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United States24777 Posts
We all have different levels of experience with what Beta Particles are. However, I am sure many readers have either forgotten or never actually learned what they are or where they come from. Here is a quick explanation to start off your day.
Beta particles are generally considered to be electrons, however they can also be positrons, depending on where they come from. What's a positron, you ask (if you don't know what an electron is then I hope you are in middle school or a third world country or something)? A positron is a particle the same size as an electron except with a positive charge. It is considered the anti-particle of the electron. Essentially it is a negated electron.
Unlike, say, Alpha particles (helium nuclei), Beta particles can penetrate a sheet of paper. However, unlike say, Gamma Radiation, Beta particles can be stopped with a simple conductive barrier such as a sheet of metal.
Alpha particles cannot penetrate solid matter whereas Beta particles can. Radiation (electromagnetic waves) can penetrate in even more cases than Beta particles.
At this point you may be wondering when you get the positive or negative version of the Beta particle. This is a good question. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure it out.
But seriously, it depends on what type of particle an electron has in excess. β− decay (electron) occurs when there is a surplus of Neutrons. Do you remember in chemistry/physics class how the neutron was slightly more massive than the proton? That might help you understand what I'm about to say. An excess neutron can actually be broken down into its constituent components: a proton, an electron, and an electron-type antineutrino (don't ask about this last one lol). Throughout this reaction, the total energy of the particles is conserved even though the mass changes.*
β+ decay occurs when an atom has a surplus of protons. Similar to β− decay, the excess particle is broken down into other particles. This one will make a bit less sense since the proton is broken down into a neutron (something bigger!), a positron, and an electron-type neutrino. Notice that two of those particles are the anti-particle of the ones emitted in β− decay. In this reaction, total energy is not conserved unless you take into account for external factors... namely the difference in binding energy of the atom both before and after the reaction. For those who are very knowledgeable on this topic please feel free to think of a better way of explaining it or provide more details.
Henri Becquerel and then Ernest Rutherford discovered this when conducting research in the 19th Century, with results identifying alpha and beta particles being published in 1897.
Ernest Rutherford
One additional interesting thing about Beta particles: not only can they damage biological tissue, but, if they strike DNA, they can actually cause a spontaneous mutation! Even if that does not occur, a severe cancer can result.
*For those unaware, matter and energy are essentially the same thing. Another way of looking at it is that matter is a type of energy. The total mass of a reaction doesn't have to stay the same as long as the equivalent total energy is conserved. The relation between mass and energy is approximately E = m * c^2.
Stay tuned for my forthcoming report on the Beta function.
Rick James
 
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I'm glad I came here and left bathed in your first world's reserved knowledge.
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*stares confused, with swollen red eyes at the monitor, then at the mass of garbage accumulated in room the past day and night, then at the unfinished cold soup in the bowl in front on the desk, at the other food crumbles and at his own sweaty, unwashed self*
THIS NO STARCRAFT BETA THREAD
ME ANGRY
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Taking nuclear physics in university was liberating after high school chemistry, I dont know how to explain it, but you are humbled on how much is really there and you are dumbfounded by your arrogance and ignorance to make many assumptions and not ask these questions. There is a lot out there to learn and it is a joy to learn about all these mind blowing things everyday. This is a pretty good write up micronesia. On this topic I am currently reading "The making of the atomic bomb" and it is a terrific book that everyone should read on the history of the atomic bomb, and it's scientists, and their discoveries written in lucid prose.
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On February 11 2010 23:26 Cloud wrote:
I'm glad I came here and left bathed in your first world's reserved knowledge.
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United States10328 Posts
hmm I have a question that I was too lazy to ask in physics class yesterday
so consider something like
(e-) + p -> n + ν (that's a nu I swear!)
vs.
p -> n + (e+) + ν
so the "net effect" of this reaction is the same
but can we call it the "same reaction"? because emitting a positron, if we just randomly decided to add an e-/e+ pair production, would be equivalent to absorbing an electron... plus we can think of absorbing an electron as "emitting an electron through negative time"?
I hope I'm coherent here...
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when i saw the words beta ... i thought it was starcraft 2 beta =.=
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On February 11 2010 23:35 ]343[ wrote:
hmm I have a question that I was too lazy to ask in physics class yesterday
so consider something like
(e-) + p -> n + ν (that's a nu I swear!)
vs.
p -> n + (e+) + ν
so the "net effect" of this reaction is the same
but can we call it the "same reaction"? because emitting a positron, if we just randomly decided to add an e-/e+ pair production, would be equivalent to absorbing an electron... plus we can think of absorbing an electron as "emitting an electron through negative time"?
I hope I'm coherent here...
Yes, I would love to know the answer to this too ^.^. This question came up to me before but the physics prof is a douche towards me and I dont like asking him questions, are B+ decay and electron capture the same thing? The thing is I am assuming they probably arent considering that the weights on those reactions are not equal.
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Good blog 
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5/5 i like the random addition of rick james at the end lol.
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How should we understand gamma radiation?
Let's assume "1 decay" happens.
Is "one radiation wave" generated? Or many? In the picture we see a wave, as if many decays happened. Or maybe this is one decay, which generates say "6 waves".
Is the "radiation" pointing towards some direction (as if this was a particle), or does it go in every direction?
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United States24777 Posts
On February 12 2010 00:31 rererebanned wrote:
How should we understand gamma radiation?
Let's assume "1 decay" happens.
Is "one radiation wave" generated? Or many? In the picture we see a wave, as if many decays happened. Or maybe this is one decay, which generates say "6 waves".
Is the "radiation" pointing towards some direction (as if this was a particle), or does it go in every direction?
Actually the reactions I included don't release radiation... just particles. The way in which radiation gets released from other reactions is an interesting topic though.
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Did seriously learn something interesting here, looking forward towards the next report on the beta function!
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On February 11 2010 23:35 ]343[ wrote:
hmm I have a question that I was too lazy to ask in physics class yesterday
so consider something like
(e-) + p -> n + ν (that's a nu I swear!)
vs.
p -> n + (e+) + ν
so the "net effect" of this reaction is the same
but can we call it the "same reaction"? because emitting a positron, if we just randomly decided to add an e-/e+ pair production, would be equivalent to absorbing an electron... plus we can think of absorbing an electron as "emitting an electron through negative time"?
I hope I'm coherent here...
Protons don't decay, at least as far as we know.
Should the Beta particle be drawn as a wave as well? Because of DeBroglie wavelength and what not?
Overall Pretty awesome though! =D
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On February 12 2010 00:46 frozenkatkiller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 23:35 ]343[ wrote:
hmm I have a question that I was too lazy to ask in physics class yesterday
so consider something like
(e-) + p -> n + ν (that's a nu I swear!)
vs.
p -> n + (e+) + ν
so the "net effect" of this reaction is the same
but can we call it the "same reaction"? because emitting a positron, if we just randomly decided to add an e-/e+ pair production, would be equivalent to absorbing an electron... plus we can think of absorbing an electron as "emitting an electron through negative time"?
I hope I'm coherent here... Protons don't decay, at least as far as we know. Should the Beta particle be drawn as a wave as well? Because of DeBroglie wavelength and what not? Overall Pretty awesome though! =D
Well as far as I know you should not state what "we" as in everyone knows when you didnt do much research or probably never dealt with this subject in the slightest depth. What 343 wrote is correct, the proton converting to the neutron and releasing a positron is called Beta+ decay
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you really need to describe the weak force and quantum tunneling of the electron probability wave to describe why radiation happens
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On February 12 2010 00:33 micronesia wrote:
Actually the reactions I included don't release radiation... just particles. The way in which radiation gets released from other reactions is an interesting topic though.
Photons (gamma radiation) are particles too, so I don't really see the difference here...?
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United States24777 Posts
On February 12 2010 01:27 crate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2010 00:33 micronesia wrote:
Actually the reactions I included don't release radiation... just particles. The way in which radiation gets released from other reactions is an interesting topic though. Photons (gamma radiation) are particles too, so I don't really see the difference here...? All waves are particles and all particles are waves... if that's what you mean. But an electron is more a particle than a photon in my opinion.
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I was mainly wondering why you are saying beta particles are not radiation, since mostly every other source says the opposite.
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United States24777 Posts
On February 12 2010 01:30 crate wrote:
I was mainly wondering why you are saying beta particles are not radiation, since mostly every other source says the opposite.
Yeah I should be clear about whether I mean ionizing radiation or electromagnetic radiation.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Alfa_beta_gamma_radiation.svg/454px-Alfa_beta_gamma_radiation.svg.png)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Beta-minus_Decay.svg/250px-Beta-minus_Decay.svg.png)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Ernest_Rutherford2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/367865/Rick+James.jpg)
