EPTProtoss is OP - Page 2
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
On December 11 2009 19:09 lazz wrote: yeah, protoss have the least starleague wins of all the races, they're obviously the easiest race to play. Do you bring this up every time? On December 11 2009 19:43 Ftrunkz wrote: pvz is by far the hardest protoss mu (imo) Not really (it is your opinion though.) Unusually, my best matchups for each race are: ZvZ/ZvT TvP PvZ All are considered harder matchups. It's just how a person plays. I love PvZ, and find that you can win if you know what you do, but others find it very hard, and find PvT and the lead up to generally 1 big battle easier. It's preference. | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On December 11 2009 19:46 Camlito wrote: Do you bring this up every time? Not really (it is your opinion though.) Unusually, my best matchups for each race are: ZvZ/ZvT TvP PvZ All are considered harder matchups. It's just how a person plays. I love PvZ, and find that you can win if you know what you do, but others find it very hard, and find PvT and the lead up to generally 1 big battle easier. It's preference. PvZ is the hardest MU for toss... thats why of the 6 dragons only Bisu is actually good at PvZ while the others are alot better at PvT and PvP. all of them are like 50% PvZ and 60+PvT or PvP | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
Takes x10 more time than in BW and storm is 0.5 of the size | ||
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NonFactor
Sweden698 Posts
On December 11 2009 19:09 lazz wrote: yeah, protoss have the least starleague wins of all the races, they're obviously the easiest race to play. Bad argument. Try again. Protoss is still the easiest race, no doubt. Starleague winners are mainly decided by 2 factors: Players itself and map balance. While when comparing races: Protosses have the easiest time both macroing and microing. Ever tried microing an endgame with a Zerg? At times you can have more units then you have room for hotkeys, and if you micro them badly and A-move them, they form a line and roll into death. While Protoss can form a ball of death with no issues and only use 5 hotkeys or so. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On December 11 2009 21:00 NonFactor wrote: Bad argument. Try again. Protoss is still the easiest race, no doubt. Starleague winners are mainly decided by 2 factors: Players itself and map balance. While when comparing races: Protosses have the easiest time both macroing and microing. Ever tried microing an endgame with a Zerg? At times you can have more units then you have room for hotkeys, and if you micro them badly and A-move them, they form a line and roll into death. While Protoss can form a ball of death with no issues and only use 5 hotkeys or so. Your analysis is bad, and you should feel bad. | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
On December 11 2009 21:00 NonFactor wrote: Bad argument. Try again. Protoss is still the easiest race, no doubt. Starleague winners are mainly decided by 2 factors: Players itself and map balance. While when comparing races: Protosses have the easiest time both macroing and microing. Ever tried microing an endgame with a Zerg? At times you can have more units then you have room for hotkeys, and if you micro them badly and A-move them, they form a line and roll into death. While Protoss can form a ball of death with no issues and only use 5 hotkeys or so. when did I argue anything? I agreed with you! they have the least starleague wins and are therefore the easiest race! gosh you're silly | ||
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IceCube
Croatia1403 Posts
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ProbeSaturation
Canada292 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On December 11 2009 21:00 NonFactor wrote: Bad argument. Try again. Protoss is still the easiest race, no doubt. Starleague winners are mainly decided by 2 factors: Players itself and map balance. While when comparing races: Protosses have the easiest time both macroing and microing. Ever tried microing an endgame with a Zerg? At times you can have more units then you have room for hotkeys, and if you micro them badly and A-move them, they form a line and roll into death. While Protoss can form a ball of death with no issues and only use 5 hotkeys or so. Obviously you never played Toss. Or you would know how much micro P requires just to engage T army at equal firepower, if you 1a2a3a into T army, your entire army melts. You need to drag mines with zealots, use flanking, use shuttles to zealotbomb, storm before your HTs die from insane Tank range, Stasis all this vs. a Terran who lays mines in front, sieges up and waits, scans during battle, and EMP before battle. Oh, and don't even start with Macro, Protoss macro is harder than T macro. Why? Toss has more bases that it needs to take care of (for the same economy output) and it has more production buildings that it constantly needs to go back to. (14 gateways versus 9 facts?) Only reason people say Protoss is "easy" is that its "easy" in the lower levels. A noob can 1a2a3a and use DTs to win at D level. This isn't the case at upper levels. PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels imo. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
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jOke.Baka
United States62 Posts
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
tell him to play me | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On December 11 2009 23:21 AzureEye wrote: Obviously you never played Toss. Or you would know how much micro P requires just to engage T army at equal firepower, if you 1a2a3a into T army, your entire army melts. You need to drag mines with zealots, use flanking, use shuttles to zealotbomb, storm before your HTs die from insane Tank range, Stasis all this vs. a Terran who lays mines in front, sieges up and waits, scans during battle, and EMP before battle. Oh, and don't even start with Macro, Protoss macro is harder than T macro. Why? Toss has more bases that it needs to take care of (for the same economy output) and it has more production buildings that it constantly needs to go back to. (14 gateways versus 9 facts?) Only reason people say Protoss is "easy" is that its "easy" in the lower levels. A noob can 1a2a3a and use DTs to win at D level. This isn't the case at upper levels. PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels imo. This is completely wrong. Protoss macro is much simpler because you dont need to control units in small skirmishes at all. You can send like 5 zeals and a goon to my exp and not even watch it and rape shit whereas If I send several vultures all you need to do is suicide zeals and rape shit with your imba cannons ;d Since the demand on micro is much smaller for toss it in turn makes macro MUCH easier. MUCH. All you need to do is try to set up a flank and right click zealots to drag mines......ohhhhh its hard. You cant even micro tanks properly because as soon as shit gets out of range they switch targets so say something moves out of range right before they get their shot off they might shoot he damn zealot that ran into your other tanks. At high level every race is hard. Protoss is much easier on a non korean level which is why you see so many god damn protoss players and such few terran players. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On December 11 2009 19:33 win8282 wrote: OP says PvZ is easy. hmm.... Hell yes it is at low level  Can make it yellow ranks without ever using a templar, and I'm a baddie. | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
On December 11 2009 23:56 EtherealDeath wrote: Hell yes it is at low level Can make it yellow ranks without ever using a templar, and I'm a baddie. Well you can make blue ranks with only lings. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On December 11 2009 23:51 Sadist wrote: This is completely wrong. Protoss macro is much simpler because you dont need to control units in small skirmishes at all. You can send like 5 zeals and a goon to my exp and not even watch it and rape shit whereas If I send several vultures all you need to do is suicide zeals and rape shit with your imba cannons ;d Since the demand on micro is much smaller for toss it in turn makes macro MUCH easier. MUCH. All you need to do is try to set up a flank and right click zealots to drag mines......ohhhhh its hard. You cant even micro tanks properly because as soon as shit gets out of range they switch targets so say something moves out of range right before they get their shot off they might shoot he damn zealot that ran into your other tanks. At high level every race is hard. Protoss is much easier on a non korean level which is why you see so many god damn protoss players and such few terran players. 5 zealots and a goon running toward a Terran expo without control will die before it even gets there to mines. Well you're picking off workers with your vultures, mineral line harrassment all need some kind of babysitting. Reaver drops, HT drops, zealot drops, etc. At least you can not have to worry about trying to save your vultures while harrassing. Because they're so goddamn cheap, you can just pop a billion more. HT drops? I need to worry about micro'ing to save their slow asses with the slow shuttles Demand on micro is not much smaller. Actually at a higher level of play, I think P needs more micro than T will. Vultures lay mines all over the map with a few simple clicks while P needs to bring observers and match its speed with its army to diffuse all the surrounding mines. (You can just send few zealots to clear the field but you can't do that for the entire map, plus you're wasting units) Heard of Shift + A click for micro'ing tanks? Don't worry, with your insane upgrades and superior firepower, you will melt the Toss army without using tank micro 99% of the time. Since I concluded that P micro is more work than T micro, I guess that kills your argument of macro too? | ||
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On December 12 2009 00:04 AzureEye wrote: 5 zealots and a goon running toward a Terran expo without control will die before it even gets there to mines. Well you're picking off workers with your vultures, mineral line harrassment all need some kind of babysitting. Reaver drops, HT drops, zealot drops, etc. At least you can not have to worry about trying to save your vultures while harrassing. Because they're so goddamn cheap, you can just pop a billion more. HT drops? I need to worry about micro'ing to save their slow asses with the slow shuttles Demand on micro is not much smaller. Actually at a higher level of play, I think P needs more micro than T will. Vultures lay mines all over the map with a few simple clicks while P needs to bring observers and match its speed with its army to diffuse all the surrounding mines. (You can just send few zealots to clear the field but you can't do that for the entire map, plus you're wasting units) Heard of Shift + A click for micro'ing tanks? Don't worry, with your insane upgrades and superior firepower, you will melt the Toss army without using tank micro 99% of the time. Since I concluded that P micro is more work than T micro, I guess that kills your argument of macro too? No. You are forgetting that protoss can run since they are signifnicantly more mobile and have fucking huge amounts of hit points. If I send a small group of tanks across the map to try to take out an expo or something you can easily intercept them and i cant run them and in turn have to try to micro them to get the most out of them while you a click. Protoss can inherently waste way more units since they have more expansions than terran anyway so you dont NEED To micro as much. Theres a ton of factors that make protoss macro MUCH simpler than terran macro. Positioning is what makes t micro so difficult vs protoss. Obviously if you are already set up as terran that isnt much shit to do. Defense almost always has the advantage in bw. That being said its MUCH more difficult to ATTACK as terran than protoss. 1 missed volley and your entire army can get fucking owned. | ||
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