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Norway28664 Posts
On May 16 2020 01:52 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2020 22:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:Oh simply because those conversation (or statements) from their extremely controversial - and vague - natures, get much more traction than any concrete political discussions. I've been many times guilty of getting extremely annoyed at one or another poster and feeding a discussion I don't think belongs there. I take responsibility for part of the problem. And again my solution is simply to have two threads, not to get rid of anyone. The problem is not that we are discussing utopias or radical ideas, it's that we are discussing them in a place that is meant to discuss actual politics. In a way, maybe having a US politics megablog as GH created once, more oriented to very general ideological discussions would solve most of the tensions. On May 15 2020 21:31 Acrofales wrote:
Well, both Neb and GH are banned, so go forth and discuss US politics with no fear of socialist utopias derailing the discussion! They are both temp banned, and it's not them that are the problem, more the vagueness of the thread's topic. Neb is now thread banned as well. Thought I should mention this.
Why?
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On May 16 2020 02:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2020 01:52 BigFan wrote:On May 15 2020 22:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:Oh simply because those conversation (or statements) from their extremely controversial - and vague - natures, get much more traction than any concrete political discussions. I've been many times guilty of getting extremely annoyed at one or another poster and feeding a discussion I don't think belongs there. I take responsibility for part of the problem. And again my solution is simply to have two threads, not to get rid of anyone. The problem is not that we are discussing utopias or radical ideas, it's that we are discussing them in a place that is meant to discuss actual politics. In a way, maybe having a US politics megablog as GH created once, more oriented to very general ideological discussions would solve most of the tensions. On May 15 2020 21:31 Acrofales wrote:
Well, both Neb and GH are banned, so go forth and discuss US politics with no fear of socialist utopias derailing the discussion! They are both temp banned, and it's not them that are the problem, more the vagueness of the thread's topic. Neb is now thread banned as well. Thought I should mention this. Why? Because he asked for it before getting temped.
https://tl.net/forum/tl-community/95875-the-automated-ban-list?page=3081#61611
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On May 15 2020 21:31 Acrofales wrote:
Well, both Neb and GH are banned, so go forth and discuss US politics with no fear of socialist utopias derailing the discussion!
yea i’m sure there will be great use made of the opportunity some have loudly been asking for.
*crickets* :D. it does have some activity now after all, i’m glad to have been jumping the gun.
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Norway28664 Posts
On May 16 2020 02:38 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2020 02:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 16 2020 01:52 BigFan wrote:On May 15 2020 22:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:Oh simply because those conversation (or statements) from their extremely controversial - and vague - natures, get much more traction than any concrete political discussions. I've been many times guilty of getting extremely annoyed at one or another poster and feeding a discussion I don't think belongs there. I take responsibility for part of the problem. And again my solution is simply to have two threads, not to get rid of anyone. The problem is not that we are discussing utopias or radical ideas, it's that we are discussing them in a place that is meant to discuss actual politics. In a way, maybe having a US politics megablog as GH created once, more oriented to very general ideological discussions would solve most of the tensions. On May 15 2020 21:31 Acrofales wrote:
Well, both Neb and GH are banned, so go forth and discuss US politics with no fear of socialist utopias derailing the discussion! They are both temp banned, and it's not them that are the problem, more the vagueness of the thread's topic. Neb is now thread banned as well. Thought I should mention this. Why? Because he asked for it before getting temped. https://tl.net/forum/tl-community/95875-the-automated-ban-list?page=3081#61611
Oh! Reasonable, then. Will miss him though!
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Dear moderation team,
https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=2335#46691
On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case.
This seems extremely messed up for a moderator to say. He's openly saying he hopes rioters are shot.
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On May 29 2020 23:16 Mohdoo wrote:Dear moderation team, https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=2335#46691Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. This seems extremely messed up for a moderator to say. He's openly saying he hopes rioters are shot.
I think it'd be fine for him to say this if he wasn't also the dude who threatened to ban us if we said we were supportive of violent actions in other contexts.
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On May 29 2020 23:27 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 23:16 Mohdoo wrote:Dear moderation team, https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=2335#46691On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. This seems extremely messed up for a moderator to say. He's openly saying he hopes rioters are shot. I think it'd be fine for him to say this if he wasn't also the dude who threatened to ban us if we said we were supportive of violent actions in other contexts.
I don't think it is ever fine to call for the national guard to shoot looters
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He then back pedals into “I hope no violence comes of it” but agrees to the racist rhetoric of shooting people. He’s playing both sides of the field to try and seem equal, It’s ridiculous.
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United States42640 Posts
That’s a pretty dumb thing for him to say but not out of character for him. I’m also a little curious about black communities being branded as the worst of society (as opposed to people like the Sackler family who are rich, white, “law-abiding”, and flooded cities with OxyContin). If I had a higher opinion of him I’d think it was a dog whistle but I don’t have that so it’s probably just the result of too much Fox News and not enough critical thinking.
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Talk about taking the worst possible interpretation of a post, and trying to get action against him. Never change, USPol.
Ban Mohdoo and Darkplasmaball for supporting riots and arson. Suddenly they’ll find the nuance in posts coming out in favor of some outcome or approach.
His followup
On May 29 2020 22:51 Xxio wrote:Catching up on news. 170 buildings damaged or looted. Incredible what media narrative can create. Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. Wasn't his response to threaten to shoot people? I mean, that's certainly a strong response, but not one of a leader. "Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses." You mean the cop who killed an innocent man? I don't think Trump spoke out against him or law enforcement or racism, in general. For what it's worth I sincerely hope there will be no violence and the rioting and looting stops.
I think Trump’s tweet was obviously over the top and stupid, so I won’t defend it, but even more idiotic is to say supporting his political approach is banned in a politics thread.
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On May 29 2020 23:40 KwarK wrote:
That’s a pretty dumb thing for him to say but not out of character for him. I’m also a little curious about black communities being branded as the worst of society (as opposed to people like the Sackler family who are rich, white, “law-abiding”, and flooded cities with OxyContin). If I had a higher opinion of him I’d think it was a dog whistle but I don’t have that so it’s probably just the result of too much Fox News and not enough critical thinking.
I agree with your assessment and think it is below TL's standards to have Xxio as a moderator. For a forum that puts as much effort as TL does into maintaining what has taken years to build, it feels extremely out of character.
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On May 29 2020 23:41 Danglars wrote:Talk about taking the worst possible interpretation of a post, and trying to get action against him. Never change, USPol. Ban Mohdoo and Darkplasmaball for supporting riots and arson. Suddenly they’ll find the nuance in posts coming out in favor of some outcome or approach. His followup Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 22:51 Xxio wrote:Catching up on news. 170 buildings damaged or looted. Incredible what media narrative can create. On May 29 2020 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. Wasn't his response to threaten to shoot people? I mean, that's certainly a strong response, but not one of a leader. "Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses." You mean the cop who killed an innocent man? I don't think Trump spoke out against him or law enforcement or racism, in general. For what it's worth I sincerely hope there will be no violence and the rioting and looting stops. I think Trump’s tweet was obviously over the top and stupid, so I won’t defend it, but even more idiotic is to say supporting his political approach is banned in a politics thread.
i think even the most generous interpretation of the post, from the moderator who did threaten bans for supporting violence, is such that he supports trumps promise of violence. I’d appreciate some insight into what other strong response from Trump he is lauding if not the promise to shoot people. from xxio, of course, i don’t mean to have you own that.
Is there an even more generous interpretation? i’m excited to see you having been posting in the main thread again too.
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Yes Trumps tweet is very basic. "I will send in the army to shoot looters".
A support of that tweet is a support of the promise of violence. No ifs or buts about it.
People can support Trump, hard tho he may make it, without directly referencing a tweet in which he promises physical violence.
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United States42640 Posts
On May 29 2020 23:41 Danglars wrote:Talk about taking the worst possible interpretation of a post, and trying to get action against him. Never change, USPol. Ban Mohdoo and Darkplasmaball for supporting riots and arson. Suddenly they’ll find the nuance in posts coming out in favor of some outcome or approach. His followup Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 22:51 Xxio wrote:Catching up on news. 170 buildings damaged or looted. Incredible what media narrative can create. On May 29 2020 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. Wasn't his response to threaten to shoot people? I mean, that's certainly a strong response, but not one of a leader. "Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses." You mean the cop who killed an innocent man? I don't think Trump spoke out against him or law enforcement or racism, in general. For what it's worth I sincerely hope there will be no violence and the rioting and looting stops. I think Trump’s tweet was obviously over the top and stupid, so I won’t defend it, but even more idiotic is to say supporting his political approach is banned in a politics thread.
It’s a difficult line to draw. On teamliquid there is a basic standard of decency and decorum which all posters are expected to meet. Trump obviously would not meet that standard. It’s therefore difficult to have a political discussion topic when the subject under discussion is so far beyond the pale.
We welcome a conservative critique of why using the army to shoot rioting protesters responding to police brutality is not in line with the spirit of individualism, not compatible with the rights enshrined in the constitution, certainly isn’t small government, and is essentially an emulation of the sins of the British in the run up to the constitution.
We also welcome a liberal critique.
But it’s hard to know what to do with a fascist call for using overwhelming military power to force compliance at gunpoint from protesting citizens. That viewpoint shouldn’t really be happening and when it’s the President doing it we find ourselves in a strange place. My hope is that the political divide hasn’t become “team Trump” vs “everyone else” and that when Trump crosses a line beyond civil discourse we can still engage in political debate without one side needing to advocate for Trump’s beliefs. Conservatism is not intellectually bankrupt and can offer a viable alternative separate from Trumpism.
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I'm not sure why it's supposed to be an unfair interpretation anyway. Support for state violence against people who contest the societal order is a mainstream conservative position.
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On May 29 2020 23:41 Danglars wrote:Talk about taking the worst possible interpretation of a post, and trying to get action against him. Never change, USPol. Ban Mohdoo and Darkplasmaball for supporting riots and arson. Suddenly they’ll find the nuance in posts coming out in favor of some outcome or approach. His followup Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 22:51 Xxio wrote:Catching up on news. 170 buildings damaged or looted. Incredible what media narrative can create. On May 29 2020 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. Wasn't his response to threaten to shoot people? I mean, that's certainly a strong response, but not one of a leader. "Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses." You mean the cop who killed an innocent man? I don't think Trump spoke out against him or law enforcement or racism, in general. For what it's worth I sincerely hope there will be no violence and the rioting and looting stops. I think Trump’s tweet was obviously over the top and stupid, so I won’t defend it, but even more idiotic is to say supporting his political approach is banned in a politics thread.
The “strong response” of Trump’s that he likes is threatening to shoot looters. He explicitly acknowledges that Trump might just be *saying* that, rather than actually intending to shoot looters, but he hopes that he actually means it and intends to shoot looters. He follows up that he sincerely hopes the looting and rioting stops without violence, but at no point backs down on wanting looters to be shot.
I don’t see the room for interpretation. Xxio thinks looters should be shot. If you think that’s morally equivalent to supporting riots or arson, we can argue that in the other thread if you want.
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But it’s hard to know what to do with a fascist call for using overwhelming military power to force compliance at gunpoint from protesting citizens
For who?
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United States42640 Posts
On May 30 2020 00:02 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +But it’s hard to know what to do with a fascist call for using overwhelming military power to force compliance at gunpoint from protesting citizens For who?
As forum moderators. It’s hard to know as moderators what to do when the figurehead of one side of the most popular topic in the general forum starts saying that shit. Do we shut the topic down? Leave it open but tell people Trumpism won’t be tolerated in the politics thread? Or just allow open calls for shooting citizens?
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On May 30 2020 00:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 00:02 GreenHorizons wrote:But it’s hard to know what to do with a fascist call for using overwhelming military power to force compliance at gunpoint from protesting citizens For who? As forum moderators. It’s hard to know as moderators what to do when the figurehead of one side of the most popular topic in the general forum starts saying that shit. Do we shut the topic down? Leave it open but tell people Trumpism won’t be tolerated in the politics thread? Or just allow open calls for shooting citizens?
You could spoiler and tag it like twitter I guess?
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On May 29 2020 23:16 Mohdoo wrote:Dear moderation team, https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=2335#46691Show nested quote +On May 29 2020 22:42 Xxio wrote:
Glad to see a strong response from Trump. It's probably hot air, but hopefully not. Bad days when the worst of society is allowed to freely act on their impulses. Time to stop paying taxes and start 3D printing guns if that's the case. This seems extremely messed up for a moderator to say. He's openly saying he hopes rioters are shot.
Uhh is he saying you should print yourself a gun to use in case a rioter attempts to rob you?
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EPT
