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Consistent vs Champion

Forum Index > BW General
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Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 05:16:28
January 22 2007 04:55 GMT
#1
A recent debate about Pro's and their achievements has led to me making this thread about the implications of greatness and how achievement is measured:

By "which would you rather have" i mean "which would you think is a bigger accomplishment" rather than which would you personally rather have.

[image loading]

Poll: Which would you rather have?
(Vote): 1 OSL win, 2 OSL group stage losses
(Vote): 3 OSL third places

Which career would you rather have?

This is simplified, I didn't have time to compile a list of achievements, so for the purpose of these polls go with whats stated:

[image loading]

Poll: Which Zerg career?
(Vote): Like July: 2 OSL win, lots of OSLs
(Vote): Like Yellow: MANY OSL 2nd place, lots of OSLs

[image loading]

Poll: Which Terran Career?
(Vote): Like Casy: 1 OSL win, a few of OSLs
(Vote): Like Midas: Many OSL semis, lots of OSLs

[image loading]

Poll: Trade 1 OSL Win For...
(Vote): 2 Second Places
(Vote): 3 Second Places
(Vote): 5 Second Places
(Vote): 10 Second Places
(Vote): 50 Second Places
(Vote): Every Second Place Imaginable
(Vote): Never


Thanks for your replies and hopefully this will create some good discussion.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Konni
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany3044 Posts
January 22 2007 04:58 GMT
#2
1 win over 1000 participations
polarwolf
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
924 Posts
January 22 2007 05:01 GMT
#3
I agree. People remember champions, not runner-ups.

So one title > 10 second places, imo.
QuietIdiot
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
7004 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 05:08:14
January 22 2007 05:04 GMT
#4
None for toss eh?

well fuck you.

Anytime's journey to win his osl championship and his 2nd place finish is probably the most memorable line of series to me.

Boxer's set of games in which he rose to get his first 2 osl titles, not as memorable, just the finals he participated in were.

Casy is equivalent to sync in terms of recognition.(so many similiarites, shitty tvp ftw??) That final was hardly memorable, except the first game in which chojja won, now that was craazy.
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
January 22 2007 05:05 GMT
#5
You simplify too much, Midas for example was in semis ONCE, how can you make many out of once?

I might as well base my argument on the non-simplified facts. YellOw didn't have many OSL 2nd places, he only got two, plus a couple of third places. YellOw ain't shit compared to July, even if you take account that he personally was maybe the best current Zerg at a certain time he wasn't as good compared to others as July in his prime. July also won a KT KTF Premiere League, so that's 3 Major titles against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd places, not contest at all in my books.

Picking between YellOw's and July's career is easy, July 100%. Between Midas and Casy not as easy, hrm
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
REAl4eVeR
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany187 Posts
January 22 2007 05:06 GMT
#6
Midas 4 the win! :D
Today is a good day to die......
Red_Dragon
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Croatia2862 Posts
January 22 2007 05:07 GMT
#7
I would rather be first once in osl, that three times third place. Winning it all is what it matters to me, and I guess you gain more respect. However I do respect players who are consistent, and they will someday win something (Midas, GF).



Climbing walls of an endless circle
TopGear
Profile Joined November 2005
United Kingdom796 Posts
January 22 2007 05:09 GMT
#8
No one wants to be known as "consistent". Consistently a winner, yes. But not in the way you are describing.

No one remembers the consistent people, only the champions.
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 05:11:29
January 22 2007 05:10 GMT
#9
On January 22 2007 14:07 Red_Dragon wrote:
I would rather be first once in osl, that three times third place. Winning it all is what it matters to me, and I guess you gain more respect. However I do respect players who are consistent, and they will someday win something (Midas, GF).
GF won't win anything. Ever.

Midas will however
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9377 Posts
January 22 2007 05:11 GMT
#10
Midas didn't got his fame due to "wining" -_-;

He is also known for not having the guts to win a full major tournament, although he is consistent.
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
January 22 2007 05:11 GMT
#11
yeah, wins count more i would say. like goodfriend. participations 91241024 times...and nobody on TL seems to like him either, and now that hes sorta shitty tvt ppl here hate him even more- _- you guys are so mean to him ahha.

but as for midas vs casy...i'd go for midas cuz hes liek so fucking good now at all matchupO_O
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
January 22 2007 05:13 GMT
#12
sorry for the misunderstanding but the careers are "LIKE MIDAS"

so similar but not exact, so please don't turn this into MIDAS VS CASY or JULY VS YELLOW etc

sorry i didn't know exactly how many semis midas has been in, i thought he was in at least 2

so yeah, please treat the questions that way rather than take them as player X vs player Y
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
January 22 2007 05:14 GMT
#13
another question i should put up is... how many 2nds would equal one win?

ill do that now
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Red_Dragon
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Croatia2862 Posts
January 22 2007 05:15 GMT
#14
On January 22 2007 14:10 Carnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2007 14:07 Red_Dragon wrote:
I would rather be first once in osl, that three times third place. Winning it all is what it matters to me, and I guess you gain more respect. However I do respect players who are consistent, and they will someday win something (Midas, GF).
GF won't win anything. Ever.

Midas will however


Oh come on even ChoJJa won something, GF can do it IF he pulls his shit together :D
Climbing walls of an endless circle
PoP
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
France15446 Posts
January 22 2007 05:20 GMT
#15
On January 22 2007 14:05 Carnac wrote:
You simplify too much, Midas for example was in semis ONCE, how can you make many out of once?


Twice actually, but your point still stands. I think he was just using him as a random example though.

As for my own opinion, of course I'd rather be champion than consistent, yet I have more respect for someone staying on top for years without actually winning anything than for a player who gets lucky once, wins a big tourney and then disappears completely (hint: Sync -- even though he totally deserved his one OSL).
Administrator
Red_Dragon
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Croatia2862 Posts
January 22 2007 05:21 GMT
#16
On January 22 2007 14:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
another question i should put up is... how many 2nds would equal one win?

ill do that now


It might be stupid, but I would say none for me. There is really something special to be the best, to reach the top and the first place. Being second, you always know some was better than you ONE MORE TIME.
+ You get a trophy, and your name is written on champions list. Your picture is added in hall of fame (MSL). I wouldn`t trade that for nothing. Even if I was first only once. Being second 10x would still be great achievement.
Climbing walls of an endless circle
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 05:22:16
January 22 2007 05:21 GMT
#17
ohhh shit sync.. i shouldve used him instead of casy

edit: and red_dragon, i voted none too =)
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
January 22 2007 05:27 GMT
#18
The victory is most important. There are so many athletes with great careers that sorrow over never winning a ring. Karl Malone, Dan Marino, Dominique Wilkins,, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Chris Carter, Gary Payton, etc.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
January 22 2007 05:27 GMT
#19
yeah midas was in one OSL Semi and one MSL semi right? oh ok hotbid i get what you mean now...
hopefully casy will not become another sync lol

and as for yellow hes died out too much and a player like july with 2 big osl achievements and more consistency would be 'more achieving' imho
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
January 22 2007 05:28 GMT
#20
On January 22 2007 14:20 PoP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2007 14:05 Carnac wrote:
You simplify too much, Midas for example was in semis ONCE, how can you make many out of once?


Twice actually, but your point still stands. I think he was just using him as a random example though.

As for my own opinion, of course I'd rather be champion than consistent, yet I have more respect for someone staying on top for years without actually winning anything than for a player who gets lucky once, wins a big tourney and then disappears completely (hint: Sync -- even though he totally deserved his one OSL).
Oh, my bad: I was looking at Benny's list in the article section and didn't realize it missed the last OSL and since I was inactive towards BW at the time I missed that one.

Anyway, being a champion is what it's mostly about
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