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I've been playing games on ICCup tonight, and I'm totally frustrated with the games I lost.
First game, he went 14 nexus into shuttle DTs. -.- How do you even... God. I hate 14 nexus so much, I hate shuttle DTs even more (we were close position on python), and to top it all off, I scouted him last. Looks like someone definitely put two and two together. There was no way I could have been prepared for that. On top of it all though, even if he hadn't gone for the shuttle DTs, I still would have been behind because of his stall at my expo with a pylon. I don't care how much you might think it puts him behind-- he's running on 2 expos, AND can still cancel it before I manage to get enough units there to actually reduce its increasing HP. Then shuttle drop in my main, kill the turrets by my mineral line, pew, pew, pew, I'm dead.
Zerg is equally impressive with his build order. Naturally, I scout him last like the protoss, but this zerg decides to 9 pool, and KEEP BUILDING ZERGLINGS. He moves out moments after I arrive at his base. I threw down another rax (though I knew it wouldn't finish even remotely in time), and grabbed SCVs to block my ramp. It seems though, that I would have had to have pulled at least 8 or 9 to hold off that many zerglings for my few marines to shoot. In the end, the lings rip through my ramp, and I lose another.
I also lost twice to three hatch lings. I still have no idea what to do against that, even when I see the lings hatching with my scouting SCV.
What. The. Fuck?
I'm so frustrated.
P.S.: Does Terran generally do lame stuff against other races too? Are these Protosses and Zergs just playing nonstandard in response to most Terrans playing nonstandard? I don't off-race often, so I only get to play Terran TvT (and marine cheese is generally defensible with vults).
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Because D level terrans are much worse than their Protoss/Zerg counterparts imo
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On November 25 2009 16:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Because D level terrans are much worse than their Protoss/Zerg counterparts imo
Lol no. It's because anyone above D has some resemblance of micro, which counters the early game unit imbalances.
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Solution to scouting on 4 player maps: use 2 SCVs like the pros.
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change it to D rank terrans.
Above the D ranks, ZvT can be... let's just say not fun aswell.
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10319 Posts
D level Terrans can't deal with shit D level P/Z throw at them is what he meant IMO. Noob terrans are easy to abuse because they don't know turret and scan timings.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Except that if you learn to properly defend this stuff, it's usually a win for you. As a terran, I'm really sorry that IdrA keeps setting such a terrible example by whining nonstop about cheese. One of protoss's main attributes is the ability to cheese, and so you just have to deal. Yeah, deal. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just a clever (or sometimes poorly done) strategy like any other.
It sucks, and you just have to learn from it and recognize it and beat it when it happens again.
I'm sick of terran players complaining-- protoss are supposed to be the race that does this, not terran.
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people who play starcraft like you do make me sad.
you're missing out on so much of this game.
it's not as mind-numbing as FE into 6 facts macro. You can do a lot of things. try some of them.
like:
1) not Fast Expanding!
2) doing a nuke rush!
3) doing a hyper agressive build where you don't make any more than 20 scv's, and you don't expand until your base runs out!
Out of all the races, Terran has the greatest chance of winning without expanding. try it! it's so much fun.
Infact, i'm going to create another account just to see how far i can get with terran without fast expanding! i'm guessing about C-!
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I was doing good on ICCUP then 7 games in a row against Z => 7 losses to gay mutas/mass hydra/lings, my macro and scouting was good IMO but damn it´s just imba :S
Also I slept like 2 hours so I might be delusional...
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Terrans just need to cheese more back
BBS, vulture rushes and 2fact BO's are all legitimate strategies (or vs zerg, an 8 rax)
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There has ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) Always been an answer to that - if you blame the race, switch to the ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) imba one.
edit: edit
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On November 25 2009 16:58 Mora wrote:
people who play starcraft like you do make me sad.
you're missing out on so much of this game.
it's not as mind-numbing as FE into 6 facts macro. You can do a lot of things. try some of them.
like:
1) not Fast Expanding!
2) doing a nuke rush!
3) doing a hyper agressive build where you don't make any more than 20 scv's, and you don't expand until your base runs out!
Out of all the races, Terran has the greatest chance of winning without expanding. try it! it's so much fun.
Infact, i'm going to create another account just to see how far i can get with terran without fast expanding! i'm guessing about C-!
problem is unit control with terran especially early game is absolutely brutal.
Terran units early on are far and away the worst units when no or minimal micro is involved. People have gotten significantly better at microing against terran shit (read goons vs marines, vuls etc) that its gotten ridiculous and its almost impossible to hurt someone early on unless they get caught horribly out of position.
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On November 25 2009 16:58 Mora wrote:
people who play starcraft like you do make me sad.
you're missing out on so much of this game.
it's not as mind-numbing as FE into 6 facts macro. You can do a lot of things. try some of them.
like:
1) not Fast Expanding!
2) doing a nuke rush!
3) doing a hyper agressive build where you don't make any more than 20 scv's, and you don't expand until your base runs out!
Out of all the races, Terran has the greatest chance of winning without expanding. try it! it's so much fun.
Infact, i'm going to create another account just to see how far i can get with terran without fast expanding! i'm guessing about C-!
it seems, at least D/D+ ranks, every terran and protoss only know how to fast expand, like early game play has been completely written out of existence. it's really boring sometimes : (
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Whats funny is when a terran sends a whole key group of vultures to harass your expos and it doesn't even matter because he has so much money. and ALL your probes die.,
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Terrans would be lamers too if their TvP cheese wasn't so weak, and their TvZ cheese countered by the most popular zerg overpool opening. They can't win with strong cheeses so instead they whine about how imbalanced it is.
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On November 25 2009 17:05 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 16:58 Mora wrote:
people who play starcraft like you do make me sad.
you're missing out on so much of this game.
it's not as mind-numbing as FE into 6 facts macro. You can do a lot of things. try some of them.
like:
1) not Fast Expanding!
2) doing a nuke rush!
3) doing a hyper agressive build where you don't make any more than 20 scv's, and you don't expand until your base runs out!
Out of all the races, Terran has the greatest chance of winning without expanding. try it! it's so much fun.
Infact, i'm going to create another account just to see how far i can get with terran without fast expanding! i'm guessing about C-! problem is unit control with terran especially early game is absolutely brutal. Terran units early on are far and away the worst units when no or minimal micro is involved. People have gotten significantly better at microing against terran shit (read goons vs marines, vuls etc) that its gotten ridiculous and its almost impossible to hurt someone early on unless they get caught horribly out of position.
i definitely don't disagree with you.
i'm just saying, playing the standard meta game = you lose
vs
playing the way you want to and learn other skills that you will need anyways = you lose but have fun.
and i'm not even saying that playing standard isn't fun, it just completely removes the creative side of this game, which is such a shame. SC isn't just an evolved optimized 11 year old build order, it's so much more than that. Newer players only experience it as the former though. 
i realize i was never very good in the big scope of things, but i managed to get decent off of 2-base zerg play, being able to take games off of most foreigners (if not consistently, at least inconsistently). While these new optimized builds rape my 2-base zerg without contest, i certainly don't regret playing how i did.
maybe i'm just an old player who's clinging on to dear old-school. However, i am excited for sc2, if for no other reason than it won't degenerate into sc in less than 2 years. Creativity and Experimenting will not only be fun, but viable, at least for a little while.
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what's with this whole 'terran cheese is weak' horse shit.
4 vulture drop main
2 port wraith
m&m drop
science vessels. always.
medic walls
quick vult speed harass vs zerg
science vessels.
lol
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On November 25 2009 17:53 Mora wrote:
what's with this whole 'terran cheese is weak' horse shit.
4 vulture drop main
2 port wraith
m&m drop
science vessels. always.
medic walls
quick vult speed harass vs zerg
science vessels.
lol
yes!
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EPT
