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On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis
It's kind of coincidental he's doing a new, very well performing build all of the sudden before his all TvZ OSL group. It could be intentional, as Flash has been working hard to curbstomp the "predictable" rep he's gotten since Fantasy wrecked his 14cc awhile ago. I could see him switching it up massively to throw off the Zs in his group.
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new flash build TvZ yay!
seriously though, Roro's lurkers looked like it had a lot of potential to at least stop Flash's advance in the midgame. losing 4 lurkers in Flash's base was a big (and stupid) mistake.
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On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis Maybe Flash has a build that looks like the build he used tonight but will secretly be a counter to the counter to his build.
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On June 21 2009 15:50 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis Maybe Flash has a build that looks like the build he used tonight but will secretly be a counter to the counter to his build.
nah that's too deep dude
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On June 21 2009 15:49 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis It's kind of coincidental he's doing a new, very well performing build all of the sudden before his all TvZ OSL group. It could be intentional, as Flash has been working hard to curbstomp the "predictable" rep he's gotten since Fantasy wrecked his 14cc awhile ago. I could see him switching it up massively to throw off the Zs in his group.
if it is.. that would be awesome... I'm really looking forward to the OSL group stages..
and i'm very relieved that flash advanced 2-0.. which means he doesn't need to practise for MSL unlike bisu and jaedong..
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On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis
There are a lot of possible reasons for showing the build now.
- I think history has shown that it takes more than just a few televised games for the opposing race to really figure out what's going on.
- He might want to give the build some "real world" field testing and get a better idea for how pros react (presumably other KT players are well aware of this build by now).
- He might not intend for this to be an "end all" build. It could help Flash get into JD/Effort/Yarnc's heads. It's yet another thing they have to worry about and figure out a counter for. He could even take the mind games a level further and fake this build and wreak major havoc with the ensuing overreaction.
The key with new builds (until they're proven to be viable long term) is to stay one step ahead. Bisu was one step ahead with his FE play for a LONG time, but I would wager that even average pro Zergs today could beat him if they were transported into Savior's position in the MSL finals. Unless it's blindingly obvious how to counter this build, showing it 3 times before OSL doesn't really hurt, and might help!
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On June 21 2009 15:47 nomis321 wrote: Does anyone know the # of wins for JD/Bisu/Flash now in the PL?
JD: 50 Flash: 50 Bisu: 49
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United States2822 Posts
Just analyzing the build (I don't claim to know ANYTHING about TvZ as I'm a D- Protoss player, but still).
Early Vultures put pressure on Zerg's natural or possibly third and forces Sunkens to be made, killing drones and losing mining time. Mines thwart early aggression and map movement - this also forces Overlords around the map to spot for mines. Range-upped Goliaths and Turrets fend off any Muta harass that is possible. After Muta harass is deflected, Barracks are added and Stim/Siege are researched. Tanks provide the bulk of the firepower of the army, with a sizeable MnM/Goliath wall protecting them. Overlords that were used to spot for mines are slaughtered by MnM/Goliath during the push. Hydras are ineffective because of the high amount of MnM and their weakness to tanks. Mutas are ineffective because of the high amount of MnM and ranged Goliaths. Zerglings are ineffective because of the amount of... stuff. The push comes out early enough that the Zerg is forced to make even more Sunkens at the natural. 4/6 Barracks pumping MnM also gives the army enough mobility to send the primary group of MnM/Gol/Tank to pressure the natural while small groups of maybe 12 MnM can go hunting for expansions if the Zerg tries to overexpand. Vessel timing is just about where the Zerg is about to get hive tech. Overcommitting to frontal defense against tank also leaves the possibility of Dropship play - one Dropship and 8 MnM should be very easy to accommodate with the build.
I could be totally off base, but this is what I saw conspire in the game. Obviously the push is stronger if there are close positions because it can switch from defense to offense really quickly. The push seems to be pretty reliant on positioning as well.
The four Lurkers RorO lost in the runby were also pretty bad. They could have been instrumental in an earlier flank attempt on the army, when it only had one or two tanks.
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I think this build is going to cause problems for the really aggressive zerg players out there. (see: JD)
When was the last time JD went hive tech anyway...
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On June 21 2009 15:51 Tyxiquale wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2009 15:49 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis It's kind of coincidental he's doing a new, very well performing build all of the sudden before his all TvZ OSL group. It could be intentional, as Flash has been working hard to curbstomp the "predictable" rep he's gotten since Fantasy wrecked his 14cc awhile ago. I could see him switching it up massively to throw off the Zs in his group. if it is.. that would be awesome... I'm really looking forward to the OSL group stages.. and i'm very relieved that flash advanced 2-0.. which means he doesn't need to practise for MSL unlike bisu and jaedong..
Yeah, that 2-0 was HUGE. JD has to play Flash on RoTK on July 1st, followed by Leta on Outsider the next day, and then if he wins that, Movie on Byzantium. If anyone can do it, the monster Jaedong can, but this looks really really tough and I'll be very surprised if JD manages to go 3-0 in these games.
Edit: Wow, Flash's ELO is now:
2221 vs T 2222 vs Z 2222 vs P
2nd place in all three categories ... 2's gone wild.
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He also just hit his TvZ elo peak.
Talk about good timing to be good against Zergs!
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Flash on a streak Violet still kicking ass
Luxury stil failing...
Ah KT...
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Not sure this is Flash's build. I saw Canata did this kind of build vs Hogil like 2 weeks ago.
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anyone remember flash vs ggplay where ggplay spent the whole game setting up for a massive lurker/ling + muta flank on flash, and when it finally went down flash lost.. basically nothing at all.
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United States12607 Posts
Flash...suddenly putting up characteristically monstrous results
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On June 21 2009 17:30 JWD wrote: Flash...suddenly putting up characteristically monstrous results Hell, It's About Time, man, It's About Time
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FlaSh was really impressive on Outsider. He really anticipated Mutalisk so well. The last fight was awesome. excellent micro! Lurker didn't live long time.
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On June 21 2009 15:50 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2009 15:47 Tyxiquale wrote: i wonder why flash would reveal this new build in gom and proleague...
why wouldn't u do a fantasy and save a special TvZ build for the right moment.. eg.. osl semis Maybe Flash has a build that looks like the build he used tonight but will secretly be a counter to the counter to his build.
I laughed so hard
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Bearded Elder29876 Posts
Yeah, go FlaSh, bring me more fantasy points ! Well done KT !
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