Newbie Mini Mafia XLVIII
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
| ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
Anyone played with each other before? | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
Besides, we don't even know who the lurkers are before late in the day, so I'm not sure your point makes sense. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
Anyway, I really need sleep. Try to push the lurkers into the open, please. If we make it a policy from the start, they won't get ideas. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
I'm all for lynching a scum read for information as first priority, but first we need scum reads, and to have scum reads we need people to type things. One of the few ways anyone is going to go after each other day one is based on their meta knowledge of each other, and in this game that only puts Bereft, Blurry and heavenz in the spotlight so far (unless someone has neglected to mention playing with each other, so far). In essence, we don't have good odds for hitting scum yet. We can try to produce active townies and posts from scum to read. So let's do that. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
| ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
On September 26 2013 00:23 playerboy345 wrote: Why change the subject T_T this was a great subject to discuss and get everyone's opinion on the matter. I would love to hear everyone's opinion on it. But it's a newbie game and I would also like people to feel comfortable coming in discussing something else, not be completely put off by feeling like they're branded a lurker and need to talk about lurking. Honestly I care more about getting a good game going than making avenues of discussion that pressures lurkers too hard just to justify lurking. We only want them to contribute, about that or something else. On September 26 2013 00:25 heavenz wrote: here's our last newby game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146 Bereft and Blurry were town and I was mafia. So regarding Blurry, he's very reasonable, gives good imput, but keeps a rather conservative position. He was killed night1 so, I only know his day1 play. The spectators agreed that he was the "obvious" lynch choice, because he played good town (which wasn't that obvious to the players). I would expect of him to play a good townman here as well. Bereft has the right intention, but he was quite busy, so some decision came hasty. I would expect him to play active, calling players out who are not activly participating and pursuing town goals. So, assuming that both are town, I'ld say we have good chances. Even if they aren't town, and they are participating well it's an advantage. At a glance, you were pretty good scum and Blurry pretty good town, Bereft improving well. Good input. On September 26 2013 00:55 Balla24 wrote: This is my first game of any mafia. I used to play sc2 mafia but that really really doesn't count haha... I became interested in playing real mafia by watching eSports mafia on twitch.tv/koibu where a bunch of esports personalities (some from this forum) play games over skype. So all I really have is my knowledge from watching that for a bunch of weeks and then i've lurked in some threads before that. I've read up on a bunch of stuff in the stickies and what not for a while and i decided to dive into this one. I got into playing mafia the same way. I'm really tempted to ask and compare favorite players, but unfortunately that's against the rules under "off topic", I believe. Darn. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
Meta reads based on Newbie XLVII: heavenz and Bereft are coming in the way I would expect them to (which gives Bereft a little town lean and heavenz, unfortunately, nothing). Blurry is coming in a bit too constructed with only a let's-set-the-playing-field post. I would have expected something that felt a little more natural. Fine post, and if it wasn't his entrance followed by nothing I'd place it just fine in his posting pattern as town. I'm not comfortable with it as is. playerboy345 feels towny so far No opinion on MLuneth. Actually, if he feels comfortable enough to throw that question out (and I think I can figure out what the question is actually asking), that's pretty towny to me by itself, just odd. I have no personality read on him as yet to back that up, though, so neutral to me. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
| ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
On September 26 2013 16:26 MLuneth wrote: Time for my first scum read: heavenz I think he is scum because:
MLuneth, I don't agree with anything at all in that post. Feels like you're constructing a case; heavenz has been posting pro-town things. I suppose you could be town with a very early tunnel thought, but you feel scummy now. If you think you really have a case and you are town, go look at the previous newbie game linked and see if you notice something scummy heavenz was doing that he's replicating now. Barring that, I'm putting you in my top four scum. Blurry... still nothing. Could have real life explanations, but I have a bad feeling he rolled scum, started working on his first post being as pro town as possible, then realized he didn't know how to follow up as scum. I want to vote for him the most out of the lurkers, to be honest. Still nothing on the other two lurkers obviously. Better not overdevelop towny reads at the moment, need to reread thread and see if it'd be good or bad for town to try | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
MLuneth or Blurry IMO. Xlvanj is just a policy lynch, Jayte said something half-way decent that is non-indicative to me. MLuneth is trying to make cases that simply contradict pro town play, as if he's against contribution or meta information and talking about "clogging up" a thread that is only 9 pages as I'm writing this. It needs more contribution, not less. Blurry I want to see write, and give a thought process behind his first post. And input on MLuneth. Currently, ##Vote Blurry | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
If Blurry shows up or there is any good town case on MLuneth, I would like to switch to a lurker at the end. But MLuneth's play is scummiest so far, Blurry's only very meta-scummy. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
| ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
On September 27 2013 04:05 JonnyLaw wrote: + Show Spoiler [Blurry] + His first post was good but not enough to give any read. I really hope he contributes something soon because his lack of participation is hurting the game and his chances of surviving the lynch. + Show Spoiler [playerboy345] + He's been active in trying to move discussion forward throughout the game. Feels okay to me for now. + Show Spoiler [heavenz] + heavenz willingness to question people's reads puts him out there more than he may want at this point if he was scum. Again, seems all right to keep around for now. He's contributing and trying to force slips out of people. + Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] + owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. + Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] + stormtemplar is looking scummy to me. He writes a lot and yet says nothing. He's basically said he agrees zaragon might be town, he doesn't know about playerboy and death to all lurkers while telling others to contribute more to the thread. He's trying to misdirect and confuse discussion rather than forwarding it which I do not care for. + Show Spoiler [Zaragon] + Zaragon has been making similar reads to my own throughout the game and pushing for strong participation. He definitely feels more town than many others in the game. His willingness to focus on particular people could mean he's trying to get attention away from himself and the rest of the mafia but for now it's too early to say. I give him the benefit of the doubt. + Show Spoiler [Balla24] + Balla24 reads fairly town. He's been agreeing with heavenz and Zaragon whom I also like for the town. I could be getting fooled here and there are two mafia in their threesome. For now, there's better options to lynch though. + Show Spoiler [xIvanJ is useless] + One outta 13 aint too bad boys. Hopefully our replacement can play. + Show Spoiler [Jayte] + Could be lurking as a mafia. I just can't read him from the level of content he's put out. + Show Spoiler [MLuneth] + I want to call this guy scum from my gut. I really, really want to do it. But re-reading his posts just make me think he's a bit hasty and not scum at all. There are grammatical errors, shortened words and that half written post he managed to post. I dunno, he doesn't feel like mafia at this point in the game. + Show Spoiler [BajaBlood] + Hasn't said a lot. Could be leaning mafia, but he's okay for now. + Show Spoiler [bereft] + I know he said he'd be busy but why is no one mentioning his inactivity? Still, not the best candidate for a lynch. Okay here's my summation. Blurry, bereft (who did say he would be busy), Jayte and xIvanJ are inactive. I still think we should look for a better lynch candidate for today. I like zaragon, balla24 and heavenz contribution but I might be getting fooled because they seem to agree quite often. But hell, they're reasonable opinions. Time to see where people cast their votes. I've read through stormtemplar's posts multiple times now. He literally says nothing in them. Clogging conversation after being accused of being scum. I disagree and he's just trying to change the focus away from himself. Until he puts up a better defense of himself #vote stormtemplar I don't see where your Stormtemplar read comes from, nothing much was happening and he commented on my reads, adding his own. I do want to hear more from him, but people contributing well (and I think he is, relatively speaking, I don't mind thick paragraphs) are usually not good day 1 lynches. I want more to read him on, and he will give enough to see reasonably clearly whether he's scum when we have flips and roles to go on. Hmm BajaBlood's vote is a cop-out I think, on none of the current targets. Hard to read busy people (since they could be busy deliberately as scum). Will look at him more as well. I'll pattern read MLuneth again too; too comfortable to be scum was enough for me to explain the way he posts, at first, but then thinking about the structured post that basically just disagreed with pro-town play as a read, he's most scummy to me. I'll pattern read him again, but I still think he's a good lynch, up there with Blurry | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions. I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote. ##Vote MLuneth | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
| ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
| ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
Ok time to read some filters. | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
On September 26 2013 19:24 playerboy345 wrote: So my opinions after gazing through filters: + Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] + He has added nothing to the game by far, his posts are just one-liners which are basically useless posts. Hopefully we'll hear some more of him soon + Show Spoiler [Zaragon] + The one thing I found a bit odd was that he clothed his opinions on MLuneth and heavenz/Bereft with arguments but the only thing he said about me was that I feel towny. I'm wondering why he didn't back this up with arguments like he did with the other cases. Overall I think he is town, but not using arguments and just saying "he feels town" is a bit weird in my opinion. (It feels so wrong to be suspicious of someone who called you town T_T) + Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] + I think he is town, he made himself very clear on the lurker subject and asked me to elaborate when I wasn't clear enough. He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others, like: Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads. + Show Spoiler [Jayte] + Only an one-liner so far, and a highly suspicious (imo) one at that + Show Spoiler [JonnyLaw] + I got nothing on him so far. + Show Spoiler [heavenz] + On September 26 2013 16:58 heavenz wrote: onlywounderboy: only oneliners, while I am not against one liners at all, just writing 1 liners lacks much content. He tries to show activness even though he has no content, perhaps he didn't know what to write in the beginning. Now after 24h you should write more than 1 liners. Zaragon: has my strongest town read so far. Blurry is really falling behind expectation, that's weird. You really should post more. lurkers:Jayte, xIvanJ You both have to participate way more. I agree with you on onlywonderboy. BUT the bolded part makes me a bit suspicious, you say Zaragon has your strongest town tell but you say nothing to back it up, same goes for Blurry. Please elaborate on this when you can. + Show Spoiler [MLuneth] + On September 26 2013 14:57 MLuneth wrote: On my question, I'm a curious guy! I got lynched d3 and it's been several months since I last played, so I might be a little sketchy on some rules. What made you think it was a good idea to ask it in this thread? Wouldn't it make you an easy target for mafia or am I missing something here? And why are you going balls deep on heavenz? That's a pretty gutsy move. Your last posts basically says "I want to lynch heavenz!" without having a shitton of evidence to back it up with. + Show Spoiler [Bereft] + I got nothing on him so far. + Show Spoiler [Blurry] + His only post so far is on the lurker subject, it's not quite enough for me to have a tell on him. + Show Spoiler [BajaBlood] + On September 26 2013 02:48 BajaBlood wrote: Yeah, it's the shortest post so far, but I don't think he's alone in not having contributed any substance yet (myself included). Hopefully we'll start to see more contributions as our discussions turn more in this direction. Moving into discussions like this is probably more productive than the policy lynch, though - at least the guides say so On September 26 2013 09:51 BajaBlood wrote: Not terribly impressed that this is the only post so far from this player... Asking for mercy on lurkers then proceeding to post nothing else. First he defends Jayte for having only one/a short post with no content and then he proceeds to attack xIvanJ for having only one post with no content. Am I the only one who thinks that's SUPER suspicious? I'll keep an eye on BajaBlood and Jayte for now. + Show Spoiler [Balla24] + Don't got much on him so far, but nothing scummy. Like this post: On September 26 2013 11:37 Balla24 wrote: I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us. We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play. Looks town to me. + Show Spoiler [xIvanJ] + Only a one-liner so far, he has to post more. It feels like a small detail to base a town read on, especially since some of the things I've heard on the Stormtemplar case were concerns I had marked in my mind to look into over time. Also, the explanation feels contrived and worded overly strongly. Note playerboy's comment on Stormtemplar here: "He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others, like: " This, with a quote of what I actually consider the fluffiest part I've seen from Stormtemplar: "Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads." Looking into both of them now. Rethinking my personality read on playerboy a bit and rereading him. He also seemed quite certain at the last minute that we would see a green/blue flip: On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote: I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Possible sign of information advantage used to gain town credit, at that timing. Have a lot of rereading to do, might not get through it tonight | ||
Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
On September 27 2013 11:15 Bereft wrote: here's my thought dump. zaragon: + Show Spoiler + looking at his filter, right now he reads very pro-town, as he seems to be making an effort to keep the thread on track and provide transparency on his opinions and thought process on current players. BUT i do find his voting incongruous: On September 26 2013 04:24 Zaragon wrote: No opinion on MLuneth. Actually, if he feels comfortable enough to throw that question out (and I think I can figure out what the question is actually asking), that's pretty towny to me by itself, just odd. I have no personality read on him as yet to back that up, though, so neutral to me. i was surprised that he of all people led the bandwagon on mluneth as i took the above comment as him interpreting mluneth's question to mean that he was vig. in addition, i find it odd that he says this: On September 27 2013 03:22 Zaragon wrote: EBWOP: For clarity, I would like to push for Blurry right now since MLuneth is still participating, but I don't want us to set our votes on Blurry and not be able to change them if he comes in with good points. but then right at the last minute switches his vote to mluneth. On September 27 2013 06:40 Zaragon wrote: Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late. MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions. I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote. ##Vote MLuneth please shed some light on what made you change your mind from voting for a lurker to an "active" participant. you initially say you prefer to vote for mluneth because he's still participating, but later change your vote because he disappeared from the thread while blurry didn't post anything either. i noticed you used the same argument when you FOS'ed blurry earlier in the day: On September 27 2013 01:53 Zaragon wrote: so would like to hear your explanation. i really want to believe you're town, but this contradicting behavior makes me wary.Blurry... still nothing. Could have real life explanations, but I have a bad feeling he rolled scum, started working on his first post being as pro town as possible, then realized he didn't know how to follow up as scum. I want to vote for him the most out of the lurkers, to be honest. heavenz: + Show Spoiler + town lean as well, for the moment. he's actively calling players out, applying pressure, and not afraid to share his opinions. will have no issue with him if he keeps up the current behavior. balla24 + Show Spoiler + this guy's coming off somewhat town atm. initially this post brought up a red flag: On September 26 2013 11:37 Balla24 wrote: I'm not really getting any bad vibes from anybody at this point. Really need to hear from the less talkative people at this point to get a read off of them. As far as town reads I'm liking Zaragon for sure, and maybee Bereft. Both of them have been quite active in trying to move the discussion forward and providing their reads. They have also been looking into other's past games which i think is quite helpful for us. We just really need to hear from the quiet ones at this point though, they are really stalling the game and it's been a whole 24 hours. Some people have 1/2 posts only and have been quite weird. If we're not going to hear from them though, i'd like to hear a bit more from Heavenz now that some time has passed, maybe there are more insights about how people are acting first day compared to that last game they played together. Blurry specifically, as his opening post -> sudden quietness is worrying from what I hear so far about his play. while i agree that it's hard to have a good scum read on someone at that point, he brings nothing new to this table with this post. all he says is we need to hear from the inactives. his comment on blurry seems to merely be an echo of what i (and zaragon i believe) said before. he posts some analysis afterwards which assuages some of my suspicious, but later on, like zaragon, also changes his mind from voting inactives to a more active scum read. not too apprehensive of this player at the moment, but i would like to hear his analysis on the current players. brb gonna shower then read the rest of the filters Lots of little things went wrong. I'll break down my thought process: I did read MLuneth as soft-claiming a role and wanted to draw attention away from it at first. That's partly why my instinct later went "huh, I've stopped paying attention to this guy since I'm just hoping he'll live through the night... and those things he's saying make absolutely no sense. But he's trying really hard to make a case with those things. Makes sense for that mindset to use the question to protect himself as scum." Suddenly why I wanted to keep him safe became why I really thought he was scum playing badly rather than town playing badly. No response felt like scum slipping under radar. He'd have had plenty of time to make any kind of defense, unfortunately he was never around again. With the voting too. Blurry's opening post could be just pure newbie-friendliness, but it was clearly constructed whether he's town or scum, and he put it out there only to disappear (looks like he's back now). No explanation about being away or some such, just that block of what amounts to gameplay advice. I wanted to put some serious pressure on him since I read up on his last game, and have hopes for him as a strong town or a dangerous scum. That'd be how to figure out which, when the opening post was what it was. So I wanted to push Blurry, see what his alignment was, then either stay or go back on MLuneth. Neither player even appeared... So much for either part of that plan. Up to you what you actually think of the plan. I'm berating myself for the mistake, though I'm not sure I even should: I firmly believe it would've been good play if I had any counter-push or at least activity from Blurry or MLuneth. Both were scummy and I expected both to be readable when pressured. I've gone back to look at playerboy and Stormtemplar. Just the one oddity, but would like it explained by playerboy. onlywonderboy give us reads please. | ||
| ||