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During Blizzcon Rob pardo said wc4 will be released in same episodic manner as starcraft2. Of course this is not an official statement.
We know that warcraft4 is on the table as a future project, but there is no indication that a warcraft4 project has actually been given any greenlight. True. But it surely is coming sooner or later it's a no brainer for me But i guess not before sc2 expansions are finished. At the moment they are probably doing other things.
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On September 08 2010 01:47 Amnesia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 00:23 Murderotica wrote: To: Every poster who makes the statement that "newer is better" and therefore BW scene as a whole should just step down and take shitty time slots and less money so that SC2 can thrive.
First of all let me tell you that you are a selfish asshole who can't see past his own computer screen. You got SC2 and you think "omg bst gaem evr" so naturally you want the game you enjoy at the moment to be the most successful. Well guess what, your opinion of this game is shared by some people, but many many others think that SC2 is not better than BW (at least not yet) and therefore should not be usurping the already mature and advanced BW scene of the limelight. Newer is NOT better, and if not just because of the games themselves, then because SC2 has not had the time to develop to a mature and competitive game on the level of BW. So why should we force this game into primetime slots and drop money on it like no tomorrow, when the product is not as entertaining as BW because of the dilution of the skill base and the currently low skill ceiling? "Because we hope to achieve what BW has achieved someday, and doing these things makes this day come sooner," you might say. All I have to say is that you're wrong. BW came from dirt to royalty over years of development. As the game progressed in terms of average skill and entertainment values, sponsors naturally approached the scene and that is where the money should come from - investing in a product that has already proven its worth in a competitive setting. There are too many things wrong with SC2 and the people who are trying to promote it right now to safely say that it will succeed as a prosport. Trying to cut off the head of BW so that SC2 can thrive is just one glaring example of how WEAK even the people trying to promote the game think it is (or the scene/potential entertainment value is).
Take your slightly shittier timeslot, simply because BW has had this time slot and why be a dick like your company and try to take it away simply on the grounds that your game came out more recently. Well you know what, I can't watch SC2 games with the same intensity that I can watch BW games, so fuck you for thinking that this move is okay. I want my BW scene alive and intact - people are already moving to SC2 if they want to. And you know what? If your game is really so great, it will rise in ratings and eventually it will have the swing to knock out BW, maybe. Until then, stop supporting this movement to kill the only true Esport in the world. Assholes. QFT Blind SC2 idiots, take your time and read this
Yay Murderotica for awesome writing!
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yay! another proleague season means more SCBW games. im happy. although i dont see why this whole situation can't be solve quicker. SCII is new, so they should let the more established and popular Brood War take the prime time slots
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I hate this situation because I'm a deep fan of both games. I might watch SC2 games slightly more frequently these days, but Brood War at the top level is just as entertaining as it's always been. I don't understand why these companies are trying to milk us dry. Gretech and Blizzard obviously see SC2 as a huge source of revenue compared to BW, so it makes sense that they don't give a shit about BW anymore. But that sucks, because BW is an awesome game that still has a huge following. The top BW players are the only people in the world who can really claim the title of "best video game players" and that will probably never change, considering the skill ceilings of the new games that are coming out. I feel really bad for the BW pros, they are getting the shit end of the deal either way, and all they want to do is play their favorite game at the highest level and not starve to death.
On the other hand, SC2 is really fun to play. The only reason I watch SC2 games these days is to get ideas and strategies to implement in my own play. This is the exact same reason why professional BW was so amazing to me back in 2003-2004, when I first learned about it. However, I don't play BW anymore and I still find it entertaining as hell to watch. I don't know if I'll be able to say the same about SC2 in 5 or 10 years, but I know for a fact I'll still be able to say that about BW. What really pisses me off, though, is how Gretech is charging us, non-koreans, for the GSL vods. That's completely contrary to everything I've ever known about e-sports, it hurts the fans and the scene in general for some lousy tournament that there will apparently be dozens of in the future. And moreover, the philosophy behind it is completely skewed and unsustainable to foster real SC2 professionals. Sure, first place gets $85,000, and is able to eat for the next year and then some, but the rest of the players who might be almost just as good get completely shafted and have to worry about how to feed themselves until the next tournament, the next opportunity at greatness and monetary peace-of-mind. Meanwhile we get charged $20 just to watch while almost none of our money goes to the underdogs. If this was a team league, maybe I'd help support it. If it was a team league, where professional-quality players could practice together all day every day and not have to worry about basic necessities, it would be worth the money. But as it stands right now Gretech is fucking the BW pros, the potential SC2 pros, and the fans all at once. KeSPA isn't helping at all either, but at least I understand where they're coming from.
I just hope the proleague continues and Blizzard forgets about Korea and focuses on fostering high-end competitions in north america for once, and invites top players from around the world to participate. Only then will we (non-koreans) get the best of both worlds.
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if BW is killed, i'm boycotting blizzard too
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I'm still confused as to what exactly is happening. Or what this stems from.
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JUST like the brawl-melee effect, the top pros finally backing up the game they've dedicated their blood and tears to.
i never thought that it would become so big that it would be large corporations warring with each other.
it seems to me blizzard is trying to shut down the korean starcraft scene, because it can open people's eye that bw is a clearly a better game, and it will hurt blizzard's plot to make sc2 a worldwide e-sport money
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Am I the only one who.... I mean, doesn't care of the video game changes every few years?
I understand people being mad BW is dying, and I respect that, but I've never played any RTS more then a few years. For people saying "Yeah, and in 5 years, SC2 will be replaced with something else!!! ... So? New games get traded in and out of things like Evo and WCG all the time without universes exploding.
I know we all want Video games to be like, Soccer, and not be replaced every few years, but I don't think it's realistic.
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it's kind of like parents abandoning a baby.
blizzard left bw and didn't care about it, and koreans picked it up and made it grow into the greatest e-sport in history. all of a sudden blizzard wants to pick up that baby and claim it for their own, seeing how successful it can be in terms of making money. the decision should be left with the baby, or rather bw, whether it wants to be with kespa or blizzard. the answer is obvious, since korean progaming is the heart and soul of true broodwar players, therefore korean progaming IS broodwar
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On September 09 2010 07:42 Nephrahim wrote: Am I the only one who.... I mean, doesn't care of the video game changes every few years?
I understand people being mad BW is dying, and I respect that, but I've never played any RTS more then a few years. For people saying "Yeah, and in 5 years, SC2 will be replaced with something else!!! ... So? New games get traded in and out of things like Evo and WCG all the time without universes exploding.
I know we all want Video games to be like, Soccer, and not be replaced every few years, but I don't think it's realistic.
Well there is a big difference between letting something run its course and trying to murder something.
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On September 09 2010 07:54 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: it's kind of like parents abandoning a baby.
blizzard left bw and didn't care about it, and koreans picked it up and made it grow into the greatest e-sport in history. all of a sudden blizzard wants to pick up that baby and claim it for their own, seeing how successful it can be in terms of making money. the decision should be left with the baby, or rather bw, whether it wants to be with kespa or blizzard. the answer is obvious, since korean progaming is the heart and soul of true broodwar players, therefore korean progaming IS broodwar
Well you got something wrong, they want to pick up that baby and then shake it several times, then put it in a cage.
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Anyone know the specifics of the time-slot issue?
It would be cool if SC1/SC2 were back to back!
It would be like the old days watching smallville, then supernatural back to back. It was a good night for me.
But SC1 has OSL/MSL/PL while SC2 only has GSL? I imagine GSL has a lot of games to do, and should be similar to the amount of games from all three BW leagues? I don't exactly know whats what, and cant really say much about it... but I just hope everything pans out alright. I just wish Kespa is more willing to accommodate more but this does not seem to be the case. Surely those two can work things out and everything will be fine!
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On September 09 2010 08:04 Lokian wrote: Anyone know the specifics of the time-slot issue?
It would be cool if SC1/SC2 were back to back!
It would be like the old days watching smallville, then supernatural back to back. It was a good night for me.
But SC1 has OSL/MSL/PL while SC2 only has GSL? I imagine GSL has a lot of games to do, and should be similar to the amount of games from all three BW leagues? I don't exactly know whats what, and cant really say much about it... but I just hope everything pans out alright. I just wish Kespa is more willing to accommodate more but this does not seem to be the case. Surely those two can work things out and everything will be fine!
Apparently GSL is running every month, so I don't think that there will be any lack of games (we're barely halfway through Ro64 and it's been a week). I agree that a version of PL would be nice, but it's not really as necessary as some people seem to think; other individual sports work just fine without teams. There just has to be more money thrown in. Honestly I think that if Gretech/Blizzard just chill for a month or two and see what happens and then decide on a course of action everything would go more slowly. They seem to be desperate, which really shouldn't be the case; Blizzard should support their partner as much as they need if they want this to work.
loling at all the 'progaming IS BW'; obviously people want to change that, that's why this whole thing is happening. It's just a matter of degree, some people think Gretech went too far and I can see why, going too far yourselves isn't going to change anything.
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Just a note I'd like to add.
All those accusations about Gretech and Blizzard want to eliminate proteam scene are false.
If you spend a little bit of time looking at GSL ladder. Over 80% of the competitors are from proteam such as Prime, Ogs, Werra, Nex...
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Why are people declaring the battle already over in court? I think most of the people here (including myself) do not have a clear understanding of the Korean legal system... so why is it so clear that either party is going to win?
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Canada2480 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:40 drixta wrote: Just a note I'd like to add.
All those accusations about Gretech and Blizzard want to eliminate proteam scene are false.
If you spend a little bit of time looking at GSL ladder. Over 80% of the competitors are from proteam such as Prime, Ogs, Werra, Nex...
''- Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.''
incredible support to proteams...
beside, Ogs, Werra etc. are proteams but are NOT in a teamleague of some sort thus your argument doesn't hold.
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Ugh, I don't know what to say. I mean, I'm really happy they'll just go on with the proleague, but it's not like it's because they sorted things out, but the complete opposite. Sounds to me that at this point, both parties have just decided on making it as hard as possible for the other party. I doubt they'll ever sort things out with this approach.
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KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
and then blizzard-gretech will sue kespas ass and GG kespa. KESPA FAGS DOWN CAPITALISM UP
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On September 09 2010 07:42 Nephrahim wrote: Am I the only one who.... I mean, doesn't care of the video game changes every few years?
I understand people being mad BW is dying, and I respect that, but I've never played any RTS more then a few years. For people saying "Yeah, and in 5 years, SC2 will be replaced with something else!!! ... So? New games get traded in and out of things like Evo and WCG all the time without universes exploding.
I know we all want Video games to be like, Soccer, and not be replaced every few years, but I don't think it's realistic.
I'm positive that if KeSPA wins the inevitable lawsuit and that the pro teams and Proleague survive, we'll have Brood War for at least another decade, if not longer. Brood War is still more popular in South Korea and there's really no reason whatsoever for players who are at the top of Brood War and on a pro team to move over to SC2.
Frankly, a steady salary with a pro team is far better than the Gretech model of, "just enough money to get by via your sponsor (if you're good enough to get a sponsor) and you'll make money assuming you win a tournament!" I think the BW pro teams model with actual salaries would be far more preferable to anyone at the top level of gaming and it's honestly what's given BW the long life it already has. So, yeah, Brood War will continue long after SC2 is "finished" so long as the game doesn't get shafted by Gretech/Blizzard. Why do you even think that Gretech/Blizzard are doing everything in their power to end BW? Because they know that BW isn't going to die anytime soon on its own.
edit: Before someone points out, "BUT OMG SC2 HAS PRO TEAMS TOO," yes. You're correct, there are pro teams for players who are good enough to get on them. The BW Proleague allows B-level players to get on a team and grow, which is what a lot (if not all) of the current high level players did. Jaedong used to suck until his team and his coach helped him grow his talents, stories like Jaedong's will be impossible in the Gretech system of, "no more Proleague, you have to be super good from the get go to even have a shot at making this a career." Honestly, do you think IdrA would even be a top contender if he hadn't gotten the opportunity to practice at CJ Entus and eSTRO? Probably not.
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Hmm.. Blizzard is making a lot of enemies fast... I cant believe how fast they're ruining their reputation.
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