• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:12
CEST 20:12
KST 03:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"2ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!24Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)90
StarCraft 2
General
What's the best tug of war? Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL22 General Discussion BW General Discussion How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut? Animated Gateway
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Games can Help with Majo…
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3821 users

Welfare Economics Problem

Blogs > Milton Friedman
Post a Reply
Milton Friedman
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
98 Posts
October 27 2009 09:15 GMT
#1
Inspired by someone else's microeconomics question and Savio complaining he's always too late to solve these questions I thought it'd be nice to post up a problem Mankiw wrote on his blog, which he claims he'll be using in his class:

"Here is a question I will be asking my freshman seminar this week:

You are a utilitarian social planner. You have a limited number of H1N1 vaccines. How do you allocate them? Do you (A) give them to specific groups, such as high-risk populations, or (B) sell them to the highest bidder and rebate the revenue lump-sum to everyone? If you choose (A), do you allow those individuals allocated the vaccine to sell their dose to someone else? Be sure to specify the economic environment as carefully as possible. And remember: Your goal is to maximize total utility."

Welfare economics is not my forte, but that won't stop me commenting later on. First, I welcome discussion from anyone, especially Savio.

Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 09:33:59
October 27 2009 09:30 GMT
#2
Need more bio related data ? ( mortality rate etc ... )

(A) -> Coase theorem ?
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Milton Friedman
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
98 Posts
October 27 2009 09:48 GMT
#3
I think individual utility is something you model. You are also a social planner, who traditionally knows everyone's utility (since you are modeling it) which should mean Coase is not needed. You plan for these helpless masses.
DIMJkE
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Bulgaria425 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 11:37:36
October 27 2009 10:25 GMT
#4
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
October 27 2009 11:00 GMT
#5
I personally assume that everyone values their own life equally. I know that's often not a realistic assumption, but it's the only way to solve this problem that I know of.

If we make that assumption, the obvious solution is to distribute to high risk populations since if we take the commonly cited $7.4 million per human life figure it's waaaay more worth it to save the lives that we do than to auction off the vaccines.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17800 Posts
October 27 2009 11:09 GMT
#6
It's economics or ethics question?
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
October 27 2009 11:17 GMT
#7
Since he's asking his freshmen, I don't think it's a question that's supposed to have a definite answer. Like Manitou said, it's more of an ethics question than economics, because we aren't given any data about the population, their preferences, and their utility functions.

My guess would be to evaluate if the high risk groups are able to pay for the vaccine and determine how many of them will be able to afford it, if you go route B. The problem with B is that you might end up with hoarding and very few people will actually get the vaccine, so you're being a pretty shitty social planner.

I would probably go with A, and allow them to sell the vaccine - i.e. self-discriminate. This ensures that everyone in the high risk category is given the opportunity for a vaccine, but also allows them to self-optimize and take personal risk (getting sick) in exchange for personal gain.
Milton Friedman
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
98 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 12:30:18
October 27 2009 12:29 GMT
#8
But discussing the ethics is so uninteresting Also ethics are too open ended. I'm sure there is a definitive answer once you define the individual utilities and the social planner's utility function.

DIMJkE, I don't know why you edited your post. Yes, I have read his paper on taxing height - I thought it made a very nice point and since it concerns the issue of welfare economics and distribution it's not that off topic.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17800 Posts
October 27 2009 13:15 GMT
#9
On October 27 2009 21:29 Milton Friedman wrote:
But discussing the ethics is so uninteresting


But discussing the economics is so uninteresting
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
magicbullet
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Singapore163 Posts
October 27 2009 15:39 GMT
#10
you are a utilitarian. Nobody's welfare is more important anyone else. The allocation should be as such that total utility is maximized. In this case i feel that utility in plan a>b, but since the question does not allow for calculation, there is no correct answer

In the long run we are all dead - J.M. Keynes
WhiteNights
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States252 Posts
October 27 2009 16:49 GMT
#11
Are these the only two choices?

Total utility can arise in two ways - from the allocation of vaccines, the obvious one, and from the redistribution of wealth. Theoretically one would have to compare the utility of the N people who would derive the greatest utility from having the vaccine, and compare this to the utility of the N people who would buy the vaccine, and add that to the loss of utility associated with said person's purchase of the vaccine, and add the utility associated with the lump-sum rebate (which should be overall positive, because presumably the person able to bid for the vaccine is richer than the general populace, and because of diminishing marginal utility of money.)

One also has to consider the benefit to society based on having the high-risk population vaccinated (to reduce transmission of the disease, as opposing to having a low-risk population eventually vaccinated.)
May your sky be always clear, may your smile be always bright, and may you be forever blessed for that moment of happiness which you gave to another lonely and grateful heart!
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
October 27 2009 18:00 GMT
#12
I am proud to be part of a forum where Milton Friedman comes to ask for insight to economics problems
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Phrujbaz
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Netherlands512 Posts
October 27 2009 19:40 GMT
#13
If you assume everyone is educated enough to know the true value of the options offered to them (a high-risk person that wants the money to send his kid to a good school can correctly balance the trade-off) then the problem is easy.

Give the vaccine to the high-risk people (since they are likely to have the most utility from it) and then allow them to sell it, so if they have bigger utility from money they can trade.
Caution! Future approaching rapidly at a rate of about 60 seconds per minute.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21245 Posts
October 27 2009 19:50 GMT
#14
On October 28 2009 03:00 heyoka wrote:
I am proud to be part of a forum where Milton Friedman comes to ask for insight to economics problems


He even posted on my threads! :D

We really need more background information to make an economics decision here I feel, right now it really is, as people have said, just an ethics problem.
TranslatorBaa!
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
October 27 2009 20:00 GMT
#15
On October 28 2009 03:00 heyoka wrote:
I am proud to be part of a forum where Milton Friedman comes to ask for insight to economics problems

I guess death made his brain rot out.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
October 27 2009 20:23 GMT
#16
On October 27 2009 20:00 motbob wrote:
I personally assume that everyone values their own life equally. I know that's often not a realistic assumption, but it's the only way to solve this problem that I know of.

If we make that assumption, the obvious solution is to distribute to high risk populations since if we take the commonly cited $7.4 million per human life figure it's waaaay more worth it to save the lives that we do than to auction off the vaccines.


I doubt it's actually that high. You could take what the average person earns in their lifetime and add to that however much it cost to feed them and house them until they started working. It should add up to about 1.5$ million for US.
But it's still much much higher than what anyone would pay for the vaccine, even if you discount the revenue stream of lifetime earnings.

So yeah option A all the way, and allow them to sell.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 27 2009 20:40 GMT
#17
im an economics major
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#123
Soulspirit vs goblin
TriGGeR vs Bunny
RotterdaM911
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 911
BRAT_OK 98
ProTech81
RushiSC 36
MindelVK 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Mong 179
ggaemo 171
Dewaltoss 139
Hyun 39
Bale 38
JYJ 31
Rock 24
NotJumperer 19
Noble 16
IntoTheRainbow 15
Counter-Strike
fl0m5168
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu70
KnowMe65
Other Games
singsing2414
Grubby1655
B2W.Neo537
TKL 238
C9.Mang0208
CosmosSc2 100
ArmadaUGS94
JuggernautJason75
QueenE72
XaKoH 71
Trikslyr65
XcaliburYe47
UpATreeSC47
SteadfastSC15
Rex15
Organizations
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 459
angryscii 15
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 32
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1589
• Nemesis1582
Other Games
• imaqtpie393
• Shiphtur378
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 48m
Replay Cast
6h 18m
Korean StarCraft League
8h 48m
Afreeca Starleague
9h 48m
RSL Revival
14h 48m
Serral vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Online Event
20h 48m
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
OSC
1d 17h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
INu's Battles
3 days
Cure vs herO
ByuN vs Rogue
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Patches Events
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-22
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W4
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.