msn convo on schizophrenia, the ego, enlightenment

ME says:
what is it for you?
ME says:
what's it like that is so bad?

MY FRIEND says:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm
MY FRIEND says:
i have most

ME says:
ok but what is it
ME says:
that's bad
ME says:
that makes u suffer

MY FRIEND says:
i feel no emotion
MY FRIEND says:
only stress
MY FRIEND says:
cant really feel good
MY FRIEND says:
i feel dreamlike

ME says:
are you unable to relax?

MY FRIEND says:
have no desires
MY FRIEND says:
yes
MY FRIEND says:
have no feeling
MY FRIEND says:
at all
MY FRIEND says:
all i do is sleep

ME says:
so then you aren't unhappy ?

MY FRIEND says:
and sit at the computer
MY FRIEND says:
mm
MY FRIEND says:
id say i am unhappy
MY FRIEND says:
i can feel somewhat bad

ME says:
ok well...
ME says:
you aren't sad
ME says:
i guess
ME says:
?

MY FRIEND says:
frustrated
MY FRIEND says:
tired

ME says:
yeah I have been like this a lot too

MY FRIEND says:
desperate

ME says:
well, how i was before adderall
ME says:
except now im quite a bit better
ME says:
I can tell you what I have done to make it better

MY FRIEND says:
did you read the symptoms

ME says:
ok i will right now
ME says:
--The inability to experience joy or pleasure from activities (called anhedonia)
ME says:
has been the worst for me
ME says:
my whole life ive struggled with this

MY FRIEND says:
i wouldnt be surprised if you matched a lot of the symptoms

ME says:
u don't have hallucinations right?

MY FRIEND says:
no
MY FRIEND says:
had some delusions though

ME says:
have u spent time

MY FRIEND says:
if they werent delusions
MY FRIEND says:
then were living in a matrix
MY FRIEND says:
which is actually quite possible
MY FRIEND says:
and likely

ME says:
naw i don't think so
ME says:
i have reason to believe it isn't so
ME says:
you have spent time analyzing yourself and exploring your own consciousness?
ME says:
right?

MY FRIEND says:
yes

ME says:
I think you're just waking up, and that is hard
ME says:
you need to get in touch with the source of your experiences as much as possible
ME says:
you know, when you are really focused, and your ego disappears
ME says:
do you know what im talking about?

MY FRIEND says:
well
MY FRIEND says:
i dont have an ego
MY FRIEND says:
anymore

ME says:
well i dont believe that
ME says:
if you didn't have an ego you wouldn't have anything to complain about

MY FRIEND says:
i felt i lost it on lsd actually

ME says:
if you are unhappy you definitely have an ego

MY FRIEND says:
thats a buddhist concept
MY FRIEND says:
that doesnt seem true to me

ME says:
well it seems true to me and i wish it seemed true to you because it's where my improvement in life has come from

MY FRIEND says:
yah if you want to not feel anything
MY FRIEND says:
i dont call this an improvement

ME says:
tell me
ME says:
if this makes sense to you
ME says:

ME says:
it gets to the point when he starts talking about the blue jay
ME says:
don
ME says:
don't you wonder why you are unhappy?
ME says:
you think it's just a material thing that you can't change only with your mind ?

MY FRIEND says:
im listening to a song now
MY FRIEND says:
later

ME says:
i
ME says:
will become enlightened
ME says:
and show you that it's real and worth doing

MY FRIEND says:


ME says:
if you're unhappy it's because you want something you've had before
ME says:
i'd think
ME says:
if u don't want to talk about this stuff it's fine

MY FRIEND says:
i dont mind

ME says:
if you had food
ME says:
to live
ME says:
and shelter to keep you warm
ME says:
and nothing else
ME says:
and no responsibilities
ME says:
you would still have that unhappiness right?

MY FRIEND says:
yes

ME says:
do you wonder why that is?

MY FRIEND says:
i do

ME says:
in that situation, shouldn't you be able to be happy anyways?
ME says:
in any given moment you aren't sad right? I think I understand because I am so similar to you.
ME says:
I think it's because you want to be happier
ME says:
that you are unhappy
ME says:
it's a wanting things to be different
ME says:
that causes the negative aspects of how you feel
ME says:
it is certainly impossible to feel bad
ME says:
if you give no attention to how you feel

MY FRIEND says:
hmm
MY FRIEND says:
thats interesting
MY FRIEND says:
ive smoked a bit
MY FRIEND says:
and when you said
MY FRIEND says:
about wanting things to be different
MY FRIEND says:
i kinda stopped doin git
MY FRIEND says:
and felt better
MY FRIEND says:
immediately
MY FRIEND says:
it wont disappear that easily but
MY FRIEND says:
seems like youre right

ME says:
Something else I would recommend
ME says:
is to try very hard to be thankful for things, and appreciate
ME says:
each and every little thing
ME says:
be happy about each and every thing
ME says:
if you are in a good mood, it is much easier to see
ME says:
that everything is great, every little thing is a gift
ME says:
but we can still condition ourselves to see things that way, even if life is hard for us
ME says:
just spend time, look at a tree, see how beautiful it is and what a gift that is
ME says:
or feel your body, that you can feel sensation. what a gift that is
ME says:
if you get good enough at it, everything is a gift. even pain
ME says:
to simply be able to feel anything
ME says:
is a blessing
ME says:
and if you condition yourself to think this way
ME says:
it is eventually true
ME says:
and if you are looking at everything positively
ME says:
it really doesn't matter what other people think of things, for you, life is beautiful and great
ME says:
but that takes time and effort
ME says:
and requires you to stop and put effort into it
ME says:
when you are feeling down

MY FRIEND says:
interesting

ME says:
Even if you have uncurable schizophrenia and eventually you were a total lunatic, I think you can still change your views to the point where life is great and something you appreciate

MY FRIEND says:
hmm
MY FRIEND says:
i like what you wrote now

ME says:
the point with buddhism is to not "see" things any way. they just are as they are. but that is much harder than it sounds
ME says:
mentally we tell stories about everything that is happening
ME says:
rather than just experiencing the sensation of pain, for example
ME says:
we feel it as something that hurts
ME says:
rather than just what it is
ME says:
pain doesn't hurt until we tell ourselves it hurts
ME says:
do you understand what i am saying? and do you agree with it ?

MY FRIEND says:
im not sure
MY FRIEND says:
i think most healthy people dont have the ability to turn off pain
MY FRIEND says:
you have to dissociate to do that

ME says:
not turn it off
ME says:
pain, the sensation, does not mean "it hurts". it's just a feeling of what is happening
ME says:
the "it hurts" part is when we expand upon the sensation of pain
ME says:
does that make more sense?

MY FRIEND says:
yes
MY FRIEND says:
ive thought this before

ME says:
the "expand upon the sensation of pain". that part, I would say, is the doing of the ego
ME says:
and it works for everything, not just pain
ME says:
pleasure too
ME says:
taste, sight, sounds
ME says:
etc
ME says:
so in buddhism the goal is to eliminate the ego so you are experiencing everything just how it is
ME says:
instead of these expanded versions that our ego creates
ME says:
because when you are experiencing everything just how it is, that is ultimately peaceful and there can be nothing wrong with it
ME says:
part of me hopes that you really investigate what I am talking about because I know you are capable of getting there, like I am
ME says:
your eyes are open, and most people's are not
ME says:
thats why things are so hard for you I think

MY FRIEND says:
im thinking about it

ME says:
it's why i got
ME says:
basically addicted to weed
ME says:
well, why i liked weed so much
ME says:
and adderall I guess
ME says:
they help me get to the place where you are experiencing things just how they are
ME says:
but they also (especially weed) can have negative effects as well
ME says:
or just like, side effects
ME says:
like change how you feel
ME says:
I think the reason they made it easier to get to the place where you experience things for how they really are
ME says:
is because they made me feel better, feel happier
ME says:
and when you are happier it is easier to get to that place
ME says:
but if you do a lot of research on say, ramana maharshi
ME says:
it is pretty interesting
ME says:
ramana maharshi wasn't even a buddhist
ME says:
he wasn't anything
ME says:
the only method to attain enlightenment that he used was
ME says:
to sit and look for the source from which all experiences arise
ME says:
the place that the ego, or "I" thought comes from
ME says:
and eventually he found it and that is where he stayed
ME says:
do you know the quote
ME says:
"It's like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't look at the finger, or you'll miss out on all the heavenly glory."
ME says:
?
ME says:
Because that quote perfectly explains what the buddhist view of the ego is, the role it plays in our lives
ME says:
The moon = the source of our experiences. The finger = our egos.
ME says:
And most people look at the finger rather than looking at the moon