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On July 18 2018 23:06 JimmiC wrote: You are 100% right on Ibaka, he is Masia's biggest regret!
Dude fell in love with the player Serge used to be and couldn't remove the blinders that were causing him to ignore Ibaka's obvious shortcomings during that playoff run.
I was extremely disappointed to see him get that contract because I thought it was pretty obvious that Ibaka was aging quickly and on an accelerating downturn.
Too bad really. You'd figure at 28 we were finally getting the starting PF we've needed forever.
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this complaint by Derozan is not good for the Raptors team image. Derozan is saying the Raptors lied to him. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-extremely-upset-demar-derozan-felt-raptors-lied/
Michael Grange corroborated this report. Grange has a lot of credibility. So I'd say its probably true. Namely, Derozan feels the Raptors lied to him.
On July 19 2018 02:27 Nemireck wrote: Too bad really. You'd figure at 28 we were finally getting the starting PF we've needed forever. the Raptors are actually 23. i have no idea how old Serge is.
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On July 19 2018 03:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:this complaint by Derozan is not good for the Raptors team image. Derozan is saying the Raptors lied to him. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-extremely-upset-demar-derozan-felt-raptors-lied/Michael Grange corroborated this report. Grange has a lot of credibility. So I'd say its probably true. Namely, Derozan feels the Raptors lied to him. Show nested quote +On July 19 2018 02:27 Nemireck wrote: Too bad really. You'd figure at 28 we were finally getting the starting PF we've needed forever. the Raptors are actually 23. i have no idea how old Serge is.
Ibaka is 28 you wise-ass.
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On July 19 2018 02:27 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 23:06 JimmiC wrote: You are 100% right on Ibaka, he is Masia's biggest regret! Dude fell in love with the player Serge used to be and couldn't remove the blinders that were causing him to ignore Ibaka's obvious shortcomings during that playoff run. I was extremely disappointed to see him get that contract because I thought it was pretty obvious that Ibaka was aging quickly and on an accelerating downturn. Too bad really. You'd figure at 28 we were finally getting the starting PF we've needed forever. Yeah the fall off really started back in OKC but people didn't notice as much. IT is the reason to be worried about Deandre and Capela. Big dudes with Athleticism minor injuries can sap it fast cause they weigh so much.
Seriously though, for like the 5th time. It is racist and stupid to say you don't know Ibaka's age.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719392-serge-ibaka-releases-statement-regarding-age-discrepancy-rumors
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Ibaka's game had serious shortcomings even during his OKC tenure. If Westbrook/Durant passes him the ball, you want him to shoot it immediately. If he doesn't shoot immediately, he doesn't know what to do with the ball other than passing it back after holding it too long. That resets the entire offensive sequence.
Unless Green is a salary dump, it seems the Raptors are trading DeRozan for Kawhi almost straight up. The draft pick is heavily protected and become second round picks afterwards. It's really only useful if Kawhi isn't healthy and the Raps suck next year.
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On July 19 2018 04:50 andrewlt wrote: Ibaka's game had serious shortcomings even during his OKC tenure. If Westbrook/Durant passes him the ball, you want him to shoot it immediately. If he doesn't shoot immediately, he doesn't know what to do with the ball other than passing it back after holding it too long. That resets the entire offensive sequence.
Unless Green is a salary dump, it seems the Raptors are trading DeRozan for Kawhi almost straight up. The draft pick is heavily protected and become second round picks afterwards. It's really only useful if Kawhi isn't healthy and the Raps suck next year.
Even then its not. because if its better then 19 its the Raps. So they will get a at best 20th pick but like u said more likey some 2;s.. Green is a solid 3 and D guy our Wings just went from terrible on the d end to excellent. and no offenseive drop off.
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Derozan is an overrated scorer and not really a defender. San antionio needs someone to score though and Raps can put in vanfleet and Ibaka to cover up on their defensive side now. Kind of move might be what SA has needed for years i see with them KL clogging up the 3 rotation when u already got Rudy fing Gay and Danny Green and now DDroz? Like how many 3s can u actually play on 1 team. And Lamarcus A and Pau at the 4/5 and u really got a good squad. Bryn Forbes and GInobili at 1-2 or just play Demar at the 2 or Danny green.
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On July 19 2018 05:13 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2018 04:50 andrewlt wrote: Ibaka's game had serious shortcomings even during his OKC tenure. If Westbrook/Durant passes him the ball, you want him to shoot it immediately. If he doesn't shoot immediately, he doesn't know what to do with the ball other than passing it back after holding it too long. That resets the entire offensive sequence.
Unless Green is a salary dump, it seems the Raptors are trading DeRozan for Kawhi almost straight up. The draft pick is heavily protected and become second round picks afterwards. It's really only useful if Kawhi isn't healthy and the Raps suck next year.
Even then its not. because if its better then 19 its the Raps. So they will get a at best 20th pick but like u said more likey some 2;s.. Green is a solid 3 and D guy our Wings just went from terrible on the d end to excellent. and no offenseive drop off.
If Green isn't a salary dump, he is a solid player in the rotation. So the Spurs added Green to the trade while the Raptors added Poeltl and a heavily protected pick. That is pretty even, which is why I said it is an almost straight up trade between DeRozan and Kawhi in terms of value.
Since the pick is top-20 protected, the Raptors owe the Spurs a pick if they finish with one of the ten best records in the NBA, which is unlikely if Kawhi isn't healthy. Otherwise, it becomes second rounders.
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On July 19 2018 04:50 andrewlt wrote: Ibaka's game had serious shortcomings even during his OKC tenure. If Westbrook/Durant passes him the ball, you want him to shoot it immediately. If he doesn't shoot immediately, he doesn't know what to do with the ball other than passing it back after holding it too long. That resets the entire offensive sequence.
i got a laugh out of Kobe's "Detail" series outlining how Derozan was making less than optimal decisions with the ball because he was not relying on Ibaka more to be a play-maker and decision-maker.
the Raptors "ball movement" revolution worked pretty well during the regular season. Come playoff time it was turnover city for the 2018 Raptors. ISO Ball does have its benefits when you have guys like Luis Scola, Bizmack Biyombo, and Serge Ibaka as starters.
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Canada2764 Posts
I love this trade, and while DeRozan has been one of my favorite players since I got into the nba a couple years ago, it had to be done. You don't just let Kawhi slip your fingers. Plus, Danny Green lets up run a lot of incredibly nice lineups.
Small-ball 5 - Lowry/Green/Kawhi/OG/Siakam. (1-5 switchability, everyone can hit 3s other than Siakam, two good playmakers and a third okay one in Kawhi.) Medium-ball 5 - Lowry/Green/Kawhi/OG/Ibaka. (1-5 swithchability, everyone can hit 3s, playmaking is worse but Ibaka can protect the rim.) Huge Ball - Lowry/Kawhi/OG/Siakam/JV. (1-4 switchability plus JV to crush mismatches, Kawhi at the 2 is a walking mismatch, OG and Siakam can be surprisingly great too.)
Plus we preserve the bench mob quite well. I wonder who we'll get as a backup center. Boucher would be fun. FVV/Delon/CJ/Siakam or Ibaka/Boucher is a nasty bench.
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Delon Wright is a better player than Green; For the positionless era of basketball i take Wright over Green in the shooting guard position every day.
If Green's minutes stay around 25 it'll be interesting to see who gets those extra 10 minutes. I think those minutes will be spread between Wright/FVV/Powell.
its been 3 years since Green has shot over 40%. he is a good defender. Green will have to compete successfully to get minutes. If his shooting % continues its decline he'll lose some of his 25 minutes to Wright & Powell. At 31 years old and in the final year of his contract Green's career is at a crossroads.
i'd make Green the starter in order to keep the bench mob together. I think Wright and FVV work very well together.
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On July 19 2018 02:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: basically... Toronto is trading 2 years of Derozan at $27+M for 1 year of Leonard.
This statement doesn't at all factor into how likely each player is to re-sign. It could be 6 years of DD for 1 year of Kawhi
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Yeah I don't think Deronzan ever wanted to leave. So unless the Raps wanted to press reset (which it looks like they did) I think they could have had him for the long haul.
But I think there is no question that they are much better this year. Long term, I guess we will see. Kawhi is apparently "warming" up to T.O.
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On July 19 2018 21:53 JimmiC wrote: Yeah I don't think Deronzan ever wanted to leave. So unless the Raps wanted to press reset (which it looks like they did) I think they could have had him for the long haul.
But I think there is no question that they are much better this year. Long term, I guess we will see. Kawhi is apparently "warming" up to T.O.
That's just PR speak for "I still hate this but I'll be a professional."
Which is weirdly reassuring, actually. My concern has been that he pulls an Alonzo on us and we end up trading DeRozan and Poetl for Danny Green.
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I doubt Kawhi resigns with TOR and honestly I doubt TOR has any more success next season than they did last season. They had the best record in the East and a 2nd round exit, I don't think they do much better than that and if I they do get further in the playoffs I think it will have just as much to do with LeBron leaving their conference as it does with Kawhi joining their team.
I guess winning a championship is everything and I don't think DD was going to ever bring a championship to TOR so in that respect this move makes sense. I wonder if teams/fans would rather have say 4 years of your team being solid, doing well in the regular season and ok in the playoffs but never winning a championship before having to rebuild or if they would rather their team just immediately go into rebuild and suck ass and hope to draft players that can win them a championship which may never happen anyway.
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On July 19 2018 22:03 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2018 21:53 JimmiC wrote: Yeah I don't think Deronzan ever wanted to leave. So unless the Raps wanted to press reset (which it looks like they did) I think they could have had him for the long haul.
But I think there is no question that they are much better this year. Long term, I guess we will see. Kawhi is apparently "warming" up to T.O. That's just PR speak for "I still hate this but I'll be a professional." Which is weirdly reassuring, actually. My concern has been that he pulls an Alonzo on us and we end up trading DeRozan and Poetl for Danny Green. Likely yes, and I'm not worried about him not being at his best. HE can't play only 6 games over 2 years and get he massive contract he wants. I think he is going to bring it.
And I think the Raps will win the east! I'm currently buying the hype.
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On July 19 2018 22:16 BlackJack wrote: I doubt Kawhi resigns with TOR and honestly I doubt TOR has any more success next season than they did last season. They had the best record in the East and a 2nd round exit, I don't think they do much better than that and if I they do get further in the playoffs I think it will have just as much to do with LeBron leaving their conference as it does with Kawhi joining their team.
I guess winning a championship is everything and I don't think DD was going to ever bring a championship to TOR so in that respect this move makes sense. I wonder if teams/fans would rather have say 4 years of your team being solid, doing well in the regular season and ok in the playoffs but never winning a championship before having to rebuild or if they would rather their team just immediately go into rebuild and suck ass and hope to draft players that can win them a championship which may never happen anyway.
I think if Kawhi is healthy and playing as well as he can, the Raptors are noticeably better.
He provides the same scoring as DeRozan, but more efficient because he can shoot the 3 at 40%+ and brings NBA-best defense as well.
In a superstar-driven league, we traded a top-30 talent for top-5 talent. That makes a huge difference.
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