow better or to make cultural jokes more relevant, whereas subs just translate what is being said (with occasional notes). I personally feel that the latter is better, but to each his own there. There are also outright inaccuracies or dumb things in dubs too. Like the example Funimation dub cz posted in his last blog. When Robin responds to Usopp about her "specialty", she responds "killer" which IIRC was changed from "assassination". It sounds dumber and there seems to be no reason for it. (Political correctness? I dunno)
3. Kaizoku fansubs or Vegapunk up to ~340. Nakama fansubs after that would probably be best. Correct me if I'm wrong fellow One Piecers.
1. This might be true to an extent. I've always watched Bleach subbed, and really can follow all the emotions in every character's voice. I'm just lost with respect to One Piece voices, especially Luffy, whose moods are critical to most scenes.
2. This actually doesn't matter much. So long as the story isn't made worse, I don't care if it's not perfectly canonically translated. I'm not going to go to a One Piece convention or anything, nor do I discuss it with people outside of this blog, so it's not really important. Also, Usopp asks Nico "What her specific skill is" or something, to which she dryly and somewhat contentedly says "Killing." FUNimation dubs released on DVD are completely uncensored, uncut, unedited, etc, and the original funimation dubbing was partially redone for them.
How come you aren't able follow the emotions in Japanese voices and stuff? I mean, sure you can't understand the actual words they are using, but you can at least pick up voice tones and stuff, right? I mean, emotion wise, I don't think that stuff is hard to pick up from the sound of their voices.
On April 14 2010 10:52 CandleJack wrote: My problem with the dubs is twofold. 1) Too many of the character sound like whiny girls to me. All of the high-pitched voices are annoying/distracting 2)More importantly, the dubs are just better written in english in my opinion. The dubs are a lot funnier and more entertaining. All of the subs I've seen aren't translated all that well. I watched the first 4 episodes in the funimation dub form as well as in the form of two different sources of subs, and the subs just aren't that good. The translation is in sort of broken english, it has no flow, and it's not as funny. All of the dialogue that's humorous in the funimation dubs falls flat the way it's translated in the subbed version..
Unless there are better-translated subs out there that I just haven't seen? I'd really like to find a way to watch the subs, as I don't want to stop halfway through and wait for 12 episodes from funimation every 3 months, I just can't stand them =(
edit: for the record, I'm not against all subbing for any reason. I started watching the dubbed version of TTGL, didn't like it, tried the subbed version and watched the whole thing in one sitting. it was awesome. So i'm not anti-sub. I just haven't found the subs of one piece to be any good.
You meant problem with the subs I assume? Otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense.
1. This is the same kind of problem cz has. Once you get used to one thing, everything else sounds weird. Yes, many of the Japanese voices ARE higher-pitched. But it's not distracting for me. It certainly is a lot better than the emotionless robot voices that dubs usually have. The JP voice actors are just BETTER at what they do. The voice work industries in Japan are just miles ahead of those in the US unfortunately. Please note, I do NOT know Japanese, and I feel like I pick up way more from the subs than dubs.
2. It may be true that dubs will have "smoother" English, but that, in my opinion, is because they take more liberties with the original script. They'll change things in order to make it flow better or to make cultural jokes more relevant, whereas subs just translate what is being said (with occasional notes). I personally feel that the latter is better, but to each his own there. There are also outright inaccuracies or dumb things in dubs too. Like the example Funimation dub cz posted in his last blog. When Robin responds to Usopp about her "specialty", she responds "killer" which IIRC was changed from "assassination". It sounds dumber and there seems to be no reason for it. (Political correctness? I dunno)
3. Kaizoku fansubs or Vegapunk up to ~340. Nakama fansubs after that would probably be best. Correct me if I'm wrong fellow One Piecers.
1. This might be true to an extent. I've always watched Bleach subbed, and really can follow all the emotions in every character's voice. I'm just lost with respect to One Piece voices, especially Luffy, whose moods are critical to most scenes.
2. This actually doesn't matter much. So long as the story isn't made worse, I don't care if it's not perfectly canonically translated. I'm not going to go to a One Piece convention or anything, nor do I discuss it with people outside of this blog, so it's not really important. Also, Usopp asks Nico "What her specific skill is" or something, to which she dryly and somewhat contentedly says "Killing." FUNimation dubs released on DVD are completely uncensored, uncut, unedited, etc, and the original funimation dubbing was partially redone for them.
How come you aren't able follow the emotions in Japanese voices and stuff? I mean, sure you can't understand the actual words they are using, but you can at least pick up voice tones and stuff, right? I mean, emotion wise, I don't think that stuff is hard to pick up from the sound of their voices.
I think it takes a bit of getting used to. On the other hand, I think that the English will always be better at communicating emotion and subtlety than the Japanese, due to my knowledge of one language over the other. Whether that subtlety is exactly as written in the manga/Japanese isn't really important so long as it doesn't take away from the overall experience.
3: sometimes the dubs are better then the subs, digimon and yugioh they added alot better sounds to the anime during the dubs.
esp yugioh yugi just sounds like a bitch throughout the whole thing in the original not sexy deep voice when changing character haha.
People tend to stick with what they started in.
1: 2: are not really valid when talking about subs 1 is easily done by watching more subed things i watch alot of foreign films although some 2 you get continuity issues and relative culture things when you changes when you watch forign things the voice is just another one of those things
i like the example of a movie with nazi's in it in english, if it was shown in germany and dubed in german the context of german officers speaking german would go away. etc.
I dont even realize im reading subs on the animes i watch, and ive seen alot. im also nowhere near being able to speak Japanese. People need to work on their reading skills or something =\
edit: I also prefer subbed because even though i dont know japanese, i can tell immediately that the voice actors are better. Especially when it comes to emotional/intense scenes. Ive tried watching some dubs before and all i could do was laugh, yes.. i literally laugh on most dubs. It feels so fake and effortless watching an anime (or even a movie) in language that isnt in its original audio.
While I admire micronesia's patience in explaining the virtues of subs, allow me to play the bad cop and say that anyone who prefers dub is a total retard. It is a preference born from ignorance and general lack of taste, just like Internet Explorer defenders.
On April 14 2010 10:58 micronesia wrote: Your argument right now is basically like a 14 year old walking into the world math convention and trying to convince everyone that the sum of 1/n converges. In your limited experience you may honestly believe that that's how it is... but there's no chance of you convincing anyone. They will be frustrated because it's very challenging to get you to believe them that it actually diverges. Most likely they will just give up. It's unfair to you but understandable. I'm trying not to give up. Don't say things like "no watching the dub is more enjoyable"... instead maybe something like "so far it's more enjoyable for me, and while I might learn to like it with subs as much as you are claiming in the distance future, I don't plan on watching that much anime so I'll just stick with what is working, but thanks for your suggestions and I'm sure there is logic behind what you are saying fine sirs"
Maybe your giant blocks of text would be more convincing if you actually included a reason why the Japanese voice-acting is better. ;/
I've taken japanese for...6 years now. I've watched anime longer. English dubs typically take out a lot of the subtlety of the dialogue. The japanese language operates on different ideas and cultural values. Often times if you directly translate what they're saying to english it means something different than the intended meaning (in bleach they often say "warui na" which literally means, "some recently referenced situation/noun is bad," and the intended meaning is "I'm sorry" in a very casual way)
the language is contextual; there are more meanings added onto what is said and what groups they're in/regard eachother in and all kinds of stuff that usually gets completely lost in the dubbed version. In the subbed version, the people who do it have to be versed in japanese which implies an awareness of this. because subs don't have to be in perfect english, the translations can at least grasp at it
and i forgot to mention voice actors. in japan, there is a HUUUUGE market for voice actors..they're more skilled than the american actors (cuz its a far bigger market) and due to the script being in their native language its just a lot more natural. sometimes ill hear dubbed stuff and it kinda makes me cringe because people don't actually talk like that
EPT
