• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:30
CET 19:30
KST 03:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0224LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)41Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker13PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)17
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Terran Scanner Sweep
Tourneys
WardiTV Team League Season 10 LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
TvZ is the most complete match up BW General Discussion ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them? Which units you wish saw more use in the game?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1870 users

Mirror Matchups

Blogs > Bibbit
Post a Reply
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-11 07:42:44
April 11 2010 06:53 GMT
#1
Since in modern teamliquid it is necessary to clarify: I am talking about sc:bw.

Is there anybody else here who actually legitimately likes mirror matchups a lot? Obviously there's a limit to how much you can watch (please no more double zvz finals, but I'm sure Flash wont let that happen) but I genuinely like to watch mirror matchups.

If I may just generalize for a minute here, ZvZ would be my least favourite mirror. But still, some are damn exciting. Although theres some significant build order advantages to be had right at the start but I dont think its quite as "rock/paper/scissors" as was once thought. Calm vs Kwanro on Carthage, anyone? ZvZ is just such a fast paced matchup, things get going from like the second the pool finishes.

Recommended ZvZs for Your Viewing Pleasure:
-Zero vs Type-B on Match Point
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7DqxyiGsRE

-Zero vs Hyuk on Match Point (Again)
+ Show Spoiler +

-Kwanro vs Calm on Carthage 3
+ Show Spoiler +

-The entire tsl set between Ret and Sen, especially Ret's "extractor victory" (was that on Fighting Spirit?)
+ Show Spoiler +
This is set one, you can maneuver to the rest of the match easily from here.


Note: I'm quite new to pro-sc (First starleague I watched in its entirety was Lost Saga MSL) so I'm not so familiar with all the gems I'm sure went down before my time. This is of course true for TvT and PvP as well.

TvT is a total mystery. It could be really short or almost unfathomably long but any length has the potential to be totally kickass. I find TvT to be the most tactical of all matchups; everything is an effort to find great positioning and abuse the giant range of tanks to kill everything possible. Also, TvT seems to be one of the most versatile matchups: Two port wraiths, 14 CC, 2 fac vults, I could go on for like 5 minutes just naming openings and another 20 minutes going through all the different mid-game tactics that can be seen.

Recommended for Your Viewing Pleasure:
-Boxer vs Nada on Destination
+ Show Spoiler +

-Flash vs Leta on Medusa (Filthy long game)
+ Show Spoiler +

-Skyhigh vs Fantasy on Match Point
+ Show Spoiler +

-Flash vs Sea on Neo Moon Glaive
+ Show Spoiler +

-I'd be surprised if Boxer and Oov haven't had some good games with each other, even though I havent seen them. Maybe somebody could recommend?

PvP is, in many respects, a middle ground between TvT and ZvZ. Lengthwise, PvP seems to be much closer to the average game of sc. This is not to say they cannot be long and epic (a la the infamous tie game between I believe Rock and Chalrenge) or fast and cheesy. PvP too has a lot of versatility. Templar tech? Reavers? With speed on the shuttle or without? Maybe just a shitload of gates would be fun? Some of the heaviest harassment can be found in PvP, with storm drops (like the greatest thing in starcraft period) often occurring throughout the entire game. PvP is also highly mobile: more than capable of having counter attacks going down all over the place.

Recommended Viewing for Your Pleasure:
-Movie vs Bisu on Match Point
+ Show Spoiler +

-Stork vs Movie of Fighting Spirit (Yes, I like Movie)
+ Show Spoiler +

-Bisu vs Stork on Desperado
+ Show Spoiler +
You can get to it through TLPD, its not on youtube
-Like every other Bisu vs Stork game ever

Polls:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Poll: In general, how do you feel about mirror matchups?
(Vote): Like them
(Vote): Indifferent
(Vote): Dont really like them too much
(Vote): Awesome!
(Vote): Terrible, take off the air please


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Poll: Favourite Mirror Matchup?
(Vote): ZvZ
(Vote): TvT
(Vote): PvP
(Vote): Fuck mirrors


Well thanks for reading (assuming anyone did anyway) and I hope at least somebody comes out of this with a more positive view of mirrors

Edit: Embedded vods

JoeSaddles
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States344 Posts
April 11 2010 06:57 GMT
#2
I actually love PvP but it seems most people hate it and I barely ever get to play it on ICCUP...

It's the only matchup that is a fair one for protoss imo =P
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/SaddleS.html
JoeSaddles
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States344 Posts
April 11 2010 07:00 GMT
#3
yesh PvP strategy is sick you can win going classic goon/reaver or you can bust out some citadel first speed zeal/storm if you're fast with storm micro...

the only thing I dislike about PvP is scarabs.... you can have an unlucky scarab that doesn't explode and literally cost you the entire game.. it can be the difference between killing 10 probes or none
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/SaddleS.html
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
April 11 2010 07:01 GMT
#4
I am actually super-excited about ZvZ. Matches are generally short and dynamic. The state of the game can change very rapidly. The metagame has evolved soooooo heavily ever since Jaedong showed Zergs how to rape other Zergs. There is so much skill, timing, and strategy involved in ZvZ that it's just mind-boggling. I really feel like the matchup has not been explored heavily enough yet. People just can't wrap their heads around it all at once while playing it.

TvT is exciting whenever cheese or early heavy harassment is involved. PvP is completely boring or super-awesome depending on the players. Any PvP with Stork is guaranteed to be excellent.
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-11 07:04:05
April 11 2010 07:02 GMT
#5
I love watching PvP, and sometimes TvT when it's not two mediocre people going at it. ZvZ I can stomach but don't really give a damn about/don't play close attention unless one of my favourite players is playing, or it gets to one of those long drawn out, 3 base/3 gas games.

As for playing them, they're all fun to play My favourite is PvP though.

Some more matches off the top of my head:

Jaedong vs. RorO (Match Point)
Jaedong vs. Crazy-Hydra (Uh.. Odd-Eye? I can't remember. Their MSL match.)
Zero vs. Killer x 2 (Heartbreak & Tornado)
--
Flash vs Boxer (Python)
all of the boxer/oov OSL finals
Light vs Upmagic (WCG)
Flash vs Upmagic (Sin Chupung Ryeung)
--
Movie vs Pure (Match Point)
Bisu vs Violet (Neo Medusa)
Bisu vs Guemchi (Neo Medusa)
Uh.. totally blanking on epic PvPs here
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 11 2010 07:18 GMT
#6
--- Nuked ---
Gao Xi
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Hong Kong5178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-11 07:38:50
April 11 2010 07:38 GMT
#7
On April 11 2010 16:18 krndandaman wrote:
Those long TvT's (Aka 35min+) are super boring no matter how much tactics are used for some reason. Other than that, TvT is alrite and it is decent to play even though I suck at it.

I have to say that skyhigh's TvT is just straight up fun to watch.
On April 11 2010 16:18 krndandaman wrote:
ZvZ's is UBER fun to play and pretty fun to watch. My favorite matchup. Heavily dependent on micro and control with dynamic play.

Agreed
龔智禮 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ CJ NATION
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
April 11 2010 07:53 GMT
#8
ZvZ is one of the best match-ups out there. People who hate just incorrectly assume it's build-order oriented.

TvT and PvP can both die in a fire.
TranslatorBaa!
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
April 11 2010 07:59 GMT
#9
I love playing PvP and ZvZ

I don't have the patience for TvT, I just unsiege my tanks and 1a2a3a --> insta loss
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Likkzi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland72 Posts
April 11 2010 08:18 GMT
#10
Never really understood TvT haters. It's just AMAZING when done by pros:

(T)Flash vs (T)firebathero on Neo Medusa:
+ Show Spoiler +


(T)Sea vs (T)RuBy on MoonGlaive:
+ Show Spoiler +

krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 11 2010 08:29 GMT
#11
--- Nuked ---
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
April 11 2010 09:03 GMT
#12
Hohoho you HAVE to watch the Boxer v Oov OSL finals, or at least the 4th game is nothing else ^_^
Realpenguin
Profile Joined December 2006
8253 Posts
April 11 2010 12:00 GMT
#13
I like all mirrors, but PvP is my least favorite. Some PvPs are really good though, like the ones you posted.

I just can't believe you missed this one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/26346_GuemChi_vs_SangHo
<Wolfpox> i remember when MVP beat that one guy, and everyone was like 'whoa' except that penguin dude.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
April 11 2010 18:32 GMT
#14
On April 11 2010 21:00 Realpenguin wrote:
I like all mirrors, but PvP is my least favorite. Some PvPs are really good though, like the ones you posted.

I just can't believe you missed this one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/26346_GuemChi_vs_SangHo


omg I was actually thinking of that one while I wrote but forgot about it when I was trying to remember the map for the Bisu vs Stork one I was thinking of. :/
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:30
#40
RotterdaM838
TKL 313
IndyStarCraft 242
SteadfastSC86
LiquipediaDiscussion
Wardi Open
13:00
#74
Rex60
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Grubby 3026
RotterdaM 838
TKL 313
Harstem 307
IndyStarCraft 242
elazer 124
BRAT_OK 112
SteadfastSC 86
UpATreeSC 84
Livibee 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 713
Shuttle 600
Larva 398
ggaemo 372
Backho 123
Rock 24
JYJ 24
Dota 2
Gorgc5491
League of Legends
Rex60
Counter-Strike
fl0m5847
byalli1050
Foxcn435
allub160
Other Games
singsing2359
Beastyqt860
ceh9530
ArmadaUGS139
Hui .132
Trikslyr79
KnowMe66
Mew2King56
JuggernautJason14
OptimusSC25
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL42514
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 68
• davetesta17
• Reevou 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 36
• FirePhoenix5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota255
League of Legends
• Nemesis4105
• Jankos2243
• TFBlade1027
Other Games
• imaqtpie806
• Shiphtur356
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 30m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
17h 30m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Bunny
Classic vs SHIN
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-14
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.