• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:51
CEST 20:51
KST 03:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!43Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming! ASL Season 22 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6675 users

Mirror Matchups

Blogs > Bibbit
Post a Reply
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-11 07:42:44
April 11 2010 06:53 GMT
#1
Since in modern teamliquid it is necessary to clarify: I am talking about sc:bw.

Is there anybody else here who actually legitimately likes mirror matchups a lot? Obviously there's a limit to how much you can watch (please no more double zvz finals, but I'm sure Flash wont let that happen) but I genuinely like to watch mirror matchups.

If I may just generalize for a minute here, ZvZ would be my least favourite mirror. But still, some are damn exciting. Although theres some significant build order advantages to be had right at the start but I dont think its quite as "rock/paper/scissors" as was once thought. Calm vs Kwanro on Carthage, anyone? ZvZ is just such a fast paced matchup, things get going from like the second the pool finishes.

Recommended ZvZs for Your Viewing Pleasure:
-Zero vs Type-B on Match Point
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7DqxyiGsRE

-Zero vs Hyuk on Match Point (Again)
+ Show Spoiler +

-Kwanro vs Calm on Carthage 3
+ Show Spoiler +

-The entire tsl set between Ret and Sen, especially Ret's "extractor victory" (was that on Fighting Spirit?)
+ Show Spoiler +
This is set one, you can maneuver to the rest of the match easily from here.


Note: I'm quite new to pro-sc (First starleague I watched in its entirety was Lost Saga MSL) so I'm not so familiar with all the gems I'm sure went down before my time. This is of course true for TvT and PvP as well.

TvT is a total mystery. It could be really short or almost unfathomably long but any length has the potential to be totally kickass. I find TvT to be the most tactical of all matchups; everything is an effort to find great positioning and abuse the giant range of tanks to kill everything possible. Also, TvT seems to be one of the most versatile matchups: Two port wraiths, 14 CC, 2 fac vults, I could go on for like 5 minutes just naming openings and another 20 minutes going through all the different mid-game tactics that can be seen.

Recommended for Your Viewing Pleasure:
-Boxer vs Nada on Destination
+ Show Spoiler +

-Flash vs Leta on Medusa (Filthy long game)
+ Show Spoiler +

-Skyhigh vs Fantasy on Match Point
+ Show Spoiler +

-Flash vs Sea on Neo Moon Glaive
+ Show Spoiler +

-I'd be surprised if Boxer and Oov haven't had some good games with each other, even though I havent seen them. Maybe somebody could recommend?

PvP is, in many respects, a middle ground between TvT and ZvZ. Lengthwise, PvP seems to be much closer to the average game of sc. This is not to say they cannot be long and epic (a la the infamous tie game between I believe Rock and Chalrenge) or fast and cheesy. PvP too has a lot of versatility. Templar tech? Reavers? With speed on the shuttle or without? Maybe just a shitload of gates would be fun? Some of the heaviest harassment can be found in PvP, with storm drops (like the greatest thing in starcraft period) often occurring throughout the entire game. PvP is also highly mobile: more than capable of having counter attacks going down all over the place.

Recommended Viewing for Your Pleasure:
-Movie vs Bisu on Match Point
+ Show Spoiler +

-Stork vs Movie of Fighting Spirit (Yes, I like Movie)
+ Show Spoiler +

-Bisu vs Stork on Desperado
+ Show Spoiler +
You can get to it through TLPD, its not on youtube
-Like every other Bisu vs Stork game ever

Polls:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Poll: In general, how do you feel about mirror matchups?
(Vote): Like them
(Vote): Indifferent
(Vote): Dont really like them too much
(Vote): Awesome!
(Vote): Terrible, take off the air please


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Poll: Favourite Mirror Matchup?
(Vote): ZvZ
(Vote): TvT
(Vote): PvP
(Vote): Fuck mirrors


Well thanks for reading (assuming anyone did anyway) and I hope at least somebody comes out of this with a more positive view of mirrors

Edit: Embedded vods

JoeSaddles
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States344 Posts
April 11 2010 06:57 GMT
#2
I actually love PvP but it seems most people hate it and I barely ever get to play it on ICCUP...

It's the only matchup that is a fair one for protoss imo =P
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/SaddleS.html
JoeSaddles
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States344 Posts
April 11 2010 07:00 GMT
#3
yesh PvP strategy is sick you can win going classic goon/reaver or you can bust out some citadel first speed zeal/storm if you're fast with storm micro...

the only thing I dislike about PvP is scarabs.... you can have an unlucky scarab that doesn't explode and literally cost you the entire game.. it can be the difference between killing 10 probes or none
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/SaddleS.html
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
April 11 2010 07:01 GMT
#4
I am actually super-excited about ZvZ. Matches are generally short and dynamic. The state of the game can change very rapidly. The metagame has evolved soooooo heavily ever since Jaedong showed Zergs how to rape other Zergs. There is so much skill, timing, and strategy involved in ZvZ that it's just mind-boggling. I really feel like the matchup has not been explored heavily enough yet. People just can't wrap their heads around it all at once while playing it.

TvT is exciting whenever cheese or early heavy harassment is involved. PvP is completely boring or super-awesome depending on the players. Any PvP with Stork is guaranteed to be excellent.
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-11 07:04:05
April 11 2010 07:02 GMT
#5
I love watching PvP, and sometimes TvT when it's not two mediocre people going at it. ZvZ I can stomach but don't really give a damn about/don't play close attention unless one of my favourite players is playing, or it gets to one of those long drawn out, 3 base/3 gas games.

As for playing them, they're all fun to play My favourite is PvP though.

Some more matches off the top of my head:

Jaedong vs. RorO (Match Point)
Jaedong vs. Crazy-Hydra (Uh.. Odd-Eye? I can't remember. Their MSL match.)
Zero vs. Killer x 2 (Heartbreak & Tornado)
--
Flash vs Boxer (Python)
all of the boxer/oov OSL finals
Light vs Upmagic (WCG)
Flash vs Upmagic (Sin Chupung Ryeung)
--
Movie vs Pure (Match Point)
Bisu vs Violet (Neo Medusa)
Bisu vs Guemchi (Neo Medusa)
Uh.. totally blanking on epic PvPs here
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 11 2010 07:18 GMT
#6
--- Nuked ---
Gao Xi
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Hong Kong5178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-11 07:38:50
April 11 2010 07:38 GMT
#7
On April 11 2010 16:18 krndandaman wrote:
Those long TvT's (Aka 35min+) are super boring no matter how much tactics are used for some reason. Other than that, TvT is alrite and it is decent to play even though I suck at it.

I have to say that skyhigh's TvT is just straight up fun to watch.
On April 11 2010 16:18 krndandaman wrote:
ZvZ's is UBER fun to play and pretty fun to watch. My favorite matchup. Heavily dependent on micro and control with dynamic play.

Agreed
龔智禮 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ CJ NATION
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21247 Posts
April 11 2010 07:53 GMT
#8
ZvZ is one of the best match-ups out there. People who hate just incorrectly assume it's build-order oriented.

TvT and PvP can both die in a fire.
TranslatorBaa!
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
April 11 2010 07:59 GMT
#9
I love playing PvP and ZvZ

I don't have the patience for TvT, I just unsiege my tanks and 1a2a3a --> insta loss
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Likkzi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland72 Posts
April 11 2010 08:18 GMT
#10
Never really understood TvT haters. It's just AMAZING when done by pros:

(T)Flash vs (T)firebathero on Neo Medusa:
+ Show Spoiler +


(T)Sea vs (T)RuBy on MoonGlaive:
+ Show Spoiler +

krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 11 2010 08:29 GMT
#11
--- Nuked ---
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
April 11 2010 09:03 GMT
#12
Hohoho you HAVE to watch the Boxer v Oov OSL finals, or at least the 4th game is nothing else ^_^
Realpenguin
Profile Joined December 2006
8253 Posts
April 11 2010 12:00 GMT
#13
I like all mirrors, but PvP is my least favorite. Some PvPs are really good though, like the ones you posted.

I just can't believe you missed this one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/26346_GuemChi_vs_SangHo
<Wolfpox> i remember when MVP beat that one guy, and everyone was like 'whoa' except that penguin dude.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
April 11 2010 18:32 GMT
#14
On April 11 2010 21:00 Realpenguin wrote:
I like all mirrors, but PvP is my least favorite. Some PvPs are really good though, like the ones you posted.

I just can't believe you missed this one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/26346_GuemChi_vs_SangHo


omg I was actually thinking of that one while I wrote but forgot about it when I was trying to remember the map for the Bisu vs Stork one I was thinking of. :/
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The Patches Monday
16:15
#3
RotterdaM958
TaKeTV 430
TKL 414
IndyStarCraft 289
SteadfastSC216
ZombieGrub111
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 958
ByuN 514
TKL 414
IndyStarCraft 289
SteadfastSC 216
ZombieGrub111
UpATreeSC 79
JuggernautJason24
RushiSC 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3550
Shuttle 883
BeSt 610
Soma 326
Soulkey 259
Larva 124
Dewaltoss 110
ggaemo 107
Terrorterran 22
Dota 2
XaKoH 643
League of Legends
KnowMe90
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps887
zeus143
edward36
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0338
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu340
Other Games
Grubby3346
Liquid`RaSZi1763
FrodaN1511
Beastyqt796
ceh9562
ToD198
ArmadaUGS127
uThermal122
Livibee92
Mew2King49
Trikslyr41
BRAT_OK 34
MindelVK5
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 140
• Reevou 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 30
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1192
Other Games
• imaqtpie1468
• Shiphtur401
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
15h 9m
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
16h 9m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 15h
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.