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On March 25 2015 22:42 Rob-Zero wrote:I´m from Haltern, too...actually my cousin was in that plane (she was one of the pupils). It´s just so sad...such young lives wasted, they had still so much things to experience.. R.I.P all those good lives on that plane. I just hope they did not suffer too much pain or agony... My condoleances, friend.
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Tragic...
And GermanWings/Lufthansa are the most reliable airlines in the world.
And I don't think it has much to do (if at all) with Airbus' quality. Although this can't be ruled out either.
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On March 26 2015 11:57 QuantumTeleportation wrote: Tragic...
And GermanWings/Lufthansa are the most reliable airlines in the world.
And I don't think it has much to do (if at all) with Airbus' quality. Although this can't be ruled out either. The plane was ~30 years old. If it was a general airbus problem, we'd have found out about it by now.
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On March 26 2015 12:08 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 11:57 QuantumTeleportation wrote: Tragic...
And GermanWings/Lufthansa are the most reliable airlines in the world.
And I don't think it has much to do (if at all) with Airbus' quality. Although this can't be ruled out either. The plane was ~30 years old. If it was a general airbus problem, we'd have found out about it by now.
True.
I guess this could mean that there were problems with servicing/maintenance.
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According to the latest news:
- One pilot left the cockpit some time after take off, and never got back in - CVR recorded normal conversation before, after one pilot leaving ,there is apparently nothing from the cockpit, but someone hammering on the door
Since 9/11 brought us "Reininforced Cockpit Doors" somebody in the cockpit can deny access to it.
- Door is locked on default throughout the flight - Door can be opened after somebody from outside sounds a buzzer and door switch in cockpit is flipped to 'unlock' - Door can be opened by a codepad in the cabin, but anybody in the cockpit can override the codepad by pushing the switch to 'lock' again, -standard setting is that this also will prevent unlock from cabin and the buzzer alarm for 5 Minutes. Everytime you press 'lock' again 5 more minutes are added, until a max of 20 min without pushing the switch again. - So someone with bad intent can lock the cabin door basicly forever.
So sadly this seems to be a suicide by the remaining pilot in the cockpit. Or someone that got in when the other pilot left. If the FDR is found and intact it will hold the data of the cockpitdoor switch.
Since the cockpit door openes inward the cockpit, the only other explaination could be that there was overpressure or a broken window in the Cockpit, or the cabin lost pressure, but i guess they cabin and cockpit are not separated, so it only could have been a gradient in pressure. Or pressure gradient was reveresed and the locks in the door just jammend.
Additionaly the pilot remaining in the cockpit must have got incapacitated, right after telling the autopilot to begin descend. Normal procedure would be :
- get oxygen mask - change the heading (did not happen) - program or begin emergency descend.
Also AP emergency descend would level on about 10.000 feet, and there are other systems on LH/ germanwings jets that contain detailed terrain information, and the heading was towards the alps, so sinking to 6800 feet must have either been intentional or error by the one in the cockpit.
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It also gives room to plenty of wild speculations in the gutter press. Can't wait to see the first incredibly far-fetched theories by some of those so-called "experts".
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Yea it all points to a suicide. It still comes back to human failure because the crew did not follow the "2 man in cockpit at all times" policy.
Why did no one in the plane try to communicate with the outer world? By cellphone or something. This should have been possible in the 10 minute descent. Did the passengers even know there was a problem in the cockpit? The crew probably tried to delay talking to the passengers as long as possible to not create a panic.
There was a french military jet in the air. The military knew there was no signs of communication from the plane. There could have been a real hard decision whether to shoot the plane or not? In what kind of situation is a french jet allowed to shoot a public plane?
Too bad the data recorder seems to be destroyed. This could be a case that is never fully explained without the data recorder.
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On March 26 2015 04:14 Rob-Zero wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 00:57 sharkie wrote:On March 25 2015 22:42 Rob-Zero wrote:I´m from Haltern, too...actually my cousin was in that plane (she was one of the pupils). It´s just so sad...such young lives wasted, they had still so much things to experience.. R.I.P all those good lives on that plane. I just hope they did not suffer too much pain or agony... oh my god.... I am so sad for you, cant imagine how much you are suffering now Thanks a lot guys..
I am really sorry to hear :/
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It must not be suicide, it's not confirmed yet if the door was intentionally locked from inside or just malfunctioned with an incapacitated pilot remaining inside.
FDR will tell wich switch was pushed at what time.
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On March 26 2015 17:40 plgElwood wrote: It must not be suicide, it's not confirmed yet if the door was intentionally locked from inside or just malfunctioned with an incapacitated pilot remaining inside.
FDR will tell wich switch was pushed at what time.
Of course it is just speculation with the info that is leaked by now but tell me another plausible scenario without suicide or murder act by one of the pilots.
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On March 26 2015 17:40 plgElwood wrote: It must not be suicide, it's not confirmed yet if the door was intentionally locked from inside or just malfunctioned with an incapacitated pilot remaining inside.
FDR will tell wich switch was pushed at what time. If the autopilot is engaged, the plane does not go down until it runs out of fuel. During Helios Airways Flight 522, the whole crew and most of the passengers were unconscious for quite some time before the plane crashed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
edit: I see you already pointed that out in an earlier post. Still, this seems all wrong. The pressure sensor readouts might tell us more, if they ever come to light..
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Could be the depressurization of cabin, or infarct (other health issue) of the pilot (if he was alone in the cabin). I don't think it was suicide. Those people had a history of flights and they had a good conversation before one pilot left the cabin. Don't think a man who wants to suicide can have a nice conversation before doing it.
The question though is how many pilots where in the plane? If three, where was the third? Was at the time when descent started only one pilot in the cabin?
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With the Helios flight crew misjudged ALL warning signs for cabin decompression, and the system status was overlooked three times by the crew, since engineers sadly set it to 'manual' on ground level, but on pre-flight check both pilots missed that it was indeed not set to 'AUTO'.
It stayed on cruise speed an hight until the fuel ran out. Crew gets mobile oxygen masks+ tanks, passengers can not leave their seat in decompressed cabin, even if the oxygen masks were deployed correctly. Conscious time at 38000 feet is about 6-8 secs without Oxygen supply.
I agree all signs do indicate a intentional crash of remaining pilot, or someone who got into the cockpit after the other pilot left. If the scenario of one pilot leaving, not beeing able to reenter the cockpit holds true. There is only one source for that.
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On March 26 2015 18:06 arbiter_md wrote: Could be the depressurization of cabin, or infarct (other health issue) of the pilot (if he was alone in the cabin). I don't think it was suicide. Those people had a history of flights and they had a good conversation before one pilot left the cabin. Don't think a man who wants to suicide can have a nice conversation before doing it.
The question though is how many pilots where in the plane? If three, where was the third? Was at the time when descent started only one pilot in the cabin?
Read up on those lock mechanisms. The door can be unlocked from outside by a code BUT there is a timeframe inside the cockpit that allows the person inside to "override" the unlock from outside. So If there was a health issue with the pilot inside while the other was away the door can be unlocked.
Keep in mind that there was still the (probably) autopiloted descent. This does not happen by accident.
Another scenario could be depressurization while the other pilot is away peeing. Pilot inside is already unconscious and pilot outside tries to get inside in panic without entering the code. Eventually everyone is unconscious and autopilot starts standard descent to get into safe heights.
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Zurich15290 Posts
On March 26 2015 18:11 plgElwood wrote: I agree all signs do indicate a intentional crash of remaining pilot, or someone who got into the cockpit after the other pilot left. If the scenario of one pilot leaving, not beeing able to reenter the cockpit holds true. There is only one source for that. Seriously at this point this is simply speculation and as likely as any other explanation. I would really like it if people waited for more information to come in before they concluded a professional got so deranged he suicided a plane with 150 people on board for no reason at all and without saying a word to anyone.
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On March 26 2015 18:21 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 18:11 plgElwood wrote: I agree all signs do indicate a intentional crash of remaining pilot, or someone who got into the cockpit after the other pilot left. If the scenario of one pilot leaving, not beeing able to reenter the cockpit holds true. There is only one source for that. Seriously at this point this is simply speculation and as likely as any other explanation. I would really like it if people waited for more information to come in before they concluded a professional got so deranged he suicided a plane with 150 people on board for no reason at all and without saying a word to anyone.
We are just some dudes with tinfoil hats that speculate in a gaming forum. Its not like we are some kind of official that has to wait to release information until it is 100% clear.
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On March 26 2015 18:11 plgElwood wrote: With the Helios flight crew misjudged ALL warning signs for cabin decompression, and the system status was overlooked three times by the crew, since engineers sadly set it to 'manual' on ground level, but on pre-flight check both pilots missed that it was indeed not set to 'AUTO'.
It stayed on cruise speed an hight until the fuel ran out. Crew gets mobile oxygen masks+ tanks, passengers can not leave their seat in decompressed cabin, even if the oxygen masks were deployed correctly. Conscious time at 38000 feet is about 6-8 secs without Oxygen supply.
I agree all signs do indicate a intentional crash of remaining pilot, or someone who got into the cockpit after the other pilot left. If the scenario of one pilot leaving, not beeing able to reenter the cockpit holds true. There is only one source for that. The NYT isn't exactly any source. There would be a major outcry if the information wasn't correct.
At least it explains why the authorities didn't want the voice recorder information published, it only leads to hefty speculations.
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Again, just speculations. Until now not even the "one pilot left" scenario has been confirmed. Since the data on the CVR can be damaged and lead to wron assumption (Noise or Silence both from damaged data)
- A Lufthansa pilot lost consciousness yesterday on another flight
So maybe the Pilot in the cockpit starts losing consciousness, panics, lowers the altitude set in the auto pilot because he believes it's cabin decompression and then collapses on the door switch, toggles it to "LOCK". Or the security mechanism on this particular plane malfunctioned, or was designed another way.
The fastest and easiest explaination still would sadly be intent by one pilot or another person that locked himself in the cockpit, but of course you can find other explanations.
With the hellios flight all crew and ground personal missed the same detail on the same day, and after that ignored other warning sings.
Edit:
On March 26 2015 18:21 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 18:11 plgElwood wrote: I agree all signs do indicate a intentional crash of remaining pilot, or someone who got into the cockpit after the other pilot left. If the scenario of one pilot leaving, not beeing able to reenter the cockpit holds true. There is only one source for that. Seriously at this point this is simply speculation and as likely as any other explanation. I would really like it if people waited for more information to come in before they concluded a professional got so deranged he suicided a plane with 150 people on board for no reason at all and without saying a word to anyone.
Yes I agree, only NYT as source so far. But matches the outcome and what some people thought already
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You really have to come up with a pretty contrived explanation to get around the door switch thing.
The anonymous source that leaked all this said that the pilot outside began knocking softly and eventually ended up trying to break the door down. All of that was audible on the recorder, so it's not "silence" due to a recorder malfunction, nor is it rapid depressurization where everyone passes out before they can do anything.
Occam's razor suggests intentionality on the part of the pilot in the cabin.
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