EPTI need a controversial topic to discuss - Page 3
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
This is a fundamental historiographical problem which serious and dedicated German historians have been struggling with for over three decades. To say that Hitler fulfilled certain Carlylean anticipations of greatness, and Goethe's visions of the daemonic, is too obvious to deserve mention. The latter connection was already noted by Hitler's earliest serious biographer, Konrad Heiden. However, the contemporary problem springs mainly from the attempts by various historians in West Germany during the 70s to clarify and historicize National Socialism decades after the event. The problem of Hitler's "greatness" is probably most famously highlighted in the introduction to Fest's 1973 biography of Hitler, wherein Fest struggles with this question amid speculation of Hitler's probable greatness had he died or been assassinated in 1938. His contemporary Sebastian Haffner, the great essayist of National Socialism, dealt with the very same semantic AND moral question in his important essay on Hitler. In the latter part of the previous decade, Percy Ernst-Schramm had already dedicated a portion of his thoughtful essay on Hitler's political and military skill to this question. Even his conservative biographer Walter Görlitz, writing in the immediate post-war period, admitted in his condemnatory biography Hitler's exceptionalism (the issue of Greatness was not yet current.) In short, this question is neither superficial, nor is it a "trolling" observation. It's something which is now engraved in German historiography, and that the majority of Germans are disinterested in the subject, or ready to accept or pay lip service the most pallid cliches about their past, is a matter which should be probed under the lens of controversy. I mean, even the late George Kennan recognized Hitler's greatness, if greatness is a quality completely separate from sainthood. | ||
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Always
United States376 Posts
.. Cause you know.. That's gonna happen. Right? | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On November 12 2009 05:44 FirstBorn wrote: ahahaha so good Especially since I remember Hitler being an austrian. But you should know that the greatest national figures often come from national fringes: thus the greatest Greek was a Macedon, the greatest Frenchman a Corsican. Stalin the Georgian became a Great Russian, Colbert the half-blood became a great French patriot, the Germanic chieftains of the 4th century took pride in their Roman titles, etc. etc. From youth, Hitler identified himself spiritually with the German nation, and not the Habsburg Empire: "I was a Nationalist, but I was not a patriot," he would recall in Mein Kampf. | ||
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FirstBorn
Romania3955 Posts
On November 12 2009 06:50 Always wrote: You guys could talk about how badly the world will get owned in 2012. .. Cause you know.. That's gonna happen. Right? Ofc, the internet says so. On November 12 2009 06:57 MoltkeWarding wrote: But you should know that the greatest national figures often come from national fringes: thus the greatest Greek was a Macedon, the greatest Frenchman a Corsican. Stalin the Georgian became a Great Russian, Colbert the half-blood became a great French patriot, the Germanic chieftains of the 4th century took pride in their Roman titles, etc. etc. From youth, Hitler identified himself spiritually with the German nation, and not the Habsburg Empire: "I was a Nationalist, but I was not a patriot," he would recall in Mein Kampf. True, yet I still find this and his support to the Arrian concept somewhat ironic. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Guaranteed to create hostile arguments. Beware of angry PMSin bitches n shit yo | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5111 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Steelflight-Rx
United States1389 Posts
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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29 fps
United States5719 Posts
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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
Or all of them. | ||
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MK
United States496 Posts
Sarkozy inside. | ||
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ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
OR internet dating: the future? | ||
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Spike
United States1392 Posts
health care bill women and the infantry abortion eZ | ||
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Gnarly
United States151 Posts
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seppolevne
Canada1681 Posts
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
On November 13 2009 03:14 Gnarly wrote: Obama - Should he get kicked out of the White House? Seriously, this is the largest topic anyway in the news. What channel are you watching? Fox news? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32026 Posts
On November 12 2009 05:49 Ganfei wrote: Moltke succeeds in making me want to punch him every time his self-fellatio performing smug asshole face shows up If you take out all the obviously horrible things he did, Hitler did completely restore a nation that was basically screwed after WWI and totally unified it (hence Moltke saying if he were assassinated in 1938, what would people think of him? He'd probably be just another racist and not at the helm of a genocide). Pretty much everyone agrees he was a damn good speaker as well. I mean, I think all the shit he did means he can't be the greatest, but he certainly did a lot of good for the country prior to all the atrocities. Quasi-related: An old timer just stopped by my work and gave me a big, old book from Germany detailing the '36 Olympics in Berlin. I can't read a word of it, but the pictures are awesome. | ||
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Undisputed-
United States379 Posts
On November 12 2009 03:26 daz wrote: if you're American you could talk about how Americans are brainwashed since childhood to think of socialism as incredibly evil and to reject any idea which might even border on socialism while every year socialist countries are dominating every kind of living standards measurement Or how generations born into socialist/communist regimes feel the need to validate their government controlled, passive aggressive existence by arguing about how the leading economic, political, and cultural force in the world is doing it wrong. | ||
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