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"There will be a universal silent resolution period of 30 minutes for night actions."What does that mean?
Using my edit rights before they are removed :x
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On June 17 2015 07:07 LightningStrike wrote:Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Onegu's chickens were stolen. We still didn't find them. Do you know where they are?
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Close to 40 pages. I'm at work. Expect something from me in roughly 6 hours.
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I really like Kelsier thus far, I skimmed through his filter. His red/green post caught my attention. He's been musclin' his ways through the conversation, not afraid of verbal elbows and stuff, gives decent and reasonable reads.
I saw his vote on BM and checked why, it's because HF wants to test a theory? Please explain that I don't really know what's going on.
That brought me to HF's filter.
I don't like this post. Saying "look I'm following my meta" means to me that he's aware of his meta, thus able to change it. I liked the post about the two ways of how to play around meta, this one:
On June 17 2015 08:29 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 08:25 KelsierSC wrote:On June 17 2015 08:21 Damdred wrote:On June 17 2015 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:On June 17 2015 08:09 LightningStrike wrote:On June 17 2015 08:08 NydusHerMain wrote:
I don't think LS is being that towny o.O. Am I crazy? I'm not saying he's not town but how do people have a "probs town" or "hard town" read on him already. Because they know my meta? Check the database lpus Witchcraft III for my meta if you want any  seriously can you shut the fuck up already with this shit you have just taken a shit in your hand and thrown whatever came out into the thread. I don't think your town and bringing up all this meta crap so early on is fucking irritating Even if I'm right and your town keep the bm out of thread. Its not needed even if you are annoyed at this point. I'll substantiate later, but I don't believe nhm or ls are capable of posting such as these as scum. Both are somewhat meta based reads. Kel is just a maybe town. I know I'm town obviously I also think gb is a decent shot as town but don't tell him I said that you can explain ls right now actually...what has he posted that makes him town? There's a lot of shit but nothing of real value. There are two types of people that play mafia 1. Players who are capable of changing meta and care 2. Players who only play for one alignment and either refuse or can't change meta LS belongs in group 2, he's already done several of his town tells at this point. Digging up old,meta cases on him to show how people know him. He's sort of jokey, and he's willing to get into,confrontations to a degree. As scum he's lazy, he is serious and skittish. He's town to me at this juncture.
So I'd like the more experienced players in here if HF is a player that is capable of changing his meta and who cares - or not. Especially since this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2015 13:00 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:48 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 17 2015 12:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 12:42 GlowingBear wrote:
It's a shame we have to come to this kind of discussion, really. Maybe you can have good reads and others don't, but your inability to work with people overwhelms any good town trait you may have, bugs. I'm not unwilling to work with you. I just don't want to take your approach because I disagree with it. What exactly do you think is the benefit of putting forth so many reads less than 5 hours into the game? Probably useless because they keep changing every minute. It just looks towny and I feel like GB might be mafia trying to blend into town... Same way I feel about damdred. Is it wrong of me to be scum reading some of the more active posters? I feel like I should be town reading them for being so open with their thoughts. zzzz lots to learn. umm well I would say that one of the things about hunting mafia is that surface-level things can often be red herrings. For example I hesitate to scum read active people too, and I think it is natural because a lot of the time scum don't put in a lot of effort. However it's not quite so clear cut because a lot of scum teams have one or two lurky players and a couple others who blend in or even attempt to lead town. e.g. I know I am not one to back down as scum and I know other players like Ace, BC, etc. who are also pretty active as scum. So here I would not hold activity as a high regard or alignment indicative unless you know a particular player does not care for playing one alignment or another. For example both Onegu and LS favor one alignment over the other; Onegu prefers to play scum and LS prefers to play town, so in the last game I played after I started suspecting LS of being scum when I looked at his past games there were a lot of similarities in effort and read quality between LS's play that game and his previous scum games. What I think is more important than activity but along the same lines is the level of effort someone makes in qualifying or justifying particular stances they take in the game. Scum are unlikely to give specific reasons for the things they say because a lot of the time they are faking. In the cases where they are not faking (e.g. when they make "townreads") sometimes they give themselves away in the way that they will come to a certain conclusion through a thought process that isn't organic or doesn't appear to be grounded in events that occur in the thread. Signs that this is the case can be seen when a scum player responds to a request to elucidate a town read. If you agree that the target is town, see if your reasons match, and if not, try to see if the provided reasons are specific and make sense in the context of the thread. If they are not really backed up by anything or somehow come out of nowhere they are probably scum. So instead of surface level things like aggressiveness, activity, lack of activity, etc. I think it's better if you try to look at motivation. e.g. if I were in X player's perspective and I were town, what would I do? Try to see if what they are actually doing can be explained from one perspective vs another. Certain things can be explained from both perspectives but you can filter those things out and try to identify the things that are indicative one way or another. Often times perspective analysis, at least for me, is easier from a town perspective because there are certain things that mafia "would never do", or at least be very unlikely to do, for example defend a particular player in a situation where doing so would attract a lot of attention.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2015 12:53 rsoultin wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2015 12:29 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:04 Holyflare wrote:
bugs outline your main gripes in concise bullet point format
rsoul answer them in concise bullet point format
1. The responsibility deflection was the first thing that caught my eye-rsoultin's first post in the game in which her comment on LS came off to me like she didn't want to commit too strongly one way or another on LS because doing so would cement her in that position. It's something I find scum do so they can give off the air that they have reads but in reality they are setting themselves up for the possibility of swinging the other way later. Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote:ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town  yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/ lol so angry rit wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude... badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh i like damdy tone, yay! \o/ oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP In this post she comments on several players but none of the reasons are very specific at all. I would be interested in knowing what this apparent metaread on onegu is now but I doubt she'll give anything forth given how hard she fought not to provide any reasons for the damdred read. A lot of these things come across as faked, or they are just surface-level things like the "lol so angry rit" which really doesn't do anything except give us the impression that rsoultin is doing something. there's also this post: Show nested quote +
kk
townreads at present:
fidei
damdy
breshke
gb
ls
in terms of certainty, and no, not all are strong, and no i haven't explained all of those anything else is leans
The bolded to me is very interesting because it shows that she cares about how her reads come off. As a townie you know if you haven't explained something and if you list a read without an explanation you can just explain it when someone asks you. In fact this is a fairly good thing to do and lots of people do it all the time. However here it is as if she is anticipating someone asking her for an explanation and this is her way of shadowing that she will not explain them. What town motivation does a player have for doing that? Finally her responses to me when I tried to get her to elucidate the LS and damdred reads were both literal rehashes of her original post, and that brings me to point #2 2. Despite the amount of times she has posted, she continues to go in circles and doesn't actually progress anywhere. So for example she says this: Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 08:37 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 08:34 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 08:30 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote:-rolls around the thread- hihihihi ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/ lol so angry rit wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude... badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh i like damdy tone, yay! \o/ oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP what does that even mean you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah? so do you actually think he is town or not? oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be ^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^ okay. can you tell me what you like about Dam? he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent lol >< actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^ So here she says she doesn't generally qualify her tonereads because they apparently mean nothing to anyone but her... First of all, if that's true, why would she ever bother putting a toneread in the thread if it doesn't mean anything to anyone but her? That's basically admitting she's only doing it for brownie points. Later, the best part is that she says this: Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:27 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 11:24 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:23 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 11:21 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:15 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 11:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:08 GlowingBear wrote:On June 17 2015 11:06 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:03 rsoultin wrote:
[quote]
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you. however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done. Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players? nope give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no? respeeeeectfully instead of calling you what i normally would do you have the faintest clue who you're even dealing with? do you know how i post? have you read all of my filter/posts? i highly doubt it. you seem intelligent enough to actually understand the meaning behind words, despite your behavior thus far and once you realize how blindingly wrong you are, kindly comment on someone who actually has a chance in hell of being scum ^^ thanks you. I don't need to go further. You don't qualify any of your posts with reasons, so why should I bother? I have read your entire filter despite your pathetic attempts to paint me as not reading. Here's a hint: when you try to fake being angry at someone for not reading, perhaps you should point out exactly what they missed. Too bad there was nothing to miss because my posts were literal quotes of yours. How could I have missed something when there wasn't anything to miss? It's like literally the dumbest cop out ever. I point out how you have not qualified your reads with reasons and the response is literally "nuh uh you're not reading here's my reason" with a quote or paraphrase of the thing I pointed out in the first place. It's like you want us to go in circles instead of progressing anywhere--I wonder which side wants to do that, hmm? can you tell me how my reason was not a reason, wbg? i'm on the edge of my seat a "toneread" is not a reason. it's like saying "I think he is town because he talks like town". What the hell does that even mean did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it? what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum? Let's see that side by side: Show nested quote + i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^ Show nested quote +did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it?
what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum? The best part is that she admits that she doesn't qualify her tonereads because they don't mean anything to anyone except her. This is first of all an excuse in itself for not providing a reason in the first place, and it doesn't make sense because if the read doesn't mean anything to anyone then why post it all? Secondly she goes ahead and does "explain" it which I don't know how you can call it that. It's literally saying "I think he is town because he sounds town." Then later she says "didn't I explain my toneread?" No, she copped out of explaining it. When I demanded an example she just dumped a link to a game instead of actually making any sort of effort to prove that she legitimately believed what she said she did. and then there's this Show nested quote +
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
Which again is a rehash of what she said earlier about me not reading...okay, fine, but as you can see in the post I just quoted, she literally doesn't have any reads! She said herself that she has five townreads, the following people: BUT that everything else is "leans" and not all of these are strong. She also admitted that she didn't explain (at least some) of these reads. Sounds to me like she doesn't have any reads. So how exactly am I failing to read her here? She simply says that to discredit me. Townies don't do that and they don't contradict themselves so blatantly or misrepresent themselves either. good lord i don't feel like dealing with this today -_- fine 1. the LS read - i get him wrong a lot. that i said he was town at all this game toward the beginning was anything BUT a responsibility deflection. i simply gave it the weight it deserved. if i'm not good at reading him, i don't want people taking my read on him as gospel, but it IS the way i'm reading him right now 2. the damdred read - i feel that my toneread on damdred based on the fluidity of his posts is good enough. you do not. enough said. i stand by that read 3. the five townreads - reading my filter you would find that i've given reads on ls/damdred and have not on the other three. i refused to give a reason for fidei. no one bothered to ask about anyone else. i was being facetious since i was already being accused of not having a reason for one of the players that i did have a reason on breshke - we think ridiculously alike when he's town. the fact that he's saying things that already resonate with me plus knows exactly what i'm talking about while being obscure means he is most likely town. breshke is slow to make reads but his posts are especially insightful. i love playing with him gb - he has a tendency of going every which way as town. he knows that he does this (but i doubt he can help himself...and know that he's bad at replicating it as scum) the longer the thread went on, the more difficulty he seemed to have focusing on just one thing. while he can tunnel as town, i've only seen this level of disorganization from town gb ls - the read basically mimics damdy's so i felt no need to repeat it damdy - his style is interesting. he used to not post much and just come in with a case on a scumread late in the day phase, but he got pushed so often for it (and he gets highly frustrated at being scumread as town) so then he started offering weaker reads early. if you actually cared to look at the game i linked, he came in with an immediate scumread on team mate gb in that game, to the exclusion of pretty much all else, and even made the mistake of townreading someone for reaching the same conclusion as him with completely opposite reasoning. and yes, to me his posting seemed very stiff. i was scumreading him most of d1/n1 until i derped like an hour before i was nk'd -_- my reads are because i know the players. meta-wise and tone-wise. it's personal to me, and no, i don't expect everyone else to get it, nor is there a real need to overexplain townreads when they're not getting lynched unless stubborn people keep insisting on it next time ask -_- if it's not repeating myself i'm usually very forthright as for VA...i've seen what he's capable of, but i also know how lazy he can be so i'm hesitant to vote him. he's scummy and being useless with the posts going nowhere and the opportunistic vote on a townie (assuming it made it to the vote thread) however i wouldn't put it past him to just want to lynch me for getting him mislynched last game as scum >> the reasons i don't like hf are in the thread. he says it's a shit metaread, and on the surface perhaps it is. however it is undeniable that a scum hf tends to have very shallow reasons for scumreading people and be less forceful/proactive. there may or may not be another reason i distrust him right now i also feel that ksc's posting is off, but i'm not as familiar with him. if he's not masons with hf, there was absolutely no reason to townread hf at the point where he said he'd just sheep whatever hf did. i don't like that any more than i like his push on ls based on reasons that don't make ls scum
..with a very short, yet not too well thought out answer:
On June 17 2015 12:54 Holyflare wrote:
ok rsoultin thing is basically
tone
weird pushing on needless shit that i do all the time (literally the last 3 games i've played town in)
arguing semantics
fighting bugs on pointless things too
I don't like that.
##vote HolyFlare
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EBWOP: "So I'd like the more experienced players in here if HF is a player that is capable of changing his meta and who cares - or not." - "So I'd like to ASK ..."
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I'm leaving work now, will be home in roughly 2 hours. I'll check on rsoultin later and give a read. Thus far, I did skim through the whole thread but I really need to read deeper and with more time to it.
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On June 18 2015 01:12 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 01:11 boxerfred wrote:
I'm leaving work now, will be home in roughly 2 hours. I'll check on rsoultin later and give a read. Thus far, I did skim through the whole thread but I really need to read deeper and with more time to it. wat
"wat"?
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On June 18 2015 01:14 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 01:09 boxerfred wrote:
EBWOP: "So I'd like the more experienced players in here if HF is a player that is capable of changing his meta and who cares - or not." - "So I'd like to ASK ..." whether i follow or am capable of changing my meta or not is irrelevant because that post is nothing about how i am playing and everything about how rsoul was playing and misrepresenting my play to make some bs scum read on me not sure how you can make that post and not realise that
I think that this is actually really relevant because if you're not the guy to change you're meta, you're most likely town. if I am to trust the meta read that someone (have to recall) made on you. Gonna look into rsoul too when I'm home.
Just don't forget that all I did by now was skimming through the thread, reading Kelsier's and your filter. That's not too much, so my first conclusions won't be too great, eh?
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On June 18 2015 01:14 wherebugsgo wrote:you're lucky you're new, bf 
Explain that.
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So until like 2 hours, bye!
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On June 18 2015 01:25 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 01:17 boxerfred wrote:On June 18 2015 01:14 Holyflare wrote:On June 18 2015 01:09 boxerfred wrote:
EBWOP: "So I'd like the more experienced players in here if HF is a player that is capable of changing his meta and who cares - or not." - "So I'd like to ASK ..." whether i follow or am capable of changing my meta or not is irrelevant because that post is nothing about how i am playing and everything about how rsoul was playing and misrepresenting my play to make some bs scum read on me not sure how you can make that post and not realise that I think that this is actually really relevant because if you're not the guy to change you're meta, you're most likely town. if I am to trust the meta read that someone (have to recall) made on you. Gonna look into rsoul too when I'm home. Just don't forget that all I did by now was skimming through the thread, reading Kelsier's and your filter. That's not too much, so my first conclusions won't be too great, eh? i try and change but always fall into the same spammy nature eventually either way your giant post says: i'm mafia because i am aware of my meta and pointed out someone lying about past games to "fake" a read on me i'm mafia because i posted that after i posted a small reply to a big post you should be coming to the opposite conclusion on the first line since i'm pointing out people doing scummy things - lying (but for some reason you ignore that and say it's scummy i know my meta?) and the second line isn't even true since it comes AFTER i made my vote and wasn't even in response to the big post since it was posted at the exact same time she posted the big onethen you say i could be town if i stick to my meta lol!??! how does knowing my meta relate to your read on me at all? IF i did something the same way 3 games in a row and someone says i didn't do that and i'm scummy for not acting the same way then i can't really comprehend how you could even make your case to begin with it pretty much makes me think you just picked a filter and decided to scum read someone and then forgot about what actually happened in their filter altogether and it's pretty scummy
I'm saying that the fact that you know how your meta appears does make it impossible to let your meta speak for you. Especially if you point that out. My logic might be flawed but I feel like if you yourself know how you appear in town games, it's really easy for you to make the same appearance in a scum game, especially if your meta seemingly consists of joking around and making nonsense day 1. That alone does not make it scummy, yes, but the fact that you point towards your meta as an indicator of your town alignment means that you use your meta to your purpose which does indeed appear scummy to me.
I don't know what line you refer to with the bolded part. The line I quoted came immediately after the huge post I quoted so that's why I took it into context. For me it looked (and looks) like you we answering to this post and I did not like the way you did it at all.
And well, I learned by now that it is easily possible to horribly misread someone so I'm saying that yes, while I interpret your meta mentioning as scummy, it is very well possible that I am wrong and your play up to my post simply says "Yes, I'm town."
All those things are indicators and rather weak points, I followed that up with a vote for two reasons:
a) I only looked into Kelsier and you at this point
b) I wanted to see your reactions to this post.
So off of this reaction, I feel like it's an emotional response. It feels genuine. I like that.
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On June 18 2015 01:35 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 01:07 boxerfred wrote:I really like Kelsier thus far, I skimmed through his filter. His red/green post caught my attention. He's been musclin' his ways through the conversation, not afraid of verbal elbows and stuff, gives decent and reasonable reads. I saw his vote on BM and checked why, it's because HF wants to test a theory? Please explain that I don't really know what's going on. That brought me to HF's filter. I don't like this post. Saying "look I'm following my meta" means to me that he's aware of his meta, thus able to change it. I liked the post about the two ways of how to play around meta, this one: On June 17 2015 08:29 Damdred wrote:On June 17 2015 08:25 KelsierSC wrote:On June 17 2015 08:21 Damdred wrote:On June 17 2015 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:On June 17 2015 08:09 LightningStrike wrote:On June 17 2015 08:08 NydusHerMain wrote:
I don't think LS is being that towny o.O. Am I crazy? I'm not saying he's not town but how do people have a "probs town" or "hard town" read on him already. Because they know my meta? Check the database lpus Witchcraft III for my meta if you want any seriously can you shut the fuck up already with this shit you have just taken a shit in your hand and thrown whatever came out into the thread. I don't think your town and bringing up all this meta crap so early on is fucking irritating Even if I'm right and your town keep the bm out of thread. Its not needed even if you are annoyed at this point. I'll substantiate later, but I don't believe nhm or ls are capable of posting such as these as scum. Both are somewhat meta based reads. Kel is just a maybe town. I know I'm town obviously I also think gb is a decent shot as town but don't tell him I said that you can explain ls right now actually...what has he posted that makes him town? There's a lot of shit but nothing of real value. There are two types of people that play mafia 1. Players who are capable of changing meta and care 2. Players who only play for one alignment and either refuse or can't change meta LS belongs in group 2, he's already done several of his town tells at this point. Digging up old,meta cases on him to show how people know him. He's sort of jokey, and he's willing to get into,confrontations to a degree. As scum he's lazy, he is serious and skittish. He's town to me at this juncture. So I'd like the more experienced players in here if HF is a player that is capable of changing his meta and who cares - or not. Especially since this post: + Show Spoiler +On June 17 2015 13:00 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:48 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 17 2015 12:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 12:42 GlowingBear wrote:
It's a shame we have to come to this kind of discussion, really. Maybe you can have good reads and others don't, but your inability to work with people overwhelms any good town trait you may have, bugs. I'm not unwilling to work with you. I just don't want to take your approach because I disagree with it. What exactly do you think is the benefit of putting forth so many reads less than 5 hours into the game? Probably useless because they keep changing every minute. It just looks towny and I feel like GB might be mafia trying to blend into town... Same way I feel about damdred. Is it wrong of me to be scum reading some of the more active posters? I feel like I should be town reading them for being so open with their thoughts. zzzz lots to learn. umm well I would say that one of the things about hunting mafia is that surface-level things can often be red herrings. For example I hesitate to scum read active people too, and I think it is natural because a lot of the time scum don't put in a lot of effort. However it's not quite so clear cut because a lot of scum teams have one or two lurky players and a couple others who blend in or even attempt to lead town. e.g. I know I am not one to back down as scum and I know other players like Ace, BC, etc. who are also pretty active as scum. So here I would not hold activity as a high regard or alignment indicative unless you know a particular player does not care for playing one alignment or another. For example both Onegu and LS favor one alignment over the other; Onegu prefers to play scum and LS prefers to play town, so in the last game I played after I started suspecting LS of being scum when I looked at his past games there were a lot of similarities in effort and read quality between LS's play that game and his previous scum games. What I think is more important than activity but along the same lines is the level of effort someone makes in qualifying or justifying particular stances they take in the game. Scum are unlikely to give specific reasons for the things they say because a lot of the time they are faking. In the cases where they are not faking (e.g. when they make "townreads") sometimes they give themselves away in the way that they will come to a certain conclusion through a thought process that isn't organic or doesn't appear to be grounded in events that occur in the thread. Signs that this is the case can be seen when a scum player responds to a request to elucidate a town read. If you agree that the target is town, see if your reasons match, and if not, try to see if the provided reasons are specific and make sense in the context of the thread. If they are not really backed up by anything or somehow come out of nowhere they are probably scum. So instead of surface level things like aggressiveness, activity, lack of activity, etc. I think it's better if you try to look at motivation. e.g. if I were in X player's perspective and I were town, what would I do? Try to see if what they are actually doing can be explained from one perspective vs another. Certain things can be explained from both perspectives but you can filter those things out and try to identify the things that are indicative one way or another. Often times perspective analysis, at least for me, is easier from a town perspective because there are certain things that mafia "would never do", or at least be very unlikely to do, for example defend a particular player in a situation where doing so would attract a lot of attention. and especially that part right here: "What I think is more important than activity but along the same lines is the level of effort someone makes in qualifying or justifying particular stances they take in the game." (taken from the spoilered post) make me think how much effort HF actually put in his vote. Especially since not too long before that post, he answered to a rather long thing on him here: + Show Spoiler +On June 17 2015 12:53 rsoultin wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 17 2015 12:29 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:04 Holyflare wrote:
bugs outline your main gripes in concise bullet point format
rsoul answer them in concise bullet point format
1. The responsibility deflection was the first thing that caught my eye-rsoultin's first post in the game in which her comment on LS came off to me like she didn't want to commit too strongly one way or another on LS because doing so would cement her in that position. It's something I find scum do so they can give off the air that they have reads but in reality they are setting themselves up for the possibility of swinging the other way later. Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote:ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/ lol so angry rit wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude... badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh i like damdy tone, yay! \o/ oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP In this post she comments on several players but none of the reasons are very specific at all. I would be interested in knowing what this apparent metaread on onegu is now but I doubt she'll give anything forth given how hard she fought not to provide any reasons for the damdred read. A lot of these things come across as faked, or they are just surface-level things like the "lol so angry rit" which really doesn't do anything except give us the impression that rsoultin is doing something. there's also this post: Show nested quote +
kk
townreads at present:
fidei
damdy
breshke
gb
ls
in terms of certainty, and no, not all are strong, and no i haven't explained all of those anything else is leans
The bolded to me is very interesting because it shows that she cares about how her reads come off. As a townie you know if you haven't explained something and if you list a read without an explanation you can just explain it when someone asks you. In fact this is a fairly good thing to do and lots of people do it all the time. However here it is as if she is anticipating someone asking her for an explanation and this is her way of shadowing that she will not explain them. What town motivation does a player have for doing that? Finally her responses to me when I tried to get her to elucidate the LS and damdred reads were both literal rehashes of her original post, and that brings me to point #2 2. Despite the amount of times she has posted, she continues to go in circles and doesn't actually progress anywhere. So for example she says this: Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 08:37 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 08:34 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 08:30 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote:-rolls around the thread- hihihihi ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/ lol so angry rit wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude... badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh i like damdy tone, yay! \o/ oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP what does that even mean you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah? so do you actually think he is town or not? oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be ^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^ okay. can you tell me what you like about Dam? he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent lol >< actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^ So here she says she doesn't generally qualify her tonereads because they apparently mean nothing to anyone but her... First of all, if that's true, why would she ever bother putting a toneread in the thread if it doesn't mean anything to anyone but her? That's basically admitting she's only doing it for brownie points. Later, the best part is that she says this: Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:27 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 11:24 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:23 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 11:21 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:15 rsoultin wrote:On June 17 2015 11:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:08 GlowingBear wrote:On June 17 2015 11:06 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:03 rsoultin wrote:
[quote]
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you. however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done. Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players? nope give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no? respeeeeectfully instead of calling you what i normally would do you have the faintest clue who you're even dealing with? do you know how i post? have you read all of my filter/posts? i highly doubt it. you seem intelligent enough to actually understand the meaning behind words, despite your behavior thus far and once you realize how blindingly wrong you are, kindly comment on someone who actually has a chance in hell of being scum ^^ thanks you. I don't need to go further. You don't qualify any of your posts with reasons, so why should I bother? I have read your entire filter despite your pathetic attempts to paint me as not reading. Here's a hint: when you try to fake being angry at someone for not reading, perhaps you should point out exactly what they missed. Too bad there was nothing to miss because my posts were literal quotes of yours. How could I have missed something when there wasn't anything to miss? It's like literally the dumbest cop out ever. I point out how you have not qualified your reads with reasons and the response is literally "nuh uh you're not reading here's my reason" with a quote or paraphrase of the thing I pointed out in the first place. It's like you want us to go in circles instead of progressing anywhere--I wonder which side wants to do that, hmm? can you tell me how my reason was not a reason, wbg? i'm on the edge of my seat a "toneread" is not a reason. it's like saying "I think he is town because he talks like town". What the hell does that even mean did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it? what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum? Let's see that side by side: Show nested quote + i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^ Show nested quote +did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it?
what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum? The best part is that she admits that she doesn't qualify her tonereads because they don't mean anything to anyone except her. This is first of all an excuse in itself for not providing a reason in the first place, and it doesn't make sense because if the read doesn't mean anything to anyone then why post it all? Secondly she goes ahead and does "explain" it which I don't know how you can call it that. It's literally saying "I think he is town because he sounds town." Then later she says "didn't I explain my toneread?" No, she copped out of explaining it. When I demanded an example she just dumped a link to a game instead of actually making any sort of effort to prove that she legitimately believed what she said she did. and then there's this Show nested quote +
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
Which again is a rehash of what she said earlier about me not reading...okay, fine, but as you can see in the post I just quoted, she literally doesn't have any reads! She said herself that she has five townreads, the following people: BUT that everything else is "leans" and not all of these are strong. She also admitted that she didn't explain (at least some) of these reads. Sounds to me like she doesn't have any reads. So how exactly am I failing to read her here? She simply says that to discredit me. Townies don't do that and they don't contradict themselves so blatantly or misrepresent themselves either. good lord i don't feel like dealing with this today -_- fine 1. the LS read - i get him wrong a lot. that i said he was town at all this game toward the beginning was anything BUT a responsibility deflection. i simply gave it the weight it deserved. if i'm not good at reading him, i don't want people taking my read on him as gospel, but it IS the way i'm reading him right now 2. the damdred read - i feel that my toneread on damdred based on the fluidity of his posts is good enough. you do not. enough said. i stand by that read 3. the five townreads - reading my filter you would find that i've given reads on ls/damdred and have not on the other three. i refused to give a reason for fidei. no one bothered to ask about anyone else. i was being facetious since i was already being accused of not having a reason for one of the players that i did have a reason on breshke - we think ridiculously alike when he's town. the fact that he's saying things that already resonate with me plus knows exactly what i'm talking about while being obscure means he is most likely town. breshke is slow to make reads but his posts are especially insightful. i love playing with him gb - he has a tendency of going every which way as town. he knows that he does this (but i doubt he can help himself...and know that he's bad at replicating it as scum) the longer the thread went on, the more difficulty he seemed to have focusing on just one thing. while he can tunnel as town, i've only seen this level of disorganization from town gb ls - the read basically mimics damdy's so i felt no need to repeat it damdy - his style is interesting. he used to not post much and just come in with a case on a scumread late in the day phase, but he got pushed so often for it (and he gets highly frustrated at being scumread as town) so then he started offering weaker reads early. if you actually cared to look at the game i linked, he came in with an immediate scumread on team mate gb in that game, to the exclusion of pretty much all else, and even made the mistake of townreading someone for reaching the same conclusion as him with completely opposite reasoning. and yes, to me his posting seemed very stiff. i was scumreading him most of d1/n1 until i derped like an hour before i was nk'd -_- my reads are because i know the players. meta-wise and tone-wise. it's personal to me, and no, i don't expect everyone else to get it, nor is there a real need to overexplain townreads when they're not getting lynched unless stubborn people keep insisting on it next time ask -_- if it's not repeating myself i'm usually very forthright as for VA...i've seen what he's capable of, but i also know how lazy he can be so i'm hesitant to vote him. he's scummy and being useless with the posts going nowhere and the opportunistic vote on a townie (assuming it made it to the vote thread) however i wouldn't put it past him to just want to lynch me for getting him mislynched last game as scum >> the reasons i don't like hf are in the thread. he says it's a shit metaread, and on the surface perhaps it is. however it is undeniable that a scum hf tends to have very shallow reasons for scumreading people and be less forceful/proactive. there may or may not be another reason i distrust him right now i also feel that ksc's posting is off, but i'm not as familiar with him. if he's not masons with hf, there was absolutely no reason to townread hf at the point where he said he'd just sheep whatever hf did. i don't like that any more than i like his push on ls based on reasons that don't make ls scum ..with a very short, yet not too well thought out answer: On June 17 2015 12:54 Holyflare wrote:
ok rsoultin thing is basically
tone
weird pushing on needless shit that i do all the time (literally the last 3 games i've played town in)
arguing semantics
fighting bugs on pointless things too
I don't like that. ##vote HolyFlare Explain what you don't like about holyflare's accusation on RS. I don't, and I don't think anyone should really understand why you think holyflare is your top scum unless you actually substantiate that because for me, all you're saying is "his posts are not alignment indicative despite peoples' meta reads" and "I don't like his accusation he's scum." ???
I didn't like the short reaction at all. It feels like he's trying to smash it down before anyone really invests a second thought into it.
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ok so just a short explanation on why I'm gone: I'm having my oral exam tomorrow and I currently value learning stuff higher than playing. I do have the time to post but I don't want to spend it on that :/ sorry peeps. I'll tell you if I passed or not in another 24 hours.
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I get that you might not like that and if you want to lynch me, do so. however if you have better lynches than me, I'd appreciate if you go for those first.
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On June 19 2015 03:51 LightningStrike wrote:Honestly if Boxer doesn't vote we should lynch someone else because it would useless to vote someone that would get modkilled. The case on to GB is interesting and LOL at the caps lock he did it in GoT which was just quoted and again he did it a little bit in our last game when I was scum with him in Witchcraft. He could be scum based some of this stuff and I trust my townread on Bugs I willing to sheep him for now based on how Witchcraft went. ##Unvote
##Vote: GlowingBear
My vote actually is on someone, you must've missed my post where I say I'm really busy until the next day.
I'm not even lurking currently, I just skimmed through some pages and found your post sticking out so I want to point that out.
Note how it would be way easier for me to not say that.
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Also I stated why I cannot do much. So I'd prefer to have GB lynched since there is an actual case against him, contrary to me.
##unvote ##vote GlowingBear
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I won't be around for EoD, gotta go to sleep, exam is early tomorrow. I really hope you peeps don't lynch innocent people.
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On June 19 2015 06:02 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:59 boxerfred wrote:On June 19 2015 03:51 LightningStrike wrote:On June 19 2015 03:43 KelsierSC wrote:
LS what think you? Honestly if Boxer doesn't vote we should lynch someone else because it would useless to vote someone that would get modkilled. The case on to GB is interesting and LOL at the caps lock he did it in GoT which was just quoted and again he did it a little bit in our last game when I was scum with him in Witchcraft. He could be scum based some of this stuff and I trust my townread on Bugs I willing to sheep him for now based on how Witchcraft went. ##Unvote
##Vote: GlowingBear My vote actually is on someone, you must've missed my post where I say I'm really busy until the next day. I'm not even lurking currently, I just skimmed through some pages and found your post sticking out so I want to point that out. Note how it would be way easier for me to not say that. I didn't catch it all I thought you didn't vote at all I guess I was blind for a little bit but anyways HF isn't going to get lynched today do you mind reading Bugs case on GB on Page 82ish and give me your thoughts on it?
Okay, I'll try. I'll be around 10 more minutes since I actually do not want to get lynched.
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Well I don't like GB's case on Breshke. I feel like Kelsier's points on that case are genuine and since he's a town read of me (well let's see if that read holds when I actually catch up to the thread) that makes them even stronger to me. Can't follow the meta stuff on GB really I guess I just have to trust what bugs says there - the quoted post from GoT mafia is a rather strong indicator though.
I think the weak case on Breshke makes GB look scummy since it comes at a point where he's under pressure.
I think the posting behaviour (caps and emotional stuff) makes him look scummy, too.
Also, he votes me because he's okay with lurkers, doesn't unvote for breshke however although he made a case on him?
Nah guys it's better to lynch him over me.
Regarding this:
On June 19 2015 06:04 Lohengramm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 06:02 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 05:46 Holyflare wrote:I don't feel nearly as good about bf as i do gb On June 19 2015 05:08 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 05:06 ritoky wrote:
okay from HF's thing i remember the vanishing onegu read and the lack of follow-up on VA stuff which was kinda scummy.
any1 gonna try to convince me on BF, or is that just a wagon full of AFKs? ok the thing is about bf is he was a major major point of contention in the last game the entire game and constantly looked scummy so now i'm getting the willies since i think gb is mafia and he was quite fucking happy to just afk on bf with his hipster only first post read and bf has promised he'd play tomorrow so i'm kindddddd of willing to let it slide especially with this mafia gb trying to throw shit in every direction to people scum reading him and then asking loaded questions where he's prepared the worst/most fake answers ever dunno how many times i have to requote this before i get people to unvote bf Yeah but his posting there was quite different than his posting here. Also, here he is coming back to the thread just before deadline to vote to save himself. eehhhhhhhhh
My vote does not save me. I learned that the hard way in my first newbie game. It's tied 6-6, and afaik I'm still supposed to be hanged. Also, I said I have 10 minutes to spend and I just did that. I really want to contribute to this game but I have to read almost a hundred pages (of which I've read like 20? so far and picked some random pages because I was told to (82ish)).
I get the whole "he's afk so kill him" story but you need to consider that I'll be around tomorrow, and the next day, and so on. In my last game, I said before I joined that I have an exam on 19th june so that's not a lie at all. Please consider lynchign someone who actually might be scum over someone who's just afk and can still be lynched the next day. I mean, seriously - you lynch me without having much to read me on, making it what chances exactly? while you seemingly do have at least indicators about GB being scum.
:/ well your choice guys.
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EPT
