• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:38
CEST 14:38
KST 21:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2682 users

Don't Tell Me Your Rank

Blogs > cgrinker
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
August 31 2009 15:37 GMT
#1
I'm only going to come out and say it, There are only two important ranks on ICC: first and last. No other rank describes your skill of SC effectively. Hackers and abusers aside, here are some things to take into consideration before you try and hop pu the ladder half way.

First and Formost: FakeSteave fucking owns. You know it, I know it. What's his rank on ICC? D-ish. Does that mean that me and FS are on the same level? Absoutely not. FS would destroy on me at SC, be it talking, playing, commentating, knowing battle.net commands, etc.

Second: Cheese. You could only cheese and probably get so dialed in to bunker rushing that you could play at a much higher ranking then if you had to learn how to play builds. When I was working on the bunker rush article for Liquipedia I just did it like 30 times versus the computer (no interwebz) and my APM broke 200 without spamming. Not to say that the computer compares to people but you get the idea.

Third: Who'd you play? Because of the way these things work by an odd set of coincidences you could rocket your way to the top pretty quick if you just ran into noobs.

I'm trailing off here, I'm just angry that we lost people in the community for a number and a letter that don't mean anything. ITS NOT WoW! THE SCORE DOESN"T REFLECT YORU TIME INVESTMENT.

/End rant

**
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
August 31 2009 15:39 GMT
#2
quit and win imo
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
August 31 2009 15:41 GMT
#3
btw your preconditions and conclusion dont logically connect at all
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
August 31 2009 15:44 GMT
#4
You can't cheese more than a rank above your own rank. Maybe for a game or two, but consistently? No way

Lim Yo Hwan forever!
DanceCommander
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1808 Posts
August 31 2009 15:46 GMT
#5
well said good sir. You're rank on iccup is by no means the only indicator of you're knowledge of this amazing game.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
August 31 2009 15:48 GMT
#6
On September 01 2009 00:41 thedeadhaji wrote:
btw your preconditions and conclusion dont logically connect at all


Yeah I have to go to work and I was like, "Bail out! And then I didn't want to throw it away so I posted it.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
August 31 2009 15:49 GMT
#7
And I didn't close that quotation.
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4336 Posts
August 31 2009 15:53 GMT
#8
People from less cool sites would agree with you.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
August 31 2009 16:05 GMT
#9
FakeSteave.
...
Steave.
Steav.
Stea.
Ste.
St.
S.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Kong John
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark1020 Posts
August 31 2009 16:08 GMT
#10
i think posting you rank shows that you atleast have a clue about what your talking about, Even though people prolly are gonna think your a boasting dick. Posting your ICCup rank is kinda shooting yourself in the foot, it can still be usefull though.
This is real life, where nerds must battle!
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
August 31 2009 16:11 GMT
#11
http://www.iccup.com/matchlist/277406/1x1.html
you CAN cheese consistently... this guy has 120 apm, B-, avg. game length is little over 9 mins...
Course, just mad props to warmaster, its a strategy game and his is superior.
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
August 31 2009 16:15 GMT
#12
you go girl
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 31 2009 16:16 GMT
#13
Yeah, I've played FakeSteve before, and I was surprised at how good he actually was (for some reason, I expected him to be super chobo lol). As you said in the OP, stats aren't a good comparative measure of the relative skills of two people, but, in the long run (if you keep on playing), they're a pretty good indicator of how good you really are. If you've laddered long enough to reach the point where you lose more often than you win (assuming you're playing straight up because you want to see how far your actually skills can take you), then you can get a decent estimate of your skill level.
SiegeTanksandBlueGoo
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
China685 Posts
August 31 2009 16:21 GMT
#14
I'm barely C (got it last day after about 80 games), and I beat Warmaster. You might say he has a good game plan, but he's just good at cheesing in games one right after another. He's not actually "B-" rank at all, more like a C who cheesed his way to barely B-.
What does the scouter say about his macro level? It's Over 9000 minerals!
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1382 Posts
August 31 2009 16:24 GMT
#15
i dont get this
mada mada dane
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
August 31 2009 16:24 GMT
#16
I've added my ICC rank to my ID card, don't you say bullshit to me.
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
August 31 2009 16:28 GMT
#17
Following your reasoning, first and last don't mean anything as well. Especially not last. The only thing last place means is that out of all the bad players, you are willing to play the most. And it's very possible that the guy in first got that rank instead of someone else, say, the guy in second, because of a strange set of coincidences. Or he just plays more ICCUP games than the others around his skill level

It's pretty well known that there are many flaws with judging someone by their rank. But to say that rank means absolutely nothing isn't true. No matter what line of reasoning you give me, a legit B- with a winning record is better than a D player with 30% wins and 200 games played
Trucy Wright is hot
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24701 Posts
August 31 2009 16:32 GMT
#18
There's really no point in arguing with the OP since it's clear that its just his rant with the purpose of telling us that rank is so unimportant it's not worth getting worked up over... and especially getting banned over.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Triple7
Profile Joined April 2009
United States656 Posts
August 31 2009 16:34 GMT
#19
Ah, it's a cleverly disguised "You fools! Why did you hack?!" rant.
지지이이이이이이이이이이이
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 31 2009 16:35 GMT
#20
On September 01 2009 01:21 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote:
I'm barely C (got it last day after about 80 games), and I beat Warmaster. You might say he has a good game plan, but he's just good at cheesing in games one right after another. He's not actually "B-" rank at all, more like a C who cheesed his way to barely B-.

Random thought:

I think part of the reason cheese seems to work so well at lower levels is that the cheeser has a definite gameplan (given, it's much easier to hammer out a gameplan as the game is shorter and easier to repeat since there is less variation to account for), while the cheese-ee likely does not (even if he's not unfamiliar with responding to the cheese, it's still almost certain that he doesn't know exactly what to do and when to do it unlike the cheeser). Comparing cheese to lower level standard play, the players seem to have a vague idea of what they're doing and why, and maybe they know how to react in certain situations, but what they're lacking is knowing specifics - having a plan. For example, a cheesing 2hatch hydra player may know 9pool speed->deny scouting->12 drones on minerals, 3 on gas->keep pumping hydras once you reach your drone count. He has a plan he can execute any time. But a 5hatch hydra player may only know, "oh, I'm going to drone up until roughly 28/6, take my third gas and go lurks/mutas, then see if I can take more expos and drone up some more, maybe transition back into lurkerling while someone keeping my money down even though it's a totally different unit combination that requires different drone counts."

tl;dr version: Get a game plan, it helps a ton (especially as a Zerg player). And you'll be a lot more confident in your game.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Map Test Tournament
11:00
$450 3v3 Open Cup
WardiTV333
IndyStarCraft 171
LiquipediaDiscussion
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 2: Playoffs Day 5
Cure vs TriGGeRLIVE!
Tasteless1141
Crank 968
Rex139
CranKy Ducklings115
3DClanTV 85
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1141
Crank 968
Lowko295
IndyStarCraft 171
Rex 139
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 45439
Calm 8122
Horang2 4727
Bisu 1413
Hyuk 883
Stork 656
Snow 557
ZerO 358
actioN 312
EffOrt 286
[ Show more ]
Pusan 263
hero 259
Soma 241
Mini 209
Last 178
Light 155
Soulkey 147
Hyun 118
Liquid`Ret 76
ggaemo 71
Rush 63
Mind 60
ToSsGirL 41
JYJ38
HiyA 32
Sharp 30
Free 25
sas.Sziky 22
sorry 22
scan(afreeca) 20
Sexy 20
Icarus 11
SilentControl 11
Terrorterran 10
IntoTheRainbow 4
Dota 2
singsing3279
qojqva1376
Gorgc720
Dendi667
XcaliburYe147
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1859
x6flipin628
hiko175
zeus149
markeloff118
edward6
Other Games
B2W.Neo859
DeMusliM432
Hui .175
Fuzer 153
XaKoH 122
Pyrionflax121
ArmadaUGS41
NeuroSwarm38
QueenE25
Trikslyr12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1125
CasterMuse 20
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2869
• Jankos1490
Other Games
• WagamamaTV202
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
22m
RSL Revival
21h 22m
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
1d 14h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 19h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.