EPTIn most of the PvZ's of him I've seen he likes a fast cyb core build like 90% of the time vs zerg... he then usually makes stargate but only a single corsair out of it, and a citadel, and from there it all depends on what the corsair sees as to what the next move is, but I do like the idea of fast tech 1 gate most of the time vs zerg..... as opposed to 2 gate zealots.
PvZ - fast tech build variations.
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
In most of the PvZ's of him I've seen he likes a fast cyb core build like 90% of the time vs zerg... he then usually makes stargate but only a single corsair out of it, and a citadel, and from there it all depends on what the corsair sees as to what the next move is, but I do like the idea of fast tech 1 gate most of the time vs zerg..... as opposed to 2 gate zealots. | ||
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
I'm not sure which NonY FPVods you've been watching but generally he either two gates or fast expands. If you are looking to use a strategy that will give you a higher win percentage and set you up better for the late game pick up the FE. I, personally, only use 1 gate tech to catch the Zerg offguard. It isn't rare to see me do a one gate tech build and get a fast archon and move out with a few speed lots + an archon. But keep in mind, that isn't a solid build(economy wise), that just gives you an edge if the Zerg doesn't know it's coming. You can use the history of Dreiven vs Mondragon to support this. When Dreiven played Mondragon in TSL he caught him offguard with his strange tech builds. But when they met again Mondragon was ready for Dreivens play and countered it perfectly(I forgot what tournament this was..). Anyways 1 gate tech generally just helps you get a safe expansion though DT/Sair which you could already get just fast expanding... So basically what I've been trying to get to through all this rambling is simply FE if you're looking to improve your PvZ. | ||
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
Nony playing a PvZ... calling the exact build I'm talking about his "standard build". | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On the other hand, with FE many variations in timing and tech are viable, making it the most adaptable opening. One of FE's options is covered thoroughly in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84601 If you follow recent games in Korea, you'll see a small sair/reaver harass to buy time to macro up a large mixed army is also being used often. 1 gate tech builds are still being played on Neo Requiem, but that map is being dropped. The bottom line is that FE is P's most robust platform vsZ and you should learn it. I'm sure NonY's practicing it like mad too. EDIT: On your concern about Zergs breaking your FE... it happens but it's definitely not the certainty you fear. Basically P gets a good simcity going ala http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=62652 , and with probe micro he doesn't have much to fear from a direct 3 hatch ling all-in, especially if he keeps his scout probe alive. If his wall isn't optimal for the map, or if he is cocky and doesn't prepare for ling runby after scouting gas, P can still get screwed over, but it's by no means definite. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On January 14 2009 04:14 JoeSaddles wrote: I'm sorry but on ANY map if the zerg knows you're gonna fast expand and wants to stop it he can easily do so. Especially if he knows you're gonna do it every game.... it could be stopped with simply lots of early lings and constant scouting on your expansion site. man sorry but you are outdated! the lots of early lings can be held off with using proper scouting + pulling probes from your expansion to defend. Even 4 pool can be stopped using 8 pylon 10 forge at your natural expansion and if you couldn't stop it, you just build a pylon and a cannon at your main and it's like starting the game again but you have a much better starting eco than the zerg. | ||
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Racenilatr
United States2756 Posts
On January 14 2009 04:14 JoeSaddles wrote: I'm sorry but on ANY map if the zerg knows you're gonna fast expand and wants to stop it he can easily do so. Especially if he knows you're gonna do it every game.... it could be stopped with simply lots of early lings and constant scouting on your expansion site. If your talking about a fast expansion AFTER you do a 1 or 2 gate build then disregard this + Show Spoiler + Srsly? I really hope that you are talking about a fast expand and not actually talking about the bisu build fast expand. Otherwise, if you try to send "early lings" that will only be from a 5 pool or something. | ||
Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On January 14 2009 04:14 JoeSaddles wrote: I'm sorry but on ANY map if the zerg knows you're gonna fast expand and wants to stop it he can easily do so. Especially if he knows you're gonna do it every game.... it could be stopped with simply lots of early lings and constant scouting on your expansion site. I appreciate that you've been gone for awhile, but this simply is not true. I don't even understand what you're asking in this thread, so it's not really appropriate for the strategy forum. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36388 Posts
On January 14 2009 04:15 JoeSaddles wrote: Unless maybe there are maps now with ramps protecting your natural? Until there are it's not going to be easy to just fast expand every game vs GOOD zergs... hehe not been around for a while have you someone bisu this guy quick | ||
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