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Played a good TZ vs PZ just now. Admittedly it's not an A++ game or anything, but since I am somewhat out of shape right now I thought I did quite well.
Things that I did well: Quite a few good EMPs, good MM splits vs storms, good irradiates, fast upgrades, good reconnaissance.
Things I did badly: Not ENOUGH EMPs/irradiates. Recently I've always forgotten to make my 2nd vessel after the first one for awhile. Get better at controlling tanks without having them in my SK hotkey set up. Slow down on the attack-commands, sometimes my marines wander off to the side or move when I want them to attack because my clicks/hotkeys are not synchronized.
Things that are annoying: T has to play 50x harder than P in TZ vs PZ. Irradiate, EMP, are hard to do vs goons/cannons. It's almost impossible for TZ to straight up KILL PZ if they choose to play extremely turtle-y with a thousand cannons and HT and whatever. You can bring some tanks but they can sac units for the tanks, storm the tanks, whatever. Defending the tanks with MM is very hard because then your MM will get stormed. So you can get way way ahead or control the map but you can't get in there and KILL them.
Anyways here's the replay (I am the terran):
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=21309
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High Templar, Dark Templar, Photon Cannon and Reaver are nasty bitches of Protoss.
On the other hand everything else is really weak.
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On September 20 2009 17:35 village_idiot wrote:
High Templar, Dark Templar, Photon Cannon and Reaver are nasty bitches of Protoss.
On the other hand everything else is really weak.
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So since you always say how mnm > all in TZ vs PZ, I've been using it, but it's hard. I lost in a 2v1 situation on Garden of God because I didn't have the multitasking to control the map while retaking my dead ally's space for the resources. And, according to my ally, I suck at 1a2a3a :<
The enemy P wasn't even using storms, just pure zealot/goon, and threw in a random carrier, which my mnm mostly took care of. ~_~
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On September 20 2009 19:37 Thesecretaznman wrote:
So since you always say how mnm > all in TZ vs PZ, I've been using it, but it's hard. I lost in a 2v1 situation on Garden of God because I didn't have the multitasking to control the map while retaking my dead ally's space for the resources. And, according to my ally, I suck at 1a2a3a :<
The enemy P wasn't even using storms, just pure zealot/goon, and threw in a random carrier, which my mnm mostly took care of. ~_~
Well that's why you practice, right? I go expo vs P even if it's easier to bunker him, because I want to practice SK terran control vs P. It's also more satisfying to go toe-to-toe and win a fight MM vs P. I really should have had another port in that game, but often in 2v2 you have to design your base for early game and then it kind sucks for late game, I didn't have any convenient spot for a 2nd port and I was too busy with my units so I never got around to it.
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For me, bio vs a P who knows how to use storm is pretty much automatic GG...
No matter how hard I macro, eventually your bases run out and you can't really play both the attrition game while holding onto a third...T_T
How do you do it?
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On September 20 2009 19:48 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2009 19:37 Thesecretaznman wrote:
So since you always say how mnm > all in TZ vs PZ, I've been using it, but it's hard. I lost in a 2v1 situation on Garden of God because I didn't have the multitasking to control the map while retaking my dead ally's space for the resources. And, according to my ally, I suck at 1a2a3a :<
The enemy P wasn't even using storms, just pure zealot/goon, and threw in a random carrier, which my mnm mostly took care of. ~_~ Well that's why you practice, right? I go expo vs P even if it's easier to bunker him, because I want to practice SK terran control vs P. It's also more satisfying to go toe-to-toe and win a fight MM vs P. I really should have had another port in that game, but often in 2v2 you have to design your base for early game and then it kind sucks for late game, I didn't have any convenient spot for a 2nd port and I was too busy with my units so I never got around to it.
Exactly, and I noticed that lack of 2nd port ~_~
On September 20 2009 20:13 PH wrote:
For me, bio vs a P who knows how to use storm is pretty much automatic GG...
No matter how hard I macro, eventually your bases run out and you can't really play both the attrition game while holding onto a third...T_T
How do you do it?
Don't play a game of attrition? There are games I think I could've won if I were just a little more careful with my mnm forces. Sure, they're cheap, but you still want to do maximum damage every time you lose control groups. If it gets to the stage where you know you are losing a lot of mnm, but the game is at a standstill, maybe start expoing/adding tech like tanks/mines. If your enemy is making the mistake of not sunkening his expo, drop it (yes, my enemies at the D level do that. ~_~)
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On September 20 2009 20:13 PH wrote:
For me, bio vs a P who knows how to use storm is pretty much automatic GG...
No matter how hard I macro, eventually your bases run out and you can't really play both the attrition game while holding onto a third...T_T
How do you do it?
With a lot of practice, frustration, and losses 
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I really like getting 2 fac quickly (2 rax opening, of course) and getting a lot of tanks up quickly, keeping my vessel count low. If my Z partner is worth his weight, I shouldn't have to worry about having the enemy Zerg throw hive tech at me so I don't need mass vessel, just 1-2.
Using mnm is a bitch vs P, but so long as I remember to spread my tanks well it should be okay.
Getting 1 armory for tank attack upgrades in a long game should help some too.
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On September 20 2009 23:38 Mortality wrote:
I really like getting 2 fac quickly (2 rax opening, of course) and getting a lot of tanks up quickly, keeping my vessel count low. If my Z partner is worth his weight, I shouldn't have to worry about having the enemy Zerg throw hive tech at me so I don't need mass vessel, just 1-2.
Using mnm is a bitch vs P, but so long as I remember to spread my tanks well it should be okay.
Getting 1 armory for tank attack upgrades in a long game should help some too.
I'd only be able to get away with this if my ally was wayyyy ahead in mutas
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usually when its TZ v PZ i just 2 rax in start than switch to earlyfactory than tech cause mm blows ass in late game T.T. and then just do bio drop while turtle and help your ally expand. i wish i had my cpu i have some reps of some great 2:2 games. byw NoobsOfWrath whats your iccup ID?
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On September 21 2009 09:32 CoOl]1st[ wrote:
usually when its TZ v PZ i just 2 rax in start than switch to earlyfactory than tech cause mm blows ass in late game T.T. and then just do bio drop while turtle and help your ally expand. i wish i had my cpu i have some reps of some great 2:2 games. byw NoobsOfWrath whats your iccup ID?
I don't want to say you're wrong or argue with you but this cannot work vs a remotely decent team unless your ally has 500 mutas when their zerg does not even have a lair yet.
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not true at all. i wont 3-2 vs LJT/Xiaozi with this (not bragging) when i get my cpu back id be happy to share replays. i guess i didnt describe it well enough.
whats your iccup ID?
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I'd be glad to see the replays, as it stands right now I don't understand how you can swap to tech without dying if your ally isn't ahead in mutas. My ID on iccup is Smashed, but I use a lot of names and I play P/T/Z on different accounts.
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its not like a straight swap its like you slowly stop making MM as you factory count increases, and you bunker for your ally so he can have gas advantage. u stop making MM around 4-5 fact, and then you just start MM dropping with what you have left, or you can just keep making mm for ground support whatever you please.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6439/87810302.png)
