|
Opponent early expands and stays tier 1, getting den and speed/range upgrade and evo chamber for +1 attack.
If I try early aggression, he scouts and builds enough sunkens at natural while he builds up.
If I try to leave base, he has mass hydra split into three groups and he just attacks from three sides simultaneously.
If I try to tech too fast, he attack moves a billion hydras into natural and wins.
If I keep a sufficient defense at my natural, hoping to push out later, he just mass expands and when I finally do come out, there's a billion more hydras.
If I try to keep my original squads alive to monitor expansions, he just runs around (hydras are damn faster than my M&M) until he has a surround, then attacks from multiple sides.
Any engagement between M&M and hydra where he will lose, he fast runs away and preserves units. But any engagement where I will lose, I can't retreat as fast as pursuing hydras.
What the fuck do I do?
|
On July 19 2018 16:48 andrewl wrote: What the fuck do I do? Posting a replay to get help is a good start. Hydras vs bio should never be a problem.
|
Taking only one base and get a Siege Tank as soon as, then mass it.
|
Bio (marine + medic) + 2fact tank wrecks hydra real hard. If he adds in lurkers, it gets more tricky.
Be sure to keep up in upgrades (stim, range, weapon, armor from engineering bay), and bases. If he is going pure hydra, it should be an autowin for you (bio is pretty much a hardcounter).
|
We need a replay, because as a zerg I would only mass hydras as a timing allin because massing hydras vs mnm is suicide
|
You only need M&M, nothing more. Tanks are too slow to siege / unsiege and can be easily picked off - only make tanks when game goes longer. 5 rax for the win.
|
That's usually indication of a zerg who wishes to get a 3rd and turtle/drop.
Call me old fashioned, but I love long macro games and as a result, I happily post little squads of MnM at their nat, and outside their 3rd while I take my own 3rd (possibly 4th) then b-line it straight to mech :D
A really good game that shows you how to handle this situation is this game of Cryoc vs Machine on Gladiator: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/285000847?t=3h25m45s
|
I think he meant mass hydra not 3 hath lurker.
|
Norway28267 Posts
if it's only hydra then only m&m is definitely good enough. get your +1 attack upgrade quickly. if it's hydra lurker then go 2 factory tank.
one important thing is that the bigger the engagement, the better the terran army does. (unless it's m&m vs lurkers in which case the opposite applies). if you fight 10 marine3 medic vs 10 hydra he can target fire and pick off marine by marine making the medics fairly useless. if it's 20 marine 6 medic vs 20 hydras however, it becomes kinda impossible to micro target fire with two groups while maintaining good spread and pulling back weak links, and then the become significantly more useful. so if you see him making only hydras with no lair, don't try to move out with your first 12 marine squad. time is your friend in this scenario. (assuming you fast expanded - if you didn't, start doing that before fixing anything else).
|
On July 19 2018 20:36 kogeT wrote: I think he meant mass hydra not 3 hath lurker.
Woops. You are right! My bad
|
Thanks guys, this is good advice. I'd post a replay but we're just 1400-1500 players and I fear you'd find that so many basic game mechanics need fixing before addressing the 3h hydras
JieXian: ugh I know, that's why it's so frustrating - I know in a pro game nobody would do this, but it's working so well against me
[Fin]Vittu: and an example game! thanks!
Liquid`Drone: great point! I'm indeed moving out with 1 or 2 groups, and losing them over and over, so never collecting a "critical mass"
Upon closer inspection of the replay, my engages with the hydras aren't great. Even though I'm outnumbered, the trades are not in my favor. My marines will stick out of the front of the group and get eliminated, or the medics will be lagging behind. Any tips on making sure my medics are distributed and standing still within my marines? Currently I have marines on, say, 1, and 2 and medics on 3. Then I move with 1rclick, 2rclick, 3rclick and when I see a group, I'll try to 1,a,lclick,2,a,lclick, and 3 rclick as close to marines as possible. But I lose a second because the medics have to finish the move command before healing. Should I tell the medics to 's' stop instead? Or have them on follow?
|
Right, medics won't heal while moving with right click. You want heal ability + left click.
|
easy, double fact tank and see how hydra perform against 10 sieges tanks. We have been damaged so much by that in the past (2000 - 2003? lol), that is why no decent zerg plays this way anymore and go fast hive instead.
|
On July 19 2018 23:49 andrewl wrote:Thanks guys, this is good advice. I'd post a replay but we're just 1400-1500 players and I fear you'd find that so many basic game mechanics need fixing before addressing the 3h hydras JieXian: ugh I know, that's why it's so frustrating - I know in a pro game nobody would do this, but it's working so well against me [Fin]Vittu: and an example game! thanks! Liquid`Drone: great point! I'm indeed moving out with 1 or 2 groups, and losing them over and over, so never collecting a "critical mass" Upon closer inspection of the replay, my engages with the hydras aren't great. Even though I'm outnumbered, the trades are not in my favor. My marines will stick out of the front of the group and get eliminated, or the medics will be lagging behind. Any tips on making sure my medics are distributed and standing still within my marines? Currently I have marines on, say, 1, and 2 and medics on 3. Then I move with 1rclick, 2rclick, 3rclick and when I see a group, I'll try to 1,a,lclick,2,a,lclick, and 3 rclick as close to marines as possible. But I lose a second because the medics have to finish the move command before healing. Should I tell the medics to 's' stop instead? Or have them on follow? You usually use the heal command when you move your medics (which should also be a-move, if you use the standard English shortcuts).
Honestly this post including your OP makes me angry. You want some advice on how to play but you refuse to give any information about the game at hand and basically only complain how there is seemingly no way for you to win because your opponent counters everything? Why even bother asking for help in the first place then? There is no way you really can get good advice, including strategical advice, when we don't even know how you even started the game.
|
United States1431 Posts
You may have been trolled by TT1.
|
First of all: Cryoc is right.
1.) Posts like yours asking for help on how to play the game belong in the BW strategy section. If you read the forum guidelines you'd know that and that you should put a [H] for "help" in front of the topic. 2.) If you make a help-post, it should include a replay and a more detailed personal analysis of your problem by yourself, to show that you already did everything/a lot to help yourself. If you use the search-function of this website (and choose to only search the BW-strategy-section), you can easily find threads about how to deal with mass-hydra. 3.) If you're just out for a quick answer or a little orientation (aka: too lazy to look it up yourself; but I admit, asking is faster oftentimes), use the "Simple Questions, Simple Answers"-Thread in the BW-Strategy-Section.
That said, everyone was new here at some point. And we can't let you go without knowing how to a-move marine&medic xD
On July 20 2018 00:13 xehcechbsky wrote: Right, medics won't heal while moving with right click. You want heal ability + left click.
Most people tell you to just a-move (aka attack-move) the medics, but technically this guy with the unspellable name right. The hotkey for heal-ability is also "A". So if you just a-move everything, your medics will move somewhere with a heal command, healing anything in range that is damaged.
On July 19 2018 23:49 andrewl wrote:
Upon closer inspection of the replay, my engages with the hydras aren't great. Even though I'm outnumbered, the trades are not in my favor. My marines will stick out of the front of the group and get eliminated, or the medics will be lagging behind. Any tips on making sure my medics are distributed and standing still within my marines? Currently I have marines on, say, 1, and 2 and medics on 3. Then I move with 1rclick, 2rclick, 3rclick and when I see a group, I'll try to 1,a,lclick,2,a,lclick, and 3 rclick as close to marines as possible. But I lose a second because the medics have to finish the move command before healing. Should I tell the medics to 's' stop instead? Or have them on follow?
Generally speaking, you ALWAYS a-move your marines AND medics anywhere. Unless you're 100% sure that you won't encounter enemies or that you specifically don't WANT your units to fight those enemies (like when you want all your marines to retreat from lurkers or other units that are in firing-range).
Your medics can be grouped with other marines because a-move will let everyone do the job (marines attack, medics heal).
You always want to have as many marines as possible shooting at opponents, so try to spread them out sufficiently and place your a-move-commands a bit past and to the side of targets, not directly in front of targets or behind the targets. Otherwise the marines in the front will block those in the back for a moment. Also avoid a-moving on the ground too close to your marines (like you wrote you did until now), because then some in the back might not even move in range of the targets.
One situation to look out for: If you a-move somewhere and your marines start attacking something, but you don't stim and your marines don't take other damage, then your medics will keep walking on because there is nothing in range to heal. In that case, make sure that you a-move your medic-group somewhere close to your marines so that the medics don't wander off (to their death).
|
cryoc:
You want some advice on how to play but you refuse to give any information about the game at hand and basically only complain how there is seemingly no way for you to win because your opponent counters everything?
I am describing what is happening to me in game. Its tone carries my frustration, but I am NOT claiming that there's no way for me to win. I know that 3-hatch hydras don't trouble good players, which is why I came here to ask for help.
There is no way you really can get good advice, including strategical advice, when we don't even know how you even started the game.
I'm not good enough to follow strict build orders, but in these games I start with supply at 9/10, then the same SCV builds 1 barracks, then at 14 I am building command center, supply, marine. That's when I lose sight of a build and just get academy/ebay/5rax as money comes in.
|
You always want to have as many marines as possible shooting at opponents, so try to spread them out sufficiently and place your a-move-commands a bit past and to the side of targets, not directly in front of targets or behind the targets. Otherwise the marines in the front will block those in the back for a moment. Also avoid a-moving on the ground too close to your marines (like you wrote you did until now), because then some in the back might not even move in range of the targets.
One situation to look out for: If you a-move somewhere and your marines start attacking something, but you don't stim and your marines don't take other damage, then your medics will keep walking on because there is nothing in range to heal. In that case, make sure that you a-move your medic-group somewhere close to your marines.
This is great advice, thanks!
|
You're welcome.
On July 20 2018 01:08 andrewl wrote:cryoc: Show nested quote +You want some advice on how to play but you refuse to give any information about the game at hand and basically only complain how there is seemingly no way for you to win because your opponent counters everything? I am describing what is happening to me in game. Its tone carries my frustration, but I am NOT claiming that there's no way for me to win. I know that 3-hatch hydras don't trouble good players, which is why I came here to ask for help.
Cryoc also meant: The way for you to win is not so much more help from this forum, but build-order practice in the single players, my friend.
It's a mixture of both really.
|
On July 20 2018 01:08 andrewl wrote:cryoc: Show nested quote +You want some advice on how to play but you refuse to give any information about the game at hand and basically only complain how there is seemingly no way for you to win because your opponent counters everything? I am describing what is happening to me in game. Its tone carries my frustration, but I am NOT claiming that there's no way for me to win. I know that 3-hatch hydras don't trouble good players, which is why I came here to ask for help. Show nested quote +There is no way you really can get good advice, including strategical advice, when we don't even know how you even started the game. I'm not good enough to follow strict build orders, but in these games I start with supply at 9/10, then the same SCV builds 1 barracks, then at 14 I am building command center, supply, marine. That's when I lose sight of a build and just get academy/ebay/5rax as money comes in. I guess then I can just say have fun playing BW, maybe you find a way to win consistently vs 3 hatch hydra without knowing or even having an interest in knowing how to 1 rax expand properly.
|
|
|
|