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I´d just like to reference a part of the discussion in THIS blog entry. A discussion that shifted toward something that is probably more suited for this part of the site.
I realize the blog section is a bit more hands off in its moderation, but there are still clearly things you need to keep in mind if you don´t want to annoy people. Or have certain blog posts closed/deleted. Common practice things when it comes to blogging that are fairly unique on this site. Unspoken guidelines that are hard for someone who´s done all manner of blogging in the past to immidiately figure out just by looking at the section. It´s such a ridiculously broad term, "blogging", even genre-specific ones, that almost anything goes.
I´ll highlight a couple of posts below I think are most relevant. That I in light of reading have rethought the entire format of the blog I´m fairly certain I´ll be continuing to write out of TL.net even after my own website is launched.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2013 17:10 Glaive wrote:
In response to the comment "Even blogs need a little more effort than 1 line and 1 picture."
Evidently that is the case for bloggers on TL.net, but as a general rule of blogging, I totally disagree with you. Sometimes a picture and one sentence is more than plenty incite a smile in your followers to brighten their day but for the briefest of moments. A blog is not the forums - a joke, or screenshot or whatever else that is on the forums considered "old! repost!" - is simply content, you´ll see on many successful blogs, eSports-related or otherwise. For it to be old is almost part of the criteria, it´s usually an entertainment bloggers job to pick out the oldies but goldies and mix that in. It´s only a small part of the content I have in mind for this blog however.
But since it´s becoming more and more obvious to me not everyone appreciates this type of "clutter" in the blog section, assumingly because they bump other blog entries down the list. And the general dynamic of this local blogosphere seem very different to what I´m used to. So perhaps this is simply not the place, it was only meant to be temporary until the website goes live anyway. I assumed people just followed their favorite blogs by other functionalities of this site and weren´t too concerned with that - with the lack of stickied guidelines in mind.
It´s no problem however! If this the official opinion of the moderators of this section I will simply adjust the format of this blog accordingly!
Edit: I only meant to practice my writing in english a little bit before the official launch, I didn´t mean for my blogging to be an annoyance in anyones day who isn´t a fan. That´s obviously going to have to change effective immidiately.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2013 18:13 Falling wrote:
Hm. Maybe this should be in website feedback if it's to do with moderation? In any event, I'm not aware of any official policy with blogs, but there is I guess common practice on TL which is generally to not make a ton of separate blog posts all in the same day.
But 1 line 1 picture is definitely going to get closed especially from someone making a lot of blogs on the same day. From the sounds of things you are transitioning from a fairly empty website to a very busy website. The thing to consider is if everyone started creating multiple blog posts every day with no more than a picture and a line. Blogs would be flooded with hundreds of blogs daily (or more).
Moderation is more hands off in blogs, but at some point, even blogs have standards. TL tends to error on the side of quality over quantity when creating new threads. Thank you for the much clearer response! I´ll stick with what seems to be the more standard 1-2 entries per day at most from now on and adapt the content as I go along with future feedback. From what I gather from your post you´re taking a very clear stance on what I usually refer to as "personal entertainment"-type blog posts. Typically common practice for various "personalities" to mix in with their usual content. If I knew your stance on this I would have changed the format much sooner. Or rather, would have retought the blog entirely from the start. I have a much clearer picture of what might fly as a both personal and generally appreciated blog in this section now. So perhaps you´re right that, at least this part, should be in website feedback - I´ll go there and reference this post. A little sticky with just a few paragraphs like that and maybe some other "good to keep in mind" things like I saw in a couple other "Are there any guidelines?"-thread would be super helpful for us newcomer to this part of the site! On August 29 2012 05:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
I think TL searches for a balance from all its community members. If you want to just post your blog entries and words and purely looking for feedback, then I don't think there is a problem.
If you want to do that while referencing everyone back to your off-site blog area, then of course Team Liquid asks for just more from you as a person, than just staying in the corner periodically reminding everyone you have a blog and words of wisdom.
If you're an avid reader, then I hope you can also become an avid conversationalist amongst the many parts of the forums and their topics. TL is pretty lenient with off-site referencing to blogs or other sites, but they also expect the minimum from you as a person a part of this community, priviledged to use these well-moderated forums.
Hope this helps.
On August 29 2012 04:03 Dirkzor wrote:
The problem I think Chill have, and to be fair I have no clue, is that you ONLY provide content to TL through you blog which is also used to promote you own blogsite. So basicly all you do is promote your blog.
I'm not saying you should post elsewhere for the sake of posting but from the looks of an outside you aren't really engaged in TL.net besides trying to promote your blog.
Something to consider!
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I´m completely new to these forums, I´ve sort of... transferred from an old, kinda dead, Wc3 community - wcreplays.com. A great one, but just very diminished in its glory, bitter and nostalgic. The point is I don´t know the answers to some of these more basic questions.
It´s completely doable to adjust this format in such a way that it´s restricted to only 1 entry per day. But it would dimish its value so greatly that I would be forced to keep a seperate one in the format I require for my research for a future book and documentary about eSports and the life of a progamer. But I have absolutely nothing against running it in its true form on TL.net, if there was a way that my "Clutter" didn´t show up unless people went look for it. That way the "Blog section" would remain intact, but bloggers like me would have the option to make more than one entry per day. Might be a bit much to ask for an entirely new feature, but I was just thinking.
Just a general question from a newb:
Why is this post one of select few without a single reply? Does the general population of TL.net not give a shit about the blog section? I just very much like the answer to that question. Because I´m hoping to run a pretty serious business around it. If you´d like of course. It would be so easy to solve this problem if there was a function to post an entry to your blog without it being announced to everyone. Perhaps even just because you want to post it for yourself. I mean, yeah, you could write all that down until you´re ready to post it. But half the point is documenting the timeline, so stuff needs to be said as it happens.
It might be fun to try a different format for a while while the website is being constructed, but I´m not sure I would keep at times in serious competition other than in my own thoughts. And when you get back you´ve sometimes written 4-5 blogposts in your head. There´s no reason to delay posting them. I´ve never heard of people complaining a blog has too many posts before. But I totally get that this is a website run by a team and not some media people hosting an eSports hub. I´m just trying to learn the ropes, that´s all. And this apparently pretty big issue, the way some peopel reacted. I still have people going in giving my lengthy entries 1 "Stars" 30 seconds after they´re posted. Again, don´t know if that means everything. I´ve seen several people turn off the feature, though not all. So it´s hard to say.
The point is it´s a problem that could be very easy to solve. I mean, at least giving the section some guidelines would be great. It´s just so common practice in the blogosphere to make unlimited entries, I suggest that you have a "Read this"-sticky that says this place is not run that way, and that there are a few, very basic ground rules you need to follow. I think I may have been impatient and therefore stupid, in the eyes of any learned member of this community. My only excuse is that I´m very busy playing and writing about Starcraft 2 every bit of time I have on my hands. It didn´t feel implicit at all. I even had a poster tell me I can write a hundred entries a day, so long as they were Starcraft-related. And what is and isn´t Starcraft-related is pretty debatable. So if you don´t know you just don´t know. Is it a matter of just listing and wording the problems? I could even offer to write the staff a suggestion and someone can correct the grammar mistakes. I may have some insight having just had to go through the process of as an outsider learning them all. Or do you consider a part of the process somtimes learning things the hard way? Just stuff I´d like to know as a newcomer.
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Canada8029 Posts
The system is fine. Anyone that spends a decent amount of time on TL knows that there is a certain bar that must be met regarding thread quality, including blogs. And in the event that a newcomer unknowingly makes a low content blog, it'll get closed and the user will learn. No big deal.
As an aside, the chances of somebody actually paying attention a sticky in blogs is close to nil. Just look at how many people ignore the mod notes at the top of threads.
Why is this post one of select few without a single reply? Does the general population of TL.net not give a shit about the blog section? I just very much like the answer to that question. Because I´m hoping to run a pretty serious business around it. If you´d like of course. It would be so easy to solve this problem if there was a function to post an entry to your blog without it being announced to everyone. Perhaps even just because you want to post it for yourself. I mean, yeah, you could write all that down until you´re ready to post it. But half the point is documenting the timeline, so stuff needs to be said as it happens.
Blogs gets a ton of new posts every day. Slots on the sidebar are reserved for new blogs. It's prime real estate. This is why spamming blogs with a ton of entries is frowned upon.
What'd be the point of posting a blog that nobody would see? I mean, if you want to do that, you might as well use Notepad or something. Also, expecting anything to change in the coding of blogs is optimistic at best, especially since the features (and bugs) of blogs haven't really changed in years.
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[QUOTE]On June 02 2013 12:21 Glaive wrote:
I´m completely new to these forums, I´ve sort of... transferred from an old, kinda dead, Wc3 community - wcreplays.com.
I remember WCR! Good times. 
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On June 02 2013 15:10 Spazer wrote:The system is fine. Anyone that spends a decent amount of time on TL knows that there is a certain bar that must be met regarding thread quality, including blogs. And in the event that a newcomer unknowingly makes a low content blog, it'll get closed and the user will learn. No big deal. As an aside, the chances of somebody actually paying attention a sticky in blogs is close to nil. Just look at how many people ignore the mod notes at the top of threads. Show nested quote +Why is this post one of select few without a single reply? Does the general population of TL.net not give a shit about the blog section? I just very much like the answer to that question. Because I´m hoping to run a pretty serious business around it. If you´d like of course. It would be so easy to solve this problem if there was a function to post an entry to your blog without it being announced to everyone. Perhaps even just because you want to post it for yourself. I mean, yeah, you could write all that down until you´re ready to post it. But half the point is documenting the timeline, so stuff needs to be said as it happens. Blogs gets a ton of new posts every day. Slots on the sidebar are reserved for new blogs. It's prime real estate. This is why spamming blogs with a ton of entries is frowned upon. What'd be the point of posting a blog that nobody would see? I mean, if you want to do that, you might as well use Notepad or something. Also, expecting anything to change in the coding of blogs is optimistic at best, especially since the features (and bugs) of blogs haven't really changed in years.
The guidelines would not be in place for people who have spent a decent amount of time on the forums. But other than that I agree with what you´re saying. Whatever standard this community feel should be upheld in the blog section/feed - should be upheld.
Yes, that a certain bar must be met is abundantly clear. But what would be the harm? I´m sure the system is fine, but I see this more as simply clarifying how the system operates for new users. IDK, it just doesn´t feel very good to be openly "hated on" for breaking rules that, at least I feel, aren´t very clear if you haven´t spent a lot of time on these forums. I don´t want to reiterate myself too much, but one entry per day isn´t exactly common practice on sites that host blog features. Without the guidelines in General chat my "Hi!"-thread would not have been nearly the success it was. I guess I´m just kinda bummed things went sideways so quickly after that. But once a line of communication was opened with the mods, everything was fine. But various members giving you different interpretations of the unwritten rules... It was very confusing at first.
Most other sections have guidelines, even if, as you say, few read them. At least they are there for those who actually do seek them. And if it´s true what you say, that the blog section gets a ton of new posts relative to other parts of the forum. Why does it lack them, especially when the forums history shows the same question fairly frequently?
But why are you assuming that no one would see the blog entries simply because they don´t show up in the feed? This site has a ton of subscribe-features. It´s very easy to find your way back to your favorite blog, and there find all new entries and pick up reading where you left off. Bloggers would, in this hypothetically scenario, simply choose which entries they decide to feature (one per day). But can add more at their leizure without cluttering the section, and put an (arbitrary) limit for "unpublished" post at 4-5 entries that only show up when someone seeks out your blog, or perhaps until the blogger decide to check that "publish" box or whatever at a later date.
Again, not expecting, especially not any new features or changes to the code. Nor do I expect guidelines to be added simply because I think it´s a good idea. But I think a "publish/don´t publish" check-box would allow for a wider variety of activity on the blog section without changing the system. And guidelines might help future newcomers to not feel as stupid
Just my $0.02
I guess if you feel that it´s just a waste of bandwidth my point is moot. But I know for my own blog that the quality of it will actually be slightly dimished because I have to "jam things in" instead of having more organized entry topics. And I guess the live-blogging experience becomes slightly more complex. As you´d have to edit a single blogpost, even with major updates. I´m going to be be at offline events doing a lot of that stuff for isntance. So instead of quickly being able to post an interview with say ThorzaiN while stuff is going on, it gets a bit more tricky. Obviously there are work-arounds, so I doubt it´ll ever be a priority to implement such a feature. But there are certainly benefits.
They were simply site feedback/suggestions, something to keep in mind the next time things are being reworked anyway perhaps? I would have assumed you´d want to try to avoid the hassle of having to explain the same thing over and over to every person who makes the same mistake? Or make the transition-period for newcomers as smooth as possible? Though you said it wasn´t a big deal, I certainly felt like it was to some.
At any rate, I think I know my way around the blog section now and I´ve established a good relationship with one of the mods if I have further questions. So I shant nag about it, clearly "the system" has worked for many years. I haven´t been around nearly long enough to judge if it has areas where it could or even needs to be "patched". But at least the discussion has been moved to the appropriate forum and I´ve made my suggestions and recieved a response (though hearing a mods opinion on the matter would be very interesting for me as a newcomer as well. The few mods I´ve had conversations with so far have been very intelligent and articulate folk) - all is well in the world
Thank you for your reply!
On June 02 2013 15:47 StarMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2013 12:21 Glaive wrote:
I´m completely new to these forums, I´ve sort of... transferred from an old, kinda dead, Wc3 community - wcreplays.com. I remember WCR! Good times.
Cool! I was Beef-On-A-Stick on there if that rings a bell, been onboard since ´04.
Ah.. the glory days.
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Hyrule19026 Posts
First, the Blogs section is a bonus. TL is primarily a forum, not a blog host, and should not be treated as such. A blog host gives users a place dedicated entirely to them. TL has a communal area where nobody is given special treatment. Your desire to post 50 blogs per day interferes with others' posts by pushing them off the highlight section and even possibly the index.
Second, see commandments 3, 4, and 5. Specifically they say not to post for the sake of posting, have content worth discussing, and don't use TL as a platform to benefit yourself. We are built around benefiting the entire community, after all.
Third, many posts can go a long time without replies due to a few factors. Namely, we are a worldwide website; many people may very well be asleep when you make a post. Other times, users will take time to read, think about, and construct a reply (again, this is due to our 3rd commandment). Replies such as "cool" and "+1" aren't welcome, and so users avoid them.
Finally, event posts generally aren't blogs. If you interview ThorZain, you can make a thread with the interview in StarCraft 2. Blogs is generally reserved for posts about yourself or something which doesn't particularly fit in another section.
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On June 03 2013 00:17 tofucake wrote:
First, the Blogs section is a bonus. TL is primarily a forum, not a blog host, and should not be treated as such. A blog host gives users a place dedicated entirely to them. TL has a communal area where nobody is given special treatment. Your desire to post 50 blogs per day interferes with others' posts by pushing them off the highlight section and even possibly the index.
Well phrased, almost exactly what I would have put in the proposed guidelines next to "Try to limit your blog to one entry per day with perhaps only the occasional exception if the content is such that it warrants a second entry."
I would like the note, though, that I (arbitrarily) said 4-5 entries and and not 50 :p
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Hyrule19026 Posts
On June 03 2013 07:10 Glaive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 00:17 tofucake wrote:
First, the Blogs section is a bonus. TL is primarily a forum, not a blog host, and should not be treated as such. A blog host gives users a place dedicated entirely to them. TL has a communal area where nobody is given special treatment. Your desire to post 50 blogs per day interferes with others' posts by pushing them off the highlight section and even possibly the index.
Well phrased, almost exactly what I would have put in the proposed guidelines next to "Try to limit your blog to one entry per day with perhaps only the occasional exception if the content is such that it warrants a second entry." I would like the note, though, that I (arbitrarily) said 4-5 entries and and not 50 :p
You also said "It's just so common practice in the blogosphere to make unlimited entries"
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Poor choice of word perhaps, but, well, it is. However, I simply meant that a limit at all is uncommon.
Obviously within reason, I´m fairly certain even an avid reader of your blog will think 50 new entries since yesterday borders on insanity. Anywhere between 1-5 entries per day is pretty normal for any type of blogger, professional or otherwise. This is of course irrelevant, as we´ve already established, TL.net is not here to provide that kind of service. But with TL being what it is (a freackin´ giant Starcraft hub), and eSports continuous growth, I´m guessing it´s going to happen more and more frequently. Granted, I don´t have any site statistics in front of me but it should be a safe assumption that the amount of new members (and consequently new blogs) drastically went up post-HotS?
I guess my main argument is "What´s the harm?" in being able to refer new members to a sticky, should they make this mistake in spite of guidelines existing for the section. That´s suggestion one.
And if (big if) TL ever decides that they wanted to allow for more diverse blogging on their website, without risking upsetting old and loyal members of this community by compromising the system (index, highlight section) - how one might achieve that is suggestion number two.
I think we can leave it at that, I feel like I´m just repeating myself at this point.
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EPT
