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Poll: Should I learn PvP or PvZ this season?
(Vote): PvP
(Vote): PvZ
Hey TL,
I just want to say thanks to everyone for all the help since I started posting here, I made it to D+ in my first season and came less than 300 points away 3 times from topping out at C-. I played all PvT mind you. I want to learn one MU at a time, I feel for me it will work better.
So this season I am still going to play PvT of course (to keep it fresh) but mainly play one of the other MU's. Either PvZ or PvP.
PvZ: Seems like a bad bad time to be trying to learn thism MU if I understand correctly. My understanding is right now Z's are rolling P's all over the place on iCCup. Is this the case?
PvP: Seems sort of roll the dice and sort of dry. I loved the constant action in PvT, and PvP seems more like w8ing to see who techs wrong first.. Correct me if I am wrong.
So which one do you think I should go for?
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My personal view as a newer protoss similar to you is that PvZ is a much more enjoyable matchup. Any supposed imbalance in PvZ isn't really an issue at the ranks we're playing at.
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I think PvZ will be more rewarding. The problem is that all the D level Zs will do some sort of all in build 25-50% of the time lol.
I never really liked mirror match ups as really small mistakes can cost you the game. Very micro intensive though so if you like to micro you should learn PvP.
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There is more protoss than zerg player in my experience. So learn pvp.
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Considering all of iccup is toss's, PvZ is rather useless, learn PvP.
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Yeah, I enjoy playing PvZ a lot. So I suggest you go for this mu.
PvP is just so boring... and on top of that on iccup PvP is almost always cheese...
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On December 31 2009 11:59 ggrrg wrote:
PvP is just so boring... and on top of that on iccup PvP is almost always cheese...
I'm fine with getting cheesed, I got so used to being bunker rushed in PvT I got pretty good at defending, I'm sure I'll be alright on PvP as long as I scout (which I do). I played the campign and FMP vs CPU for 10 years. My mouse micro is decent, my keyboard usage is horrible. Rush = Mouse Micro needed, Not Rush = Keyboard Usage (ie: Macro, 7-8 Ctrl Groups, etc...).
Plus I also have a feeling at D all I have to do is go one/two gate obs to win 80% of the time. I have a feleing D level on iCCup is alot of DT's lol. Again I could be wrong.
On December 31 2009 11:57 Methos wrote:
I never really liked mirror match ups as really small mistakes can cost you the game. Very micro intensive though so if you like to micro you should learn PvP.
Good point, and my micro is better than my macro.
On December 31 2009 11:58 YPang wrote:
Considering all of iccup is toss's, PvZ is rather useless, learn PvP.
Again good point.
PvP is defintly leading so far in my eyes, but I'm sure somebdy will come thru and defend the swarm  !
Thanks for the input, keep it coming  !!
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United States11393 Posts
Why don't you just experiment and play both and see which one you enjoy more?
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PvP definitely, it will sharpen your game sense since you and your opponent should theoretically similar thing.
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PvP is too easy to learn. Rock Paper Scissors. 2gate obs/reaver > fast DT > 3/4 gate hanbang > 2gate obs/reaver
those are like the only strategies youll see. if it ends up to the same strategy, its all about unit positioning and abusing map topography. Fast DT vs Fast DT is elimination race. all you need to do in PvP is scout and respond correctly.
PvZ makes the protoss feel limited. Zerg can do w/e the fuck they want (mutalisks, hydralisks, fast ultraling). Just macro and overpower with MACRO. Zealots+few goons+templars > Hydralisks. Corsair+Goon/Archon/Templar > Mutalisks. Archon+Goon+Zealots+few templars/reavers > ultraling.
ALSO. always scout if the zerg gets a new expo and get your 3rd when you can.
i always found Corsair/DT and Corsair/reaver very haaaaaard
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PvZ would be much more enjoyable imo.
To people saying PvP is rock/paper/scissors... you're wrong. I hate when people try to reduce sc to such simple terms.
Kenpachi, fast DT can still beat 2 gate/obsreaver with a FE w/ cannons/storm and 2 gate obs/reaver can defend 3/4 gate hanbang as well. In addition to this, it's not as though you are completely blind throughout the game, with proper scouting (not just with your probe but also with your first few units to see their unit count, etc.) you can usually rule out at least a few possibilities of what your opponent is doing.
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pvz is balanced at lower levels, so you wont be playing people who know how to use every exploit the protoss does
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pvz much more fun to play
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On December 31 2009 12:27 Jonoman92 wrote:
PvZ would be much more enjoyable imo.
To people saying PvP is rock/paper/scissors... you're wrong. I hate when people try to reduce sc to such simple terms.
Kenpachi, fast DT can still beat 2 gate/obsreaver with a FE w/ cannons/storm and 2 gate obs/reaver can defend 3/4 gate hanbang as well. In addition to this, it's not as though you are completely blind throughout the game, with proper scouting (not just with your probe but also with your first few units to see their unit count, etc.) you can usually rule out at least a few possibilities of what your opponent is doing.
I said they are the most common build orders in PvP and fast DT is to finish your opponents with DTs or do significant damage and if it fails, your behind or dead I doubt you can get cannons or storm fast enough to stay alive. 3/4 gate hanbang > 2gate obs/reaver unless the protoss doesnt know how to position correctly..
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On December 31 2009 11:51 Diamondback2 wrote:
PvZ: Seems like a bad bad time to be trying to learn thism MU if I understand correctly. My understanding is right now Z's are rolling P's all over the place on iCCup. Is this the case?
Just check map stats on iccup. No its not the case. It's about as even as it gets.
motw
motw2
You will have to click each map to show full stats.
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It seems that PvZ is more of a crucial mu to master than PvZ. You sound hella more baller when you say that PvZ is your best mu.
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On December 31 2009 13:45 DyEnasTy wrote:
It seems that PvZ is more of a crucial mu to master than PvZ. You sound hella more baller when you say that PvZ is your best mu.
huh?
i mean i guess i can figure it out, but that threw me off bad for a min
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learn pvt? i played you on colo2 at D+ ish and you just fail proxy2gated t.t
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On December 31 2009 16:21 duckett wrote:
learn pvt? i played you on colo2 at D+ ish and you just fail proxy2gated t.t
holy shit i lost a game? obvious proof i do not know PvT. O wait, I lost 89 times. Congrats you beat me you rock...
Plus I almost never proxy. I 12 Nex, DT FE, or 10/15 gates 90% of the time.
Thanks for being an asshole.
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On December 31 2009 12:50 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 12:27 Jonoman92 wrote:
PvZ would be much more enjoyable imo.
To people saying PvP is rock/paper/scissors... you're wrong. I hate when people try to reduce sc to such simple terms.
Kenpachi, fast DT can still beat 2 gate/obsreaver with a FE w/ cannons/storm and 2 gate obs/reaver can defend 3/4 gate hanbang as well. In addition to this, it's not as though you are completely blind throughout the game, with proper scouting (not just with your probe but also with your first few units to see their unit count, etc.) you can usually rule out at least a few possibilities of what your opponent is doing. I said they are the most common build orders in PvP and fast DT is to finish your opponents with DTs or do significant damage and if it fails, your behind or dead I doubt you can get cannons or storm fast enough to stay alive. 3/4 gate hanbang > 2gate obs/reaver unless the protoss doesnt know how to position correctly..
Well that bolded part just isn't true really. Fast dt is nearly always done (by good players at least) in conjuction with a relatively quick expo with cannons and ht's. Here's a nice rep of me losing to it. I can't believe the guy had such low apm lol...
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=27490
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On December 31 2009 16:48 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 12:50 Kenpachi wrote:On December 31 2009 12:27 Jonoman92 wrote:
PvZ would be much more enjoyable imo.
To people saying PvP is rock/paper/scissors... you're wrong. I hate when people try to reduce sc to such simple terms.
Kenpachi, fast DT can still beat 2 gate/obsreaver with a FE w/ cannons/storm and 2 gate obs/reaver can defend 3/4 gate hanbang as well. In addition to this, it's not as though you are completely blind throughout the game, with proper scouting (not just with your probe but also with your first few units to see their unit count, etc.) you can usually rule out at least a few possibilities of what your opponent is doing. I said they are the most common build orders in PvP and fast DT is to finish your opponents with DTs or do significant damage and if it fails, your behind or dead I doubt you can get cannons or storm fast enough to stay alive. 3/4 gate hanbang > 2gate obs/reaver unless the protoss doesnt know how to position correctly.. Well that bolded part just isn't true really. Fast dt is nearly always done (by good players at least) in conjuction with a relatively quick expo with cannons and ht's. Here's a nice rep of me losing to it. I can't believe the guy had such low apm lol... http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=27490
dude wtf LOL
did 2 cannons intimidate you or something? cuz after you kill the dark templar and saw the cannons, you should KNOW that your opponent cut on workers and units...
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stop talking about pvp if you have no idea wtf youre talking about.
PvP isnt a auto loss match up like ZvZ. you can do a safe build like 2 gate obs and have a chance to win every game. maybe not at pro level, but we're talking about foriegner games on iccup lol. at amateur level PvP is a very fun match up.
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Sigh, both PvZ and PvP are super fun.
But I'm going to have to go with PvZ.
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EPT
