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Canada8772 Posts
On December 14 2018 09:38 Popkiller wrote: if I'm understanding the system correctly, it is a situation where we can have two players that:
-Both live in Korea. -Both play in GSL. -Both are talented but not championship-level, say they occasionally make the Ro16.
-But, one of them doesn't have the option to travel and compete in WCS.
And the only reason is... he's Korean? Am I missing something? Genuine question.
Technically the difference is that he dosen't have the status of permanent resident in a country outside of South Korea, but ya it's pretty much that.
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ouch so I guess Blizzard just pulled the plug on the heroes of the storm pro scene, I don't think it will happen to sc2 but still its interesting
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On December 13 2018 17:12 dummy1 wrote:
Discuss and do not be a two-face. Of course they think it's unfair. It's by design. Even the foreign community is divided and always has been divided if the tradeoff is good for the foreign scene.
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I can't agree on the proposal of removing EU/US player or even make GSL a Korean limited tournament is a good idea. Running away from competition is just making you weak. GSL should be keep open. The problem is not EU/US players making Korean player got no income to support themselves, but too less tournaments to play with.
In the old day, we had GSL and SSL, and also Proleague. At that time, 20~30 players could be benefited from the earning of these games, and worked on their own abilities. However, after the disband of major teams and loss of SSL, KR scenario is only rely on GSL, making only the top 10 or even top 5 could be supported.
In this case, making a KR limited tournament is just meaningless. Removing Neeb/Serral/Reynor/Special/Scarlett... actually makes no much difference in the KR scenario. You might only better support like 2~3 players actually. If we really want to change the dire situation of no newcomer in KR, only way is giving more tournaments to play, not closing the slot. Ceasing the competition between different player from different country is just harmful, both to the tournament and to the players.
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Based on what just got announced with the HGC, we should probably thank our lucky stars if nothing at all happens to WCS/GSL. Things could be more unfair. A LOT more unfair. Like abruptly losing your job unfair.
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The Foreign scene seems to be thriving, with new up and coming talent added to the mix on a regular basis.
The Korean scene is slowly fading away, from what appears to be a lack of opportunity for players to compete.
Now, is there ANY FEASIBLE WAY to see sustainable, continued growth not only outside of Korea, but also within Korea?
Is this an issue of funding, an issue of interest in the game, or lack there of? Is there anything the community can do as a whole to see SC2 succeed, continue to grow, and provide incentive for young up and comers to have a real shot at becoming a pro who makes a career out of this, no matter where they live?
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Canada8772 Posts
On December 14 2018 10:54 SetStndbySmn wrote: Based on what just got announced with the HGC, we should probably thank our lucky stars if nothing at all happens to WCS/GSL. Things could be more unfair. A LOT more unfair. Like abruptly losing your job unfair.
The general message coming from the community member is that SC2 will have more money next year, at least the WCS side of it, Blizz was happy with the numbers at the summit. Nothing confirmed yet but it's seems like starcraft should be ok for next year.
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I don't find the line of argument that "the Korean scene is going to die anyway so who cares" to be very compelling. Everyone knows that the Korean SC2 scene has been very important to SC2's history and has consistently provided the highest level of play for many years. To willingly let the Korean scene die because it is some sort of pragmatic business decision does not sit well with me and, as I suspect, many other fans of SC2. Maybe most Koreans will go to military in 2-3 years but does not mean that we should neglect them right now as they are still playing at professional level.
Edit: I should add, I do not think most people supporting region lock think like this but I just find it annoying that some people do seem to believe this (that the Korean scene doesn't matter anymore and it's somehow "reasonable" to let it die off). I am not for completely removing region lock but I do hope that there are more opportunities for mid-level Korean players to play in foreign tournaments. Of course, it will be difficult to find a solution for this just as it is difficult to make things more fair for the Korean scene, but it is nonetheless a worthy goal.
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Lock Korea SC2 to death. Kill hen to get eggs. I just want exciting games,not European ZvZvZvZvZvZ.
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Kim Phan is just straight-up ignorant. Does she even know how hard it is to get the P1 visa to compete in WCS events in the US? It is thousands of dollar investment and that is just financial investment alone, not counting time and effort. It is not a piece of cake like most of foreigners getting a visitor visa from South Korea and stay there for 6 months like no one's business. With that kind of mindset, no wonder SC2 scene in KR becomes a black hole.
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The region lock is racial discrimination against Koreans which is strictly prohibited by US constitution, hope you guys are aware of that.
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If the korean scene dies then Terran dies and they have by far the most entertaining matchups. I would stop watching SC2 if 90% of the pro scene was PvZ, ZvZ, and some PvP which is basically the reason I have little to no interest in WCS. A T hasn't even made it to the final of a WCS tournament since Polt in early 2016. I feel like Terran dying would hurt the SC2 scene overall far more than Korean domination.
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Canada8772 Posts
On December 14 2018 14:00 Vutalisk wrote: Kim Phan is just straight-up ignorant. Does she even know how hard it is to get the P1 visa to compete in WCS events in the US? It is thousands of dollar investment and that is just financial investment alone, not counting time and effort. It is not a piece of cake like most of foreigners getting a visitor visa from South Korea and stay there for 6 months like no one's business. With that kind of mindset, no wonder SC2 scene in KR becomes a black hole.
Well of course she (or whoever is making the call for the sc2 division) know the whole point is to make it hard, if it was easy they would just find another requirement. Also I don't think a P1 visa is good enough anymore anyway you need permanent resident, but back in the day I'm not sure most player were getting athletic visa anyway, it would be interesting to go back, but apart from Violet and I think Polt, who stayed in NA a lot longer, I didn't remember hearing about player getting them. I think most people were just on business/tourist trip. I could be wrong but with the number of koreans/chinese players in WCS america 2013-14 I would be very surprise if they actually went to the procedure of getting those kind of Visa, especially since Violet had all the pain in the world getting it.
On December 14 2018 14:04 FAkeJinAirMaru wrote: The region lock is racial discrimination against Koreans which is strictly prohibited by US constitution, hope you guys are aware of that. The very definition of a constitution is that it apply to the people of the country. Americans can be as racist as they want against everyone who is not American/not in the United States.
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If nothing changes in the next year, I'm out. I'm against the discrimination and double standards. Morality and conscience are always welcomed but not in starcraft 2. I can't stay with it and I don't want to argue with people.
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Koreans not caring about SC2 didn't come about because of the region lock. Since the game came out they haven't cared about it nearly as much as BW. How is new blood supposed to come into the scene if barely anyone cares enough about the game to go pro?
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Gotta region lock Finland next. They winning everything.
But yeah, region lock is making it unfair for Koreans. Foreigners get to earn money from both WCS and GSL, but Koreans only can play in korea. In a way, it's racism. Imagine you being good at your work and getting paid less because of your nationality.
I think a korean qualifier for WCS is fair, and vice versa. This way, both scene will always have a healthy amount of competition from either side.
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If they want to remove region to make it fair they would have to make GSL 3 day event. Because competing in GSL is actually pretty huge commitment. Or just remove GSL and add 4 more global events (1 of them might be in Korea). If we don't want to treat Korea different, then that would make a lot of sense.
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It's time to join the region lock chant for the Advancement of the Glorious Future of the Game: LIFT THE LOCK! LIFT THE LOCK! LIFT THE LOCK!
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On December 14 2018 15:47 Avicularia wrote: If they want to remove region to make it fair they would have to make GSL 3 day event. Because competing in GSL is actually pretty huge commitment. Or just remove GSL and add 4 more global events (1 of them might be in Korea). If we don't want to treat Korea different, then that would make a lot of sense.
I understand where you're coming from but I don't think anyone would want GSL to change or be removed. It has so much history behind it that I don't think any Korean progamer (and most fans as well) would be ok with that. I think region lock should be relaxed but not completely. A lot of solutions have been thrown around, including the possibility of having some mid-level Koreans (Koreans who didn't qualify for GSL or got knocked out early) be allowed to play in WCS Circuit tournaments. Of course, that has the problem of disincentivizing good performance in the GSL. This is a good point but I believe that Korean progamers have enough integrity and care about GSL enough to try their best, which would mitigate the problem significantly. I think this proposal would make the WCS Circuit tournaments more entertaining (not that they aren't, of course) while being beneficial to the Korean scene.
That being said, I think the most viable option would be to keep region lock intact while expanding its scope by region locking the GSL to Korea. This idea so far seems to have the most support among fans and progamers (at least based on what I have seen on twitter, lol).
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
In the end all you can do is to pressure Blizzard via media and via your wallet. If you send Blizzard your feedback and the result of it - it's up to them if they want to ignore it or not. I am not buying anything from Blizzard and I am not watching WCS until the situation is more fair(I'm not saying they have to release the lock over WCS, but help the Korean scene).
It's Blizzard's game, it's Blizzard's money, it's essentially their choice. Similarly it's mine choice where my money and time(which is technically money ) will go.
(not liking zvz helps to ignore WCS without any remorse )
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