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On October 04 2010 21:43 DiracMonopole wrote: I dont get the 200/200 supply trick.
Lets say that I am the phantom, and I am at 228/230 supply. You ask my what my supply is and I say 198, and then build 2 scvs to prove it. People will notice you are at 228 supply however. Also if they ask you to build a supply depo what are you going to do. However I refuse to do this trick and I tell people not to obey other people as it ruins the game.
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On October 05 2010 02:02 TheFinalWord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 21:43 DiracMonopole wrote: I dont get the 200/200 supply trick.
Lets say that I am the phantom, and I am at 228/230 supply. You ask my what my supply is and I say 198, and then build 2 scvs to prove it. People will notice you are at 228 supply however. Also if they ask you to build a supply depo what are you going to do. However I refuse to do this trick and I tell people not to obey other people as it ruins the game. If you are clever you can avoid being asked this question altogether. I've won as phantom by purposely losing almost all of my base, and then rebuilding extremely slowly, and then just shooting ahead with an army built to counter the armies of others. Also, Z can hide units in nydus and such, and you could always play on blind or colorblind.
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On October 04 2010 20:02 Shiladie wrote: The 200/200 supply trick needs to be removed, any game where people know it, the phantom loses no matter what, the only good games I've had are where that trick isn't used. I never bring up the trick in games even when i'm not phant, just because I don't want it spreading around and ruining the map...
For zerg phantoms, I find hydra muta is best, hide a massive hydra force in nydus network and play with just your mutas until you need the hydras for defence.
Agreed.
And it needs to be set on blind by default or something. The major flaw in these times of games is that nobody will start the aggression because they are afraid that people will think they are the phantom.
Most games i played during the beta were just everyone macro'ing up to 200/200 3-3 battlecruiser/VR/Muta/Carrier and then saying "well, i guess we should just start killing each other off one by one." So now I always start being aggressive early and killing off my neighbor but I instantly get labeled as the phantom and killed. Then when they see I was a slayer I get called out for being an idiot and attacking "innocent" people.
I don't understand how to play this game with the stupid people that make up the majority of Bnet. : /
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On October 05 2010 02:02 TheFinalWord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 21:43 DiracMonopole wrote: I dont get the 200/200 supply trick.
Lets say that I am the phantom, and I am at 228/230 supply. You ask my what my supply is and I say 198, and then build 2 scvs to prove it. People will notice you are at 228 supply however. Also if they ask you to build a supply depo what are you going to do. However I refuse to do this trick and I tell people not to obey other people as it ruins the game.
Are you really going to notice that I have 30 extra supply? Thats maybe 10 ghosts and 5 vikings, all mixed into my giant ball. And if someone asks me to build a supply depot, ill go build one. Its not like you cant build more than 200 supply, you just dont get any benefit from it.
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On October 05 2010 05:52 DiracMonopole wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 02:02 TheFinalWord wrote:On October 04 2010 21:43 DiracMonopole wrote: I dont get the 200/200 supply trick.
Lets say that I am the phantom, and I am at 228/230 supply. You ask my what my supply is and I say 198, and then build 2 scvs to prove it. People will notice you are at 228 supply however. Also if they ask you to build a supply depo what are you going to do. However I refuse to do this trick and I tell people not to obey other people as it ruins the game. Are you really going to notice that I have 30 extra supply? Thats maybe 10 ghosts and 5 vikings, all mixed into my giant ball. And if someone asks me to build a supply depot, ill go build one. Its not like you cant build more than 200 supply, you just dont get any benefit from it. I don't think you understand how the method works. The phantom cannot supply block himself unless he is at like 240/240 or 260/260 assuming you make them build a supply depo. If they are at 200/200 and they are supply blocked, if you tell them to build a depo they will be become un supply blocked and you know they are the phantom. It's really actually quite easy to notice an extra 20 or 30 supply over what they should have, especially if you ask them how many units they have. Since they need to hide at least 40 supply to pass the test. I don't see that working out. Smart players will check nydus worms. I still think this method is broken and I don't use it anymore.
On October 05 2010 04:16 Backpack wrote: Most games i played during the beta were just everyone macro'ing up to 200/200 3-3 battlecruiser/VR/Muta/Carrier and then saying "well, i guess we should just start killing each other off one by one." So now I always start being aggressive early and killing off my neighbor but I instantly get labeled as the phantom and killed. Then when they see I was a slayer I get called out for being an idiot and attacking "innocent" people.
I think you are missing the point if you just attack random people. You pretty much have to enjoy the macro aspect to play this map.
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On October 05 2010 06:31 TheFinalWord wrote:
I think you are missing the point if you just attack random people. You pretty much have to enjoy the macro aspect to play this map.
What is the point then?
If you don't attack random people, nobody else will either and everyone just sits there the whole game.
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Could you not build lots of workers to max out and then have a smaller army to compensate? Seems like people wouldn't really check your worker count.
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On October 07 2010 06:58 ZeaL. wrote: Could you not build lots of workers to max out and then have a smaller army to compensate? Seems like people wouldn't really check your worker count.
Then you lose in any fight, unless they are really bad.
Remember that people who play this game aren't usually good at all. Bronze is very common.
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On October 07 2010 07:15 vica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 06:58 ZeaL. wrote: Could you not build lots of workers to max out and then have a smaller army to compensate? Seems like people wouldn't really check your worker count. Then you lose in any fight, unless they are really bad. Remember that people who play this game aren't usually good at all. Bronze is very common.
Well, just for deception's sake. i would say once you want to reveal yourself you can suicide your probes for more army though you would have to build up (as toss its okay tho).
I just played a game on the new map and somehow they were able to tell my supply count was 202. Were people hacking or something?
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On October 05 2010 04:16 Backpack wrote:
Agreed.
And it needs to be set on blind by default or something. The major flaw in these times of games is
There is no major flaw with the game, only the people who play it. As you have demonstrated beyond all doubt....
On October 05 2010 04:16 Backpack wrote:
So now I always start being aggressive early and killing off my neighbor but I instantly get labeled as the phantom and killed. Then when they see I was a slayer I get called out for being an idiot and attacking "innocent" people.
Well unless you killed a phantom then they were innocent (not "innocent") and therefore you are an idiot for doing the phantoms job for him. Have you ever read the front screen where it says Slayers are allied with Paladins? If you feel you are not an idiot then please explain from your anecdote how you feel you were a genius for attacking someone without any proof they were the phantom.
On October 05 2010 04:16 Backpack wrote:
I don't understand how to play this game with the stupid people that make up the majority of Bnet. : /
You should have stopped at "I don't understand how to play this game". You have demonstrated your stupidity then you call everyone else stupid. I will assume the irony is lost on you.
Phantom is a game of Observation, Communication and Co-ordination.
With observation you can spot the Phantoms and Paladins (usually in the first few minutes, my record with a zerg player is the first few seconds).
With communication you can convey your observations with the other players.
With co-ordination you can act together for the purpose of killing the phantoms.
For people who don't understand this, like Backpack, Phantom is just FFA for dummies.
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On October 07 2010 08:42 SixtusTheFifth wrote:
Phantom is a game of Observation, Communication and Co-ordination.
With observation you can spot the Phantoms and Paladins (usually in the first few minutes, my record with a zerg player is the first few seconds).
With communication you can convey your observations with the other players.
With co-ordination you can act together for the purpose of killing the phantoms.
For people who don't understand this, like Backpack, Phantom is just FFA for dummies.
In an attempt to salvage a mature conversation from this.
Here is an example game.
You Observe 4 people building faster than usual. You Communicate with others who confirm that yes, those 4 are in fact building faster than usual. All 4 people naturally claim to be paladins.
What now?
Everyone else Co-ordinates their attacks and just picks off the 4 people at random hoping that they don't get the paladins? (Not only is it a stupid idea but when you say "lets all co-ordinate an attack on that guy massing VRs." They respond by saying "BACKPACK IS PHANTOM HE WANTS TO KILL PEPOPLE")
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On October 07 2010 08:51 Backpack wrote:
Here is an example game.
You Observe 4 people building faster than usual. You Communicate with others who confirm that yes, those 4 are in fact building faster than usual. All 4 people naturally claim to be paladins.
What now?
Everyone else Co-ordinates their attacks and just picks off the 4 people at random hoping that they don't get the paladins? (Not only is it a stupid idea but when you say "lets all co-ordinate an attack on that guy massing VRs." They respond by saying "BACKPACK IS PHANTOM HE WANTS TO KILL PEPOPLE")
I've been in this situation and this is where gamemanship comes in. It's not about what you know, it's about whether you are believed, so it's not random.
In your example the Phantoms have been narrowed down to 2 out of 4:
A says "B is getting Voids!" B says "Hey, wait a minute, A is trying to get you all to attack me" C says "No I agree with A, B has been acting funny all game." A says "What do you think D?" C says "A & D have teamed up! They're the phantoms!"
and so forth.
So I disagree that it is random. 4 people have been isolated - so right there a lot of the randomness that usually plagues this game has been avoided. The rest comes down to convincing everyone else to do your bidding, and 'convince' and 'random' are different words with different meanings.
Now I'll give you some examples of how players have behaved and you (and anyone else) guess if they were Slayers, Paladins or Phantoms.
Player A instantly turned off vision and attempted to Planetary Fortress rush me (a slayer). I kept an SCV under the CC so it couldn't land and after a brief dance Player A rage quit.
Player B teched too fast for a slayer. When asked what he was he turned off vision and refused to answer questions. After a valient defense he was crushed by his 4 closest neighbours.
Players C & D in the same game attacked their closest neighbours as soon as they could. They made some initial gains during the chaos that followed but eventually were overwhelmed.
Answer: + Show Spoiler +If you guessed A) Paladin B) Paladin C & D) Paladin & Slayer You were right! And THOSE are examples of random attacks from people who refuse to learn and enjoy the finer aspects of this custom game. Now, you already know Player A rage quit, guess how Players B, C & D behaved after being eliminated? Answer + Show Spoiler +If you guessed: "They spent the next 5 minutes berating everyone for being stupid"
You were right!!
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My point is that if NOBODY does stupid shit. Then it's just a macro to 200/200 game.
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My point is that if NOBODY does stupid shit.
So we agree on one thing: Your behaviour, as you described it, is stupid.
That didn't take as long as I expected!
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On October 07 2010 11:33 SixtusTheFifth wrote:So we agree on one thing: Your behaviour, as you described it, is stupid. That didn't take as long as I expected! He's not stupid dude, cut the attitude.
@ Backpack. Yes it can turn into a boring macro game, but alot of times you can either start or join arguments and that is where the real fun for me is. You can make jokes like accusing randoms of phantom without the intention of attacking them to get the ball rolling. It is a game of deception and untangleing deception after all, if you don't like games of deception I don't think its the game for you. When skilled phantoms are in the game it gets epic when you don't know who to trust and accusations are flying everywhere.
edit: Basically what I'm trying to say is yes it can be boring. But with argumentative people or with friends it is a ton of fun. Attacking randoms is not fun for me at least, you might as well play ffa.
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I find you pretty much have to play with friends. People in random games join up and start killing people regardless of whether they are phantom/slayer/paladin.
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play like husky, and just attack the ppls you don't like =]
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I am a huge fan of this game.
Here is my strategy:
I attempt to convince everybody to worker rush clockwise. At this point, slayers have a p=(8-n)/8 chance of winning where n is the number of phantoms.
Many phantoms, however, will not go along with this, and in their resistance, reveal themselves as phantoms. At this point, it is a trivial task to convince everybody to turn and attack the phantom before the phantom can get any units up.
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people complaining about the blocking a worker trick people do, just dont go over 200 supply as Phant. I never do until its time to win.
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On October 09 2010 17:25 SC2Phoenix wrote: people complaining about the blocking a worker trick people do, just dont go over 200 supply as Phant. I never do until its time to win. Please read page 4 post 5.
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