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Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-02-16 07:30:11
December 30 2006 08:22 GMT
#1
Update 2-16-2007

At: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=49973
__________________________________________________________________________________________



[image loading]

Maplantis.org, click "Maps" for fast intro & no bla bla.

This is an introduction and review of a new map related StarCraft site.
The Lost Citites of Map Making
: Maplantis.org.

After over 8 years, people are still making new StarCraft related sites. One has to admit that as of late, more StarCraft sites die than are born but on this occasion a bright new star has appeared in the web sky. After checking it out I just had to interview one of its creators. His name is Tau. He would not say much about himself and though he appears to be a new figure in our community, I have an itchy sensation that I have met the lad somewhere before. Tau and two other well known StarCraft fans, MindArchon and Legacy Weapon are the creators of a new site designed for fostering map making and creating a new map database that is almost exclusively user administered.

You are greeted in their forums with this initial message:

"Welcome to Maplantis. This website is created by three individuals who believe greatly in the ideals of equal community and open map making. Maplantis is exists for the purpose of collaboration and perfection. No map is perfect - which is why we allow and encourage, individuals to share and edit existing maps and continue passing it on. Some people don't have the time, skill or motivation to complete a map from beginning to end, but here they are able to edit the map of their favorite maps and make the ideas and creations better than they were before."

This is an interesting development in the map making community. They fully support open source map making with the idea to foster knowledge sharing rather than map protection. It is their belief that map making, particularly in the USM setting, could have advanced much faster over the years had we all continued Blizzard's original open source map making. The creators of Maplantis.org are also responsible for OSmap which is a tool that is able to un-protect any map. This has been one of the few third party programs ever allowed through direct link and mention in battle.net's StarCraft forum. It is obvious that Blizzard approve of their concept and idea.

They offer many specific section for each time of map making, including replay movies. They offer all the current tools you may need for map editing and they plan to man a map making wiki. They have a forum and apparently offer forum space to different map making communities. I myself already took full advantage of the offer and moved the forums of the Brood War AI projects there. They probably have some other goodies I have not discovered yet. Here is a list of them and here is a their mission and goals. Anyway, here is the interview of Tau were he speaks a little about this new site. His answer to my first question, made me realize immediately I was in the presence of a thinking and very sharp entity. That is the best justification, I have heard so far, in the open source map making debate.

12-23-06 Interview of Tau, from Maplantis.org by Entropy

Final note, if you have some maps worth showing off, try uploading them. It is really easy and everything is pretty much on autopilot, from image to map info/stats. Pretty neat. Open for anyone, no restrictions.

+ Show Spoiler +
12-23-06 Interview of Tau, from Maplantis.org by Entropy


Why is it called map Maplantis?
We consider map making to be dying skill, it is essentially lost, in the way that many do not share their knowledge, in part due to map protection, so the skill and many map making techniques are lost every time one of our better map makers leaves the scene. We are trying to rescue all this knowledge in one site by providing the tools, the content space and the database.

Why the project? And why at this stage in the game?
There's a lot of map making forums and sites and SC is a rather old game. However, even so far after SC's release, it's STILL fun, and we're STILL finding new things to play around with. As long as people are having fun and thinking up new things, mapping will never die. We believe, that the ability for people to learn and modify will no longer alienate and separate mappers who maybe don't have that much time, or can't learn from the tutorials that can already be found online. It's also something thats never been attempted before, and if the concept is proven successful, may encourage other mapping communities not just for StaCcraft, but of any game to give Open Mapping a try.

What advantages will you guys offer over site like SEN and SC.org?
I think one of the most impressive feature we have at the moment is our maps database. It takes maps that people upload, generates a minimap picture and different statistics to store in a database (such as tileset, map size, number of players/computers/neutral on a map, trigger count, unit count, and so on) which will be completely searchable later. All of this is taken without any user or administrator interaction, giving us a very detailed database. Eventually we may get into things like Melee Map analysis, taking uploaded melee maps and automatically determining mineral counts, expos, and so on for players to find and download. We have our map making wiki partially running, a few other sites were starting to get the idea when we were developing it, but we've went all out and completely integrated it with the site. We're also working on some other things like Mapping Frameworks (maps pre-designed as templates for making other maps), and constant improvements to the features we already have in place. We call it a "project" because we know that it's a job that will never finish, as the community evolves, the website must evolve with it.

What is Open Mapping making? Is maplantis against against map protection?
Open Map Making is a phrase that we coined to define what we are doing. When people hear the word "Unprotection" it sparks a negative reaction. Open Map Making is more of a movement, that involves crediting previous authors and editors to a map, but at the same time releasing maps openly, by keeping comments, location names, and applying no protection to a map. This idea is founded upon "trust others and the StarCraft community to insure I am credited for my work". Our objective is not to rob people of the work they create, but to expand it to something better. Human beings are naturally imperfect. You may make the perfect map, but to others it may not be that way. If you've made a great melee map and release it, someone else may see the genius in your concept but realizes that there's not enough minerals in a few expos, or a terrain advantage of some kind. To put it bluntly, the most popular maps out there, such as lost temple, have many many variations of it, some which people prefer the original, or other variations of it. It depends on personal preference, which is what we want to encourage. What if blizzard decided that you were forced to use ONLY the original copy of lost temple and nobody had the means to create a variation without starting from scratch?

Meaning will they accept protected map uploads?
We think the community has benefited greatly from Open Mapping as it is. It is part of Maplantis' mission to encourage people that leaving maps open is a good idea, but even with that we don't force people to upload protected maps or to conform necessarily releasing their maps as open - however we will be providing the means for other people to open these maps if they wish to edit it or see how it works.

Any known map maker has joined the band wagon yet?
A few community veterans joined in, like Tuxedo Templar, Heinermann (aka, Deathknight), and a few other great mappers who have joined and are already active. The site is ideal as it runs upon custom software tailored for a map making site.

Have you contacted Broowarmaps.net yet? They have a similar uploading/database system, not as nice but full of great melee maps. Have you check it?* *http://www.panschk.de/map...pt/viewnews.php
Not yet in depth, I've seen it though. We have done something similar, but with a bit more automation and stores more data on a large scale basis though.


How much space you have available? Bandwidth?
100 gigs/month b/w, 4 gigs space for maps and we will increase it if needed.

Wow, nice going. Could you fill us in on who is behind this project? A little about you and your partners. You obviously must have a history in the map making community.
Mindarchon and LegacyWeapon are both wonderful programmers who originally sparked the debates by creating and releasing the controversial program - OSmap (Open Source Map). It is a program which removes protection with the click of a button and allows people to open a map in a normal editor. Regardless of the furious debates and predictions of the end of the world, nothing bad actually came of OSmap. Anyways, the 3 of us got together and collaborated to create Maplantis. We named it based upon Atlantis which is the "lost city" and we feel that it suits our theme because a lot of innovation and teamwork has been lost to a few individuals that use protection improperly to hide mapping techniques and prevent other people from learning or editing.

Apart form OSmap have they created any other program, site, or MOD?
LegacyWeapon has also created Uberation, ironically a protection program before he made OSmap. He was threw away and undid all his previous work because he felt he was doing something he believed in. He used to on clan ( u )'s website write Wiki articles for map making purposes, which he is carrying over to Maplantis as we're pushing it for the new front of map making innovation and learning. Mindarchon has created several websites in the past, and many smaller programs. His ability to create websites is remarkable and does a big part in the new features maplantis provides.

Ahh the Wikki, the content, will it be about anything StarCraft related? Or specifically Map making?
We're likely going to keep it map making and modding only. Mostly we want to focus upon that one area so it is as good as it can possibly be. Ever hear the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none"? Its something the site will live by. We know our boundaries and would rather team up with sites that already do a great job at what we lack then making a cheap copy of it.


Well in the golden era of map making, the early years, there was no map protection tool. Blizzard even allows modding and they never protected their own maps. I think you guys are on the right tract. I tried uploading a few maps and it is easy, I mean really easy. I can only see success ahead. Any last words shout outs?
All we want people to do is to have an open mind. Give a chance and see what happens in the end before predicting doom. With the right tools, management and people, this can work.
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
Alborz
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Canada1551 Posts
December 30 2006 08:34 GMT
#2
awesome, thanks
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27152 Posts
December 30 2006 08:35 GMT
#3
Very nice.
ModeratorGodfather
BuGzlToOnl
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5918 Posts
December 30 2006 08:41 GMT
#4
Lets check it out.
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-12-30 09:14:18
December 30 2006 09:11 GMT
#5
go go open source~ ^^

good find Physician
Official Entusman #21
Vin{MBL}
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
5185 Posts
December 30 2006 10:11 GMT
#6
nice good find
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
December 30 2006 10:24 GMT
#7
ahh I forgot, he promised they will making back ups every week
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9376 Posts
December 30 2006 10:26 GMT
#8
I'm horny now.

thx ragnar.
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9376 Posts
December 30 2006 10:34 GMT
#9
I just read this on the website..

Theres an interesting technique for removing creep quickly when zerg buildings die (apposed to it removing itself slowly).

You can create zerg extractors and kill them, it will leave behind a geyser, which in turn removes the creep instantly. A very creative discovery.


that's fucking neat. yo.
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
Dexxus
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States329 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-12-30 11:18:46
December 30 2006 10:47 GMT
#10
Wow... It looks like their traditional map section needs help though. A few of us TLers should join and upload some good pro-maps.
I need a signature so I'm using this one.
MuShu
Profile Joined March 2005
United States3223 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-12-30 11:43:12
December 30 2006 11:40 GMT
#11
Well, there's always http://broodwarmaps.net/ if you need pro-maps. But I'll see if I can upload some recent ones like Blitz X, etc.

edit: Bleh, there's only Traditional and Special. Where would current Pro Maps go? hmm...
Dexxus
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States329 Posts
December 30 2006 11:48 GMT
#12
The more places to get maps, the better no?
I need a signature so I'm using this one.
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-12-30 11:52:47
December 30 2006 11:49 GMT
#13
#mushu

They would go with traditional melee maps ~ there is many pro-maps, specially the early ones that suck ass and no one uses.. it is hard to define pro-map really, for example broodwarmaps has made a few maps that are pro-map level, but they never got a chance to be battle proven by real progamer. Bill probably can give you a better opinion on the issue.

People can judge what they like or not. If they want purely por-gaming maps the can download the map packs the leagues release (which they will be uploading too). I guess if there is enough whining about it they might add a new category, it is not really hard for them. I will ask. I will do my part and chip in a little help. I am adding all my map collection : ) which is huuuuuuuge!
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16998 Posts
December 30 2006 12:34 GMT
#14
I don't like how they credit the uploader rather than the author. Other than that, it's a very nice site.
Moderator
oshibori_probe
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States2933 Posts
December 30 2006 12:41 GMT
#15
hey, if osmap can unprotect any map, can it unprotect maps like hitchhiker so that people can make those into obs versions?
Fuck KeSPA.
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
December 30 2006 12:45 GMT
#16
any MAP..
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-12-30 12:49:56
December 30 2006 12:48 GMT
#17
http://www.maplantis.org/index.php?map=271

#Empyran good point, I thought same thing until I clicked on the pic or link to any of them maps. Check : ) You will be pleasantly surprised, much as I was..
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
December 30 2006 12:50 GMT
#18
On December 30 2006 19:34 funKie wrote:
I just read this on the website..

Show nested quote +
Theres an interesting technique for removing creep quickly when zerg buildings die (apposed to it removing itself slowly).

You can create zerg extractors and kill them, it will leave behind a geyser, which in turn removes the creep instantly. A very creative discovery.


that's fucking neat. yo.

I didn't understand this part...
Basically it's all about removing center creep faster and then kill the gaz ?
I can't find its usefullness since you need at least to be on a 2v2 team AND where you're Z and your ally is P or T.
Even in map like arkanoid you need to get to your ally base which is not really worth it. Why would you need to remove the creep when you're zerg ?
Won't work for rafinerie nor assimilator, you need to be zerg and there's no need to remove the creep.
Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh... Any advices is greatly appreciated.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
Pressure
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
7326 Posts
December 30 2006 13:02 GMT
#19
great find homie
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
December 30 2006 13:30 GMT
#20
#RaiZ it is mainly for UMS games etc.. just a pretty trick, that all.. its clever though.
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
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