EPTHow I Became a Fantasy/SF Writer - Page 3
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
 .To address some of the questions: 1. Unfortunately, I can't post my story due to contract obligations. Posting it online would be tantamount to self-publication which is forbidden by my contract with Galaxy Press. ALTHOUGH, if you guys send me a PM with your email address, I will send you an MS Word copy of my story. It's already in print and on the shelves in B&N/Borders so I'm not worried about plagiarism or any of that stuff. So yeah, I have absolutely no problem with sharing my story, I just can't put it directly onto the internet. 2. Anyone who wants tips on being a writer are MORE than welcome to ask. Really, don't hesitate. I had a bitch of a time coming up and I'll give anyone a leg up when I can. What I can't do is give critiques of anyone's work atm as I'm deep into the novel writing process and I tend to get really messed if I read someone else's fiction while I'm in that mode. (Their style tends to bleed into mine if it's nice haha. Must be my Chinese bootlegging genes at work). 3. I'm an ABC and Tian Zi is the pinyin for: 天子. LoL and yes my GF has seen me watching SC and has gotten really confused saying "wth, that looks like you!" 4. I don't believe I'm an arrogant person. I probably came off that way because I was writing in an emotive fashion where I was focused more on expressing my frustrations with the workshop rather than what I truly think of my peers. It's like that feeling when you believe deeply in your work and everyone else is bashing it and you lash back by saying they just don't understand. In terms of actual writers though. I have nothing but respect for people struggling to improve their writing and make their dreams happen. Everyone's got a different opinion on what good writing is and there's no final judge to say who's right. The things that irked me were people who just plain didn't get it. And by that I mean they were putting no effort into their work OR their critique and it was obvious to everyone. Even my professor was exasperated at times. For instance, one time I wrote a story set in the Middle East during the Crusades and a guy's critique was "This doesn't sound realistic. People don't fight with swords anymore." Another person's was "I couldn't tell what state this was in." And a third person's was "I didn't like the main character's name. I don't know how to pronounce Rashid." | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On December 29 2009 13:59 Matoo- wrote: Got lured here from the original thread, when this "The Dragon and the Stars" anthology comes out PLEASE MAKE A BLOG POST I really don't want to miss out on this. I will definitely make a blog post when it comes out Thanks for your interest Matoo! If you're interested, here's what the Table of Contents is going to be: 1. "The Character of the Hound" by Tony Pi (Canada) 2. "The Fortunes of Mrs. Yu" by Charles Tan (Philippines) 3. "Goin Down to Anglotown" by William F. Wu (U.S.A.) 4. "The Polar Bear Carries the Mail" by Derwin Mak (Canada) 5. "Lips of Ash" by Emery Huang (U.S.A.) 6. "The Man on the Moon" by Crystal Gail Shangkuan Koo (Hong Kong) 7. "Across the Sea" by Emily Mah (U.S.A.) 8. "Mortal Clay, Stone Heart" by Eugie Foster (U.S.A.) 9. "Dancers with Red Shoes" by Melissa Yuan-Innes (Canada) 10. "Intelligent Truth" by Shelly Li (U.S.A.) 11. "Bargains" by Gabriela Lee (Singapore) 12. "Threes" by E.L. Chen (Canada) 13. "The Son of Heaven" by Eric Choi (Canada) 14. "Shadow City" by Susan Ee (U.S.A.) 15. "The Water Weapon" by Brenda W. Clough (U.S.A.) 16. "The Right to Eat Decent Food" by Urania Fung (U.S.A.) 17. "Papa and Mama" by Wen Y Phua (Singapore) 18. "Beidou" by Ken Liu (U.S.A.) The books also features an Introduction by New York Times bestseller novelist Tess Gerritsen and an Afterword by Derwin Mak & Eric Choi. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
So how DO you improve your writing? I'm not a very clear thinker and I think the two go hand in hand. I'd like to improve both. What exactly was it that made you "fucking good" all of the sudden? Did you model after authors whose writing style you particularly liked? Is there a certain method or technique that helps you learn as much as you can from these authors? I personally really like J.M. Coetzee's style. I'd love to learn how to write like him. His prose is not only clear and economical but he also comes up with the most incisive analogies. | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
2. Anyone who wants tips on being a writer are MORE than welcome to ask. Really, don't hesitate. I had a bitch of a time coming up and I'll give anyone a leg up when I can. I'll take this opportunity. Although I won't go into detail, my world is also a combination of Fantasy and Science Fiction. Perhaps a double coincidence is that it also involves swords, dragons, and stars (mostly stars that get blown up by tremendously large weapons). I want to know how you approach the descriptions of characters and events. I struggle with all forms of English, but it is descriptions I find the most challenging, doubly so because my vocabulary is extremely limited. You did not want any examples, and my examples would be a little confusing when just pulled out of a novel containing 526k words and 1207 pages... so I won't bother with that. For example, let's say I want to describe a very complicated ship. (Warning: very big image!) http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3351/glecterormainxj5.jpg How would you approach this task? Where would you begin? What would you opt to leave to the reader, even though you want to establish a very clear vision of what's in your head? | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
edit: I also have ambitions to be a writer hoyl crap must stop posting before 1000 | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On December 29 2009 16:19 IskatuMesk wrote: I'll take this opportunity. Although I won't go into detail, my world is also a combination of Fantasy and Science Fiction. Perhaps a double coincidence is that it also involves swords, dragons, and stars (mostly stars that get blown up by tremendously large weapons). I want to know how you approach the descriptions of characters and events. I struggle with all forms of English, but it is descriptions I find the most challenging, doubly so because my vocabulary is extremely limited. You did not want any examples, and my examples would be a little confusing when just pulled out of a novel containing 526k words and 1207 pages... so I won't bother with that. For example, let's say I want to describe a very complicated ship. (Warning: very big image!) http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3351/glecterormainxj5.jpg How would you approach this task? Where would you begin? What would you opt to leave to the reader, even though you want to establish a very clear vision of what's in your head? OK, descriptions can be a tricky thing. The first thing you gotta remember is that writing is VERY different from the visual mediums. A lot of people have trouble converting words into images. Specificity is not important, what's important is communicating the general idea to your readers. For instance: This would be a bad description of the ship in my opinion: It was a massive starship with six wings that fanned out from the middle in a geometrical pattern and angular designs were carved into the surface of them. There was also a cockpit encased in sharp hard edges and a main thruster in the back. A good description IMO: It was a terrifying starship, sleek and predatory with a cockpit that thrust forward like a falcon's beak and sharp-edged wings that splayed out from its body like a flower of death. Ofc there are other stylistic variations you can do: eg. It was a heavy destroyer built for deep-space combat with six unobtanium alloyed wings carrying a payload of fusion warheads powerful enough to make a new sun. It had the thrust capacity to go from zero to infinity with the flick of a switch and when the Grey Falcon's profile came up on the HUD, every pilot's suit within half a light-year would be venting turds into the waste disposal system. It all depends on what style you want to go for and what emotion you want to convey. I want to stress VERY MUCH though that details and specificity is not what matters. What matters is to make the reader FEEL. They need to FEEL your story and be moved by it. If you're explaining and forcing them to see your vision, then they're not going to like it. The job of a reader is to take his vision but then translate in a way that the reader can see that vision too but through THEIR eyes. It's very different from movie producers who are all about creating George Lucas' personal vision and Lucas' visuals and having everything just so. The reason I think books are awesome is that the power is in the hands of the reader. You can write the word dragon down on paper but a million people will have a million different dragons in their head. The key is to create a character people can relate to, then explore this character's life, and in this exploration the readers will be taken on an emotional journey they will enjoy and perhaps even get some revelations from. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On December 29 2009 15:53 Warrior Madness wrote: Cool story bro.... Really So how DO you improve your writing? I'm not a very clear thinker and I think the two go hand in hand. I'd like to improve both. What exactly was it that made you "fucking good" all of the sudden? Did you model after authors whose writing style you particularly liked? Is there a certain method or technique that helps you learn as much as you can from these authors? I personally really like J.M. Coetzee's style. I'd love to learn how to write like him. His prose is not only clear and economical but he also comes up with the most incisive analogies. I think the #1 most important thing is experimentation. Definitely try to emulate other authors. But not for too long. Just do short stories. Write one in a certain style. Then write one in another style. Try first person. Try third person. Try a story with no dialogue. Try a story that's all dialogue. Try a story with only thoughts. Try a story with only action. Try a story with a linear, chronological structure. As in day 1, day 2, day 3. Then try a story with a flashback. It starts when they're 5, then goes to when they're 20. Now try the reverse, they start at age 20 but they have a flashback from when they were 8. Try a story with 2 characters. Try a story with five. Try a dialogue with 4 characters. I think you see what I'm getting at. Short stories are your friend. They're a quick in and out that allow a LOT of experimentation with only 2-3 days of effort. Don't worry about writing the perfect story. Don't worry about making it sellable. Don't worry about creating an entire world with history etc right away. I'd stick to contemporary settings first just because they take the least ground work to get started. Write action stories. Write romance stories. Write scientific discovery stories. Write man vs wild stories (Hatchet, White Fang etc). Write a straight character. Write a gay character. If you're a guy, write a girl character. The amount of experimentation that you can do is ENDLESS. The key is to constantly push the envelope and give yourself stories that are a challenge to write. I love feudal China and wanted to write a sort of Chinese LotR. (In aesthetic only) That's what I'm doing now. That's not where I started though. My first story was about a dude who's dad was a Triad boss and it was about working as a foot soldier in the Triads during a turf war in Tokyo with one of the local gumis. I'd never even read a Triad book before but it was mad fun to do. I did a split perspective with the son of the Triad boss and the son of the Yakuza boss. It was hard but really fun. (Would not recommend more than one perspective for at least the first 2 years of writing though. It's VERY hard to do more than one PoV in a short story, and it takes a decently mature writer to pull off multiple PoVs even in a novel.) I think it's really important to learn and familiarize yourself with the tools and techniques of writing before you jump into something as huge as a novel. Also, the big problem with trying to emulate authors is you can never really do it. You are you. They are them. Style is more than just word choice, or a preference for certain metaphors, or a proclivity for lush imagery. Style is worldview. It's the eyes with which the writer sees the world. There are so many millions of choices in how you can write a single scene that it is impossible to truly copy another person's style. They can even try to teach you, and you can do a rough approximation, but there are so many choices a writer makes in the blink of an eye, instinctively, without even realizing they're making a choice at all because they think "Hell, that's just the way the world is." So, I would look at writers and ask "hey, what do I think he's doing that's effective?" Also ask "what feelings do I have when I read their work?" And try to examine why you think the writer's able to evoke that reaction in you. That's the best you can get out of another writer in terms of writing technique and style. For novels, you can look at other writers to see what kind of precedents there are in terms of plot structure, how many PoV characters, how to do multiple PoV's effectively, how many pages a scene usually is, basically looking at other novels gives you an idea for what the "standard" is. But really, I've seen everything under the sun make it to print. And I've seen wildly different styles still pull off fantastic stories just in very different ways. Some authors will write a 2 paragraph scene and that's it. Another writer needs 8 pages but he does so much more in that one scene. It all depends on your preference and style. Anyhow, gabbed a lot, so I'll leave it there for now | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
I'll touch on my process a little bit. My approach to ships is not very different than characters for the most part. I always start with sound. Music plays a very important role in my world; it is more powerful than words. Since I cannot use imagery to portray my billion kilometer engine of destruction, I rely on two things. - The character's perspective of the vessel, what they are feeling at that time, how it is presented to them, what their current engagements are, and what they look for. This is an antagonist vessel, and when it is encountered, the protagonists are witnessing it engaging another, neutral race (and ultimately obliterating them effortlessly). Since this is for my second book and I have not yet decided who or what will be present during this scene, I think on general terms. Is the character one of the Admirals? He's probably thinking about the ship's capabilities. It's big, it's got a central cannon, and it has all these crazy wing patterns and such. He's going to be thinking about where weapons could be located, what subsystems it might have, how such a beast operates. Is the character one of the scientists or philosophers? They might question how something so massive can move so fast without using psionic drives, they might wonder what purpose it fits in the antagonist's fleet when previously they have never fielded something like this before. Is the character one of the more passionate, emotional ones? He/she will probably feel great pity for those about to engage it. They're going to focus more on the silhouette of the ship as a whole and what it represents. For me, perspective is everything. There are a huge quantity of characters in my world and everyone sees things that much differently. Typically when I describe an alien ship that has not yet been encountered or is outside the understanding of the character's view, I aim for this kind of a description; A good description IMO: It was a terrifying starship, sleek and predatory with a cockpit that thrust forward like a falcon's beak and sharp-edged wings that splayed out from its body like a flower of death. Because to me this present emotion. The Xy`Kranasha, the race that created this monster, build insectoid ships riveted in segments with very aggressive features and posture. They're different than the Undead, who build ships designed to terrify their opponents, in that their ships just naturally come off as hostile. I reserve technical descriptions, like this one, Ofc there are other stylistic variations you can do: eg. It was a heavy destroyer built for deep-space combat with six unobtanium alloyed wings carrying a payload of fusion warheads powerful enough to make a new sun. It had the thrust capacity to go from zero to infinity with the flick of a switch and when the Grey Falcon's profile came up on the HUD, every pilot's suit within half a light-year would be venting turds into the waste disposal system. For when someone is considering one of their own vessels. For example, when one guy is admiring a new fighter before setting out on a self-righteous quest of vengeance, he considers each and every one of the dozen plus cannons it has, plus the features of the vessel that conceal hidden armaments or devices. He considers them with pride, even though the opponents he's about to face could kill him in an instant with far superior weaponry. It's simply the way he is; he doesn't fear death, in fact he welcomes it. It's a little bit of a difficult thing to describe. Through these descriptions I always provide the basic features of the object. For the ship in question, I would point out the three radial wings, the odd, crustacean-like (I'd have to find a specific one that meets the profile and figure out if that character would know of such a creature or not) flanking segments, and of course the big cannon that is ever so ominous at the very front. I'd remark about the pods and the segmented skin, the color, some glowing bits and how they contribute to the overall figure of the vessel, and then probably leave it at that. For this particular vessel I want to make a very specific image. For something like most of the Undead ships (which would be terribly difficult to describe in specifics anyway), I simply comment on their formations of spikes and their general shape, and leave the rest up to the reader. - The second thing that contributes to how I present something new is the energy in the scene. I best get into this mood through music. In my head, I visualize everything about a scene before I ever begin writing it. Sound, dialogue, picture, everything. Like a movie, as you say. Then, I give this scene energy through music. In this scene, our protagonists are not actively engaging this beast, but they are witnessing it unleash hell on earth upon the fools who have stood in its path. They will be terrified of what they see, and the carnage they witness. So, I establish sound. For this scene, we're probably thinking of something like this. My world is very dark, and the music I associate with it is heavily styled. Largely traditional bulgarian, arabic, choral, and gothic stuff. With the scene and music in my head, I aim to translate it. But not simply to translate it, but to translate the emotion behind the scene. Even an Admiral who thinks very technically won't be able to focus on the ship's individual features and potential gadgets when he is overwhelmed by the scene of this thing obliterating entire fleets and star systems just by carelessly ramming into them. He's going to be thinking, "oh shit what happens when they catch up with us". Then you must also contribute the overall feeling of what has been happening, and so forth. But you probably already know and do all that. Ultimately the difficulty I face is not how I choose to describe something, but what terms to use to describe that something. I find that is my most difficult challenge in all of writing. I have an extremely vivid imagination and I have invested over fourteen years, more than half my life, into this world's creation. Presenting that in a cohesive form, while retaining the open-ended features for readers to fill in themselves, is a great difficulty. Okay that ended up as kind of a rant on a tangent but hopefully you get a picture of how it is I approach things. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
I'm not a big fan of dictionary/thesaurus because people who use those to try to up their diction end up with horrible syntax. They use the words incorrectly or in a way that the connotation is just plain wrong. It takes reading books and seeing a word used 10-15x to really understand the context/connotation it's suitable for. Best of luck in your endeavor and 14 years is a very impressive investment of time. I hope everything turns out well | ||
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
On January 02 2010 01:30 StorkHwaiting wrote: Hmm, I think you've got a very good idea of how to go about description then. If the problem is that you just lack a large vocabulary, my only recommendation is to read a lot of books and learn a lot of new words. That's really the only way to learn words properly. I'm not a big fan of dictionary/thesaurus because people who use those to try to up their diction end up with horrible syntax. They use the words incorrectly or in a way that the connotation is just plain wrong. It takes reading books and seeing a word used 10-15x to really understand the context/connotation it's suitable for. Best of luck in your endeavor and 14 years is a very impressive investment of time. I hope everything turns out well Thanks :D I do use dictionary/thesaurus now whereas before I never did. But I mostly use it to research unfamiliar terms. I try to avoid throwing in "big words" in sections where I normally do not, because they sound forced and ultimately detract from the writing. I really do need to just read some more. That's what everyone says. It's hard for me to sit down and read, though. I need something interesting to read on the computer. I should read those wh40k novels I have in pdf format. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On January 02 2010 05:23 IskatuMesk wrote: Thanks :D I do use dictionary/thesaurus now whereas before I never did. But I mostly use it to research unfamiliar terms. I try to avoid throwing in "big words" in sections where I normally do not, because they sound forced and ultimately detract from the writing. I really do need to just read some more. That's what everyone says. It's hard for me to sit down and read, though. I need something interesting to read on the computer. I should read those wh40k novels I have in pdf format. Haha WH40K is probably not the best place to improve your diction. (I know the writers who write half of them LOL. Well, rather I know the guys who's name is on the book >.> I won't say any more than that about the WH40K stuff hahaha). Some great authors with strong diction in my opinion are: Guy Gavriel Kay China Mieville Melanie Rawn Peter F Hamilton Steven Brust Storm Constantine Jacqueline Carey In my opinion, most women authors are better in terms of diction when it comes to fantasy. Literary fiction is a whole other ballpark so I won't try to talk about that because I don't know enough. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On January 02 2010 05:04 starfries wrote: I saw this in the other thread so I came here to say congrats. and I have a question: how do you write convincing character development? I have no problem coming up with a plot but I always have one dimensional characters. If I try and work it in it ends up being painfully cheesy. Thank you very much starfries I think the #1 problem would be trying to fit characters into a plot. It doesn't really work well. Rather, start with characters that are interesting to you and then build a plot around what you think they would believably do. For me, I first try to come up with a setting, then a plot, then that gets me started on my general world. But then within that world, you MUST center your writing around an actual character because that's how people experience things, as people! So a character is really the most important aspect of a book in my opinion. Then I think you try to conceive of an interesting character that would fit the plot loosely. LOOSELY. Then build up a personality, background, etc for that character. Now start chapter 1. Ask yourself, what would my character be doing now. What do I want to express about the character. And as you go along you'll find that you will have to throw away many parts of your plot because they just don't make sense or fit what your character wants to do. That's fine. Throwing away plot is one of the best things you can do as a writer. This is because when you conceive of plot, it's most likely cliche. Why? Because it's the first thing you thought of. It's very likely to be the first thing many other writers thought of too. But after that what you can do is start to simulate the character in your mind and have the character make choices YOU think are believable. And funnily enough your personality and flair will start to color all the decisions your character and world make. Your writing is suddenly unique because nobody else thinks in quite the same way as you. To me, that's what makes the most inventive and unpredictable characters, hence making them fun to read. If you go into a writing project knowing what everyone's going to do from the start it becomes really boring for you. Like REALLY boring by page 60 and it will be boring for the reader too. Coz if you can guess it, so can they. Anyhow, that's my opinion on characters. I'm sure you'll get a thousand different ones from other writers, but hope it helps in some way | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On January 02 2010 02:05 LordWeird wrote: I really enjoy your writing style. You're also a Stork fan and that gives you 10/10 in my books. As somewhat of a writer myself, this is a particularly interesting blog. I am looking forward to hearing more about your endeavors. StorkHwaiting Hwaiting! Haha Stork fans unite!! And thanks for the compliment . I'll definitely keep you posted with my blog as things happen. Hoping for big things in 2010! | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On January 02 2010 04:08 Xeris wrote: i totally understand where you're coming from, I'm a writer myself and it's fucking hard T__T! i just submitted a manuscript of poetry for a book contest, i'll find out in march if I'm getting published oo! Wow, a poet. You have it sooo much harder than me lol. I feel for you man. Poetry is the pinnacle when it comes to hard as fuck to make happen. Sad thing about poetry is it just plain doesn't sell. At least here in the US of A. The best most poets can hope for is getting recognized by the literary community and then getting a professorship somewhere nice. They're really reliant on the patronage of academia. So best of luck my friend. Drop me a line or I'll look out for your blog in March, hopefully to read about some good news :D | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On December 29 2009 14:21 Xeofreestyler wrote: You should read the finals report on So1 OSL by manifesto. It's still in my mind as one of the most awesome battle reports because he visualized the 'story' of the game so beautifully. I bet if you'd combine your skills similarly with a bit of sc a lot of us would enjoy it greatly  maybe if you ever have any time or just wanna 'warm up' Haha this is a great idea. I'd be more than up for it if Stork makes it to the semis of any starleague . My heart just wouldn't be in it for anyone else XD. (I'm monogamous like that). | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
On January 02 2010 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote: Haha WH40K is probably not the best place to improve your diction. (I know the writers who write half of them LOL. Well, rather I know the guys who's name is on the book >.> I won't say any more than that about the WH40K stuff hahaha). Some great authors with strong diction in my opinion are: Guy Gavriel Kay China Mieville Melanie Rawn Peter F Hamilton Steven Brust Storm Constantine Jacqueline Carey In my opinion, most women authors are better in terms of diction when it comes to fantasy. Literary fiction is a whole other ballpark so I won't try to talk about that because I don't know enough. I'll have a look into those. It's hard enough for me to start reading things. I haven't read a novel start to finish in about eight years, now. But I'll have to try. | ||
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