• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:58
CET 09:58
KST 17:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1043 users

2v2 game, TZ vs PZ

Blogs > NoobsOfWrath
Post a Reply
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
September 20 2009 06:54 GMT
#1
Played a good TZ vs PZ just now. Admittedly it's not an A++ game or anything, but since I am somewhat out of shape right now I thought I did quite well.

Things that I did well: Quite a few good EMPs, good MM splits vs storms, good irradiates, fast upgrades, good reconnaissance.

Things I did badly: Not ENOUGH EMPs/irradiates. Recently I've always forgotten to make my 2nd vessel after the first one for awhile. Get better at controlling tanks without having them in my SK hotkey set up. Slow down on the attack-commands, sometimes my marines wander off to the side or move when I want them to attack because my clicks/hotkeys are not synchronized.

Things that are annoying: T has to play 50x harder than P in TZ vs PZ. Irradiate, EMP, are hard to do vs goons/cannons. It's almost impossible for TZ to straight up KILL PZ if they choose to play extremely turtle-y with a thousand cannons and HT and whatever. You can bring some tanks but they can sac units for the tanks, storm the tanks, whatever. Defending the tanks with MM is very hard because then your MM will get stormed. So you can get way way ahead or control the map but you can't get in there and KILL them.

Anyways here's the replay (I am the terran):

http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=21309


*****
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
September 20 2009 08:35 GMT
#2
High Templar, Dark Templar, Photon Cannon and Reaver are nasty bitches of Protoss.

On the other hand everything else is really weak.
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
September 20 2009 09:02 GMT
#3
On September 20 2009 17:35 village_idiot wrote:
High Templar, Dark Templar, Photon Cannon and Reaver are nasty bitches of Protoss.

On the other hand everything else is really weak.

[image loading]
doktorLucifer
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States855 Posts
September 20 2009 10:37 GMT
#4
So since you always say how mnm > all in TZ vs PZ, I've been using it, but it's hard. I lost in a 2v1 situation on Garden of God because I didn't have the multitasking to control the map while retaking my dead ally's space for the resources. And, according to my ally, I suck at 1a2a3a :<

The enemy P wasn't even using storms, just pure zealot/goon, and threw in a random carrier, which my mnm mostly took care of. ~_~
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-20 10:49:21
September 20 2009 10:48 GMT
#5
On September 20 2009 19:37 Thesecretaznman wrote:
So since you always say how mnm > all in TZ vs PZ, I've been using it, but it's hard. I lost in a 2v1 situation on Garden of God because I didn't have the multitasking to control the map while retaking my dead ally's space for the resources. And, according to my ally, I suck at 1a2a3a :<

The enemy P wasn't even using storms, just pure zealot/goon, and threw in a random carrier, which my mnm mostly took care of. ~_~


Well that's why you practice, right? I go expo vs P even if it's easier to bunker him, because I want to practice SK terran control vs P. It's also more satisfying to go toe-to-toe and win a fight MM vs P. I really should have had another port in that game, but often in 2v2 you have to design your base for early game and then it kind sucks for late game, I didn't have any convenient spot for a 2nd port and I was too busy with my units so I never got around to it.
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
September 20 2009 11:13 GMT
#6
For me, bio vs a P who knows how to use storm is pretty much automatic GG...

No matter how hard I macro, eventually your bases run out and you can't really play both the attrition game while holding onto a third...T_T

How do you do it?
Hello
doktorLucifer
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States855 Posts
September 20 2009 12:06 GMT
#7
On September 20 2009 19:48 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2009 19:37 Thesecretaznman wrote:
So since you always say how mnm > all in TZ vs PZ, I've been using it, but it's hard. I lost in a 2v1 situation on Garden of God because I didn't have the multitasking to control the map while retaking my dead ally's space for the resources. And, according to my ally, I suck at 1a2a3a :<

The enemy P wasn't even using storms, just pure zealot/goon, and threw in a random carrier, which my mnm mostly took care of. ~_~


Well that's why you practice, right? I go expo vs P even if it's easier to bunker him, because I want to practice SK terran control vs P. It's also more satisfying to go toe-to-toe and win a fight MM vs P. I really should have had another port in that game, but often in 2v2 you have to design your base for early game and then it kind sucks for late game, I didn't have any convenient spot for a 2nd port and I was too busy with my units so I never got around to it.


Exactly, and I noticed that lack of 2nd port ~_~



On September 20 2009 20:13 PH wrote:
For me, bio vs a P who knows how to use storm is pretty much automatic GG...

No matter how hard I macro, eventually your bases run out and you can't really play both the attrition game while holding onto a third...T_T

How do you do it?


Don't play a game of attrition? There are games I think I could've won if I were just a little more careful with my mnm forces. Sure, they're cheap, but you still want to do maximum damage every time you lose control groups. If it gets to the stage where you know you are losing a lot of mnm, but the game is at a standstill, maybe start expoing/adding tech like tanks/mines. If your enemy is making the mistake of not sunkening his expo, drop it (yes, my enemies at the D level do that. ~_~)
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
September 20 2009 12:11 GMT
#8
On September 20 2009 20:13 PH wrote:
For me, bio vs a P who knows how to use storm is pretty much automatic GG...

No matter how hard I macro, eventually your bases run out and you can't really play both the attrition game while holding onto a third...T_T

How do you do it?


With a lot of practice, frustration, and losses
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
September 20 2009 14:38 GMT
#9
I really like getting 2 fac quickly (2 rax opening, of course) and getting a lot of tanks up quickly, keeping my vessel count low. If my Z partner is worth his weight, I shouldn't have to worry about having the enemy Zerg throw hive tech at me so I don't need mass vessel, just 1-2.

Using mnm is a bitch vs P, but so long as I remember to spread my tanks well it should be okay.

Getting 1 armory for tank attack upgrades in a long game should help some too.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
September 20 2009 22:46 GMT
#10
On September 20 2009 23:38 Mortality wrote:
I really like getting 2 fac quickly (2 rax opening, of course) and getting a lot of tanks up quickly, keeping my vessel count low. If my Z partner is worth his weight, I shouldn't have to worry about having the enemy Zerg throw hive tech at me so I don't need mass vessel, just 1-2.

Using mnm is a bitch vs P, but so long as I remember to spread my tanks well it should be okay.

Getting 1 armory for tank attack upgrades in a long game should help some too.


I'd only be able to get away with this if my ally was wayyyy ahead in mutas
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
CoOl]1st[
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States243 Posts
September 21 2009 00:32 GMT
#11
usually when its TZ v PZ i just 2 rax in start than switch to earlyfactory than tech cause mm blows ass in late game T.T. and then just do bio drop while turtle and help your ally expand. i wish i had my cpu i have some reps of some great 2:2 games. byw NoobsOfWrath whats your iccup ID?
Wizard]1st[ fighting :O
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
September 21 2009 00:52 GMT
#12
On September 21 2009 09:32 CoOl]1st[ wrote:
usually when its TZ v PZ i just 2 rax in start than switch to earlyfactory than tech cause mm blows ass in late game T.T. and then just do bio drop while turtle and help your ally expand. i wish i had my cpu i have some reps of some great 2:2 games. byw NoobsOfWrath whats your iccup ID?


I don't want to say you're wrong or argue with you but this cannot work vs a remotely decent team unless your ally has 500 mutas when their zerg does not even have a lair yet.
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
CoOl]1st[
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States243 Posts
September 21 2009 02:14 GMT
#13
not true at all. i wont 3-2 vs LJT/Xiaozi with this (not bragging) when i get my cpu back id be happy to share replays. i guess i didnt describe it well enough.

whats your iccup ID?
Wizard]1st[ fighting :O
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
September 21 2009 02:27 GMT
#14
I'd be glad to see the replays, as it stands right now I don't understand how you can swap to tech without dying if your ally isn't ahead in mutas. My ID on iccup is Smashed, but I use a lot of names and I play P/T/Z on different accounts.
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
CoOl]1st[
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States243 Posts
September 21 2009 02:36 GMT
#15
its not like a straight swap its like you slowly stop making MM as you factory count increases, and you bunker for your ally so he can have gas advantage. u stop making MM around 4-5 fact, and then you just start MM dropping with what you have left, or you can just keep making mm for ground support whatever you please.
Wizard]1st[ fighting :O
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 178
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5070
Soma 184
Sharp 93
sorry 88
JulyZerg 45
NaDa 28
Shine 20
Sacsri 16
Mong 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm96
League of Legends
JimRising 464
C9.Mang0416
Counter-Strike
summit1g11992
shoxiejesuss467
Other Games
ceh9478
Happy224
crisheroes217
Mew2King69
Trikslyr27
Livibee17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick768
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 120
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH93
• LUISG 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling137
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 2m
WardiTV 2025
4h 2m
Cure vs Creator
Solar vs TBD
herO vs Spirit
Scarlett vs Gerald
Rogue vs Shameless
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Nice vs TBD
WardiTV 2025
1d 2h
ByuN vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
OSC
1d 5h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.