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On January 22 2015 09:48 DPK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:45 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. So this is the reason people still tolerate P2W. "it could be worse". I don't tolerate it at all. It's just people are blind and they see P2W when it fits them. 10 years ago, that's what P2W was. In shooters, MMO, F2P games etc. Now, people mistake P2W and pay to save time and they see pay to save time as P2W because well, they need to find a reason to bash something that they don't understand.
Time is power.In everything, not just in games.
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On January 22 2015 09:51 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:48 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:45 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. So this is the reason people still tolerate P2W. "it could be worse". I don't tolerate it at all. It's just people are blind and they see P2W when it fits them. 10 years ago, that's what P2W was. In shooters, MMO, F2P games etc. Now, people mistake P2W and pay to save time and they see pay to save time as P2W because well, they need to find a reason to bash something that they don't understand. Time is power.In everything, not just in games.
So? I fail to see your point. Just because you save time by buying something doesn't mean you're winning more than someone who didn't pay. Look at H1Z1, I bet you think the airdrops are P2W right? Well I can assure you that by not spending a dime, I can come to your airdrop, kill you, take your stuff and get out. Who end up winning and who ended up paying? Exactly.
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On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it.
What the actual fuck. This is so wrong on so many levels that i am actually speachless.
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Im not convinced of the entire pay for alpha/beta acess bullshit. It works for minecraft since you can be very creative in that game but in dayz it doesnt work for me because at some point you realize that the game will always be clunky and it takes years to get simple updates. Not very motivated to buy into an alpha ever again. Lots of regular titles are buggy at release too but they usually get fixed within a year. So you can get a finished game at a steam sale.
Also micro transactions suck. I just want to enjoy a game and not think about spending more money to have fun. I dont see how h1z1 could possibly be so much fun that you could tolerate such nonsense.
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I heard about the H1Z1 controversy awhile ago and came to this thread but no one was posting. Glad to see the drama finally happening
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On January 22 2015 10:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote: Im not convinced of the entire pay for alpha/beta acess bullshit. It works for minecraft since you can be very creative in that game but in dayz it doesnt work for me because at some point you realize that the game will always be clunky and it takes years to get simple updates. Not very motivated to buy into an alpha ever again. Lots of regular titles are buggy at release too but they usually get fixed within a year. So you can get a finished game at a steam sale.
Also micro transactions suck. I just want to enjoy a game and not think about spending more money to have fun. I dont see how h1z1 could possibly be so much fun that you could tolerate such nonsense.
Yeah I kinda regret buying the alpha for dayz which is weird since the arma 3 early access was quite well done by BI.
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On January 22 2015 09:59 Narw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. What the actual fuck. This is so wrong on so many levels that i am actually speachless.
Glad you took part in our conversation. It was really helpful. I guess like many others, you've never experienced a real P2W game.
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Long time ago i did play Lineage 2 on private server where you could get items for cash (you could get same items like em in game, if you did spend shitton of time and had tons of luck). I did beat those guys, it just took better organization and target calling on TS. I knew it's p2w i just didn't cared. If you think buying a better gun with cash (the example you gave) isn't pay to win, couse if you are better you can still beat your opponent then i don't exactly have anything to discuss with, couse my understanding of a term is completly different than yours.
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I disagree with all of you. A pay to win game is *the exact definition i need it have to make the point i want to make*
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Whatever, pointless to continue this conversation on P2W since obviously, no one here ever played one and everyone will try to bring up his own definition even if it doesn't make sense from a logic point of view.
Now more on topic, anyone tried H1Z1 with a really old rig? I'm asking because my rig is pretty old and I was wondering if the game could run on my PC. According to systemrequirementslab.com, I should with minimal settings but I would like know if anyone experienced the game with an old rig. I have a core2quad q9450 2.66GHZ, GTX 550Ti and 4 gig of ram.
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On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model.
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the way loot spawns work make very little sense to me as of yet. spent a couple hours on one server not able to find anything more dangerous than a wood axe, log on another out of boredom, walk into apartments in pleasant valley and find:
4 AR-15s 4 M1911s 1 .308 rifle 22 shotgun shells 15+ combat knives and machetes
it kind of goes beyond the concept of an area being looted out and into the question of, well, does loot just simply stop spawning on some servers for extended periods of time? there's more loot in this server's town than an entire server could make off with.
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On January 22 2015 11:07 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model.
I think that is a problem with the notion of pay2win and perceived definition. When it it too restrictive of a definition, it poses the problem of letting video games get away with rather Bs business models. Yes it is true, having a view or definition that is somewhat gray can mean the term ends up being twisted and misused simply to attack a game.
I personally am not a fan of the idea of the crate as a purchasable item. It is like they had this good idea of making it potentially a Hunger Games scenario but doing so in such a way that just makes them money. Having air drops and those act as bait is fine as a concept. But the throwing money at it is rather ridiculous. I was planning on getting the Alpha but once I heard the new (which has been around for some time now), I decided not to. Plus, I have a feeling this game is going to have a short shelf life.
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On January 22 2015 11:07 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model. He can. Because he is entilted by his majestiy the canadian queen to do so. And he is omnipresent and allknowing. So back under your rock for your false facts and wrong definitions.
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On January 22 2015 11:07 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model. I was wondering, do you consider LoL to be pay to win? Because you can buy runes with real money that obviously give you an advantage over someone who doesnt have them and it takes a really long time for you to grind out the game currency it takes to buy them (at least it does for me, I still havent got a full rune page and I am level 27 in that game).
I dont consider LoL pay to win and by your definition it should be.
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On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay.
if it takes you 12 months of 5 hours a day to gather the materials to craft something I paid $10 for and had access to on day one, you're saying that is not by your definition a pay to win model? you're a moron.
On January 22 2015 18:35 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 11:07 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model. I was wondering, do you consider LoL to be pay to win? Because you can buy runes with real money that obviously give you an advantage over someone who doesnt have them and it takes a really long time for you to grind out the game currency it takes to buy them (at least it does for me, I still havent got a full rune page and I am level 27 in that game). I dont consider LoL pay to win and by your definition it should be.
you can't buy runes with RP. just stop.
any time you pay money to the developer of a game and in return receive anything at all that affects the outcome of the game in any way, you have entered pay to win territory. you can argue about where in the spectrum your game currently is, and how tolerable that is to some people, but you're absolutely now playing a pay to win game.
it doesn't matter if you can do it legit for free, if you paid money to skip a grind, or advance in the agme, or unlock additional content that requires time, energy, etc. you are now playing a pay to win game. period. end of story. there is no other definition, you're a moron.
'But I played this other game that was way more hardcore P2W than this game is"
stop, you're a moron.
'But after 1500 hours, i'll totally have unlocked everything that other guy had on day one'
stop, you're a moron.
'But if you were just better at the game, and had more skill, you could overcome the disadvantage of..."
stop. just stop.
User was warned for this post
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Pay to Win is getting an edge with something, anything, that cannot be achieved through normal means in the game. That means in the case of H1Z1, if a paid airdrop would drop anything that cannot be achieved through not paying, it is pay to win.
Ofcourse someone can still win from a person that is stronger, but the odds are lower. H1Z1 has the unique ability to steal your opponents stuff, the case still applies that the person was only able to achieve this stuff because someone paid for it.
In H1Z1 the containers contain nothing unique, everything can be had through normal means. Instead of money, you invest time. The same result can be achieved. Therefore the game is not pay to win.
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Damn I didn't think the TL thread would be this same bullshit for so long. Do you really need to debate semantics about the airdrops? Yes it sucks that they said there would be no way to pay to get weapons, which there kind of is now, but does it break the game? Certainly not, and it's the best way they would have introduced loot drops in my opinion as it creates PvP events. Now if you don't like it, don't buy the game, or get it refunded as they offered no-question refunds.
he way loot spawns work make very little sense to me as of yet. spent a couple hours on one server not able to find anything more dangerous than a wood axe, log on another out of boredom, walk into apartments in pleasant valley and find:
4 AR-15s 4 M1911s 1 .308 rifle 22 shotgun shells 15+ combat knives and machetes
That kind of sucks. I hope they'll end up introducing some kind of "progression" like there was in DayZ mod, like you spawn in a more or less empty area, closer to you are towns with civilian loot and light weaponry, and then further are military bases with heavy weaponry. I always really liked this, you always had a clear objective and didn't have to blindly loot tons of shit to end up looting an assault rifle in a school.
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On January 22 2015 20:09 ItsFunToLose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. if it takes you 12 months of 5 hours a day to gather the materials to craft something I paid $10 for and had access to on day one, you're saying that is not by your definition a pay to win model? you're a moron. Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 18:35 NukeD wrote:On January 22 2015 11:07 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model. I was wondering, do you consider LoL to be pay to win? Because you can buy runes with real money that obviously give you an advantage over someone who doesnt have them and it takes a really long time for you to grind out the game currency it takes to buy them (at least it does for me, I still havent got a full rune page and I am level 27 in that game). I dont consider LoL pay to win and by your definition it should be. you can't buy runes with RP. just stop. but you can buy IP boosts with real money. what about that?
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On January 22 2015 20:25 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2015 20:09 ItsFunToLose wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. if it takes you 12 months of 5 hours a day to gather the materials to craft something I paid $10 for and had access to on day one, you're saying that is not by your definition a pay to win model? you're a moron. On January 22 2015 18:35 NukeD wrote:On January 22 2015 11:07 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:42 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 09:16 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 08:30 TMG26 wrote:On January 22 2015 08:09 DPK wrote:On January 22 2015 01:35 ZasZ. wrote: You can narrowly define p2w however you want, but the basic definition is paying real-life money for power. Nope that's not what P2W is, P2W is paying for power that can't be acquired by just playing the game. That's the real definition of P2W. That is your definition of P2W. Nope that's what P2W really is. Anyone who says otherwise never experienced a real P2W game in their life, I'm 100% positive of this. Any other definition of P2W doesn't make sense. How can a game be considered P2W when I can just play and also win? Just because you paid for something doesn't automatically mean you're "winning" more than me. Sure it took you less time to get it but it doesn't make you win more. It's pay to save time, not P2W. In a P2W game, you don't have the choice to pay if you want to win/stay competitive. The cash shop will usually sell stuff that can't be acquired while playing and it's better than everything you can get while playing. That's what a REAL P2W game is. Every other definition isn't P2W since I can also win even if I don't pay. No. Scenario: Me and a friend start to play a game, we go into a vs match and he goes with a better gun that he got with $$, i could farm in game currency for it, but i did not have the time. We played the same amount of time, he has a better gun because he spent dollars, giving him a edge. You might call that situation small P2W, but it is still P2W. After all he did just that, he paid to win. It's not P2W. You can still beat him even if he has a slightly better gun than you. In a real P2W game, the scenario would be, he paid, you didn't, you get kill every single time because the gun he paid for as a aimbot/wallhack to it. Nway, think whatever you want, but you clearly never played a real P2W game and you don't know what it is. If you can pay to get an advantage, it is pay to win. You can´t sugar coat it, with "Well, you can still lose". Yes, there are different shades, to the worst where you can´t win, unless you pay, what you refer to as "real P2W". It is still paying for an advantage, thus P2W, as opposed to cosmetiques only, as a business model. I was wondering, do you consider LoL to be pay to win? Because you can buy runes with real money that obviously give you an advantage over someone who doesnt have them and it takes a really long time for you to grind out the game currency it takes to buy them (at least it does for me, I still havent got a full rune page and I am level 27 in that game). I dont consider LoL pay to win and by your definition it should be. you can't buy runes with RP. just stop. but you can buy IP boosts with real money. what about that?
If you're level 27 and still don't have flat armor yellows and flat MR blues, you have ADHD. especially now that it takes forever to hit 30, and they reduced to cost of lower tier runes.
play champions on free week until you find something you'd enjoy sticking with for more than 2 games and you won't have IP problems.
unless you're smurfing, you're playing against others who also don't have optimal runes/masteries.
its not like LOL offers a 10th rune slot (red blue yellow)for 99 cents, and a 4th quint for 1.99, or for 3.99 unlock all 4 new slots.
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