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Active: 13434 users

Unranked matchmaking

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
October 19 2012 09:13 GMT
#1
One of the problems of ladder anxiety is the fact that you are the only one to blame for your loss - there is not anything Blizzard can do about that.

I think Blizzard´s task is pretty much to make the unranked match making as "un-serious" as possible. What do you think Blizzard can do to achieve this?

Personally I think there should be no replay option for these games. They should not be included into your match history. Maybe Blizzard should even hide the name of your opponent and simply replace it with "opponent"?
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
blug
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia623 Posts
October 19 2012 09:15 GMT
#2
I'm pretty sure this is a troll thread but I'll bite.

Let's just make it so losses count towards your win stat and we'll get rid of losses all together.

Everyone should be a winner!
Derp
Dakota_Fanning *
Profile Joined January 2008
Hungary2346 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 09:24:29
October 19 2012 09:24 GMT
#3
Just check out the latest HotS beta changes. They've already added unranked auto-match making which will come to WoL too when the expansion goes live.
https://repmastered.icza.net
Gnusnu
Profile Joined December 2009
United States118 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 09:37:42
October 19 2012 09:34 GMT
#4
On October 19 2012 18:24 Dakota_Fanning wrote:
Just check out the latest HotS beta changes. They've already added unranked auto-match making which will come to WoL too when the expansion goes live.


Yeah that's what the topic was started for I believe.

As for my thoughts on it I don't think this will change ladder anxiety. Your losses will still be your own fault. I think a better UMS system would be a good start to give people something to do besides ladder. Also it was a good suggestion to be able to observe other people laddering inside of battlenet just to keep people logged in and tempted to play.

Overall I'm glad Blizzard has said something at all. They should do that more often.
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 14:53:01
October 19 2012 13:45 GMT
#5
They are implementing unranked matches via matchmaker in HotS. But there may be a problem. Currently in the beta unranked and ranked matches use same shared matchmaking queue. Thus the system can match an unranked player against a ranked player. As beta population is relatively small this makes sense -> shorter matchmaking queue times. But...

... Blizzard seems to consider this implementation for the retail version too. On Oct 9 Browder addressed the shared queue on US forums (source http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794871228#14):
This is a legitimate concern. We feel like putting them in the same matchmaker will reduce queue times. But if we start to see a large amount of aberant behavior (whatever it may be) we may have to rethink this decision.

I truly hope they create separate matchmaking queues for unranked and ranked 1v1 matches in retail version. As if they are in one shared queue there are lots of abuse possibilities. To list few from the viewpoint of unranked player facing a ranked player:

1) There is no risk for unranked players (no point loses & MMR not affected) -> Can do a) extra greedy / risky / coinflippy strategies, b) fun / joke / troll strategies (these should normally have low chance of success, but may work as they are often illogical).

2) Giving free wins for friends (especially on top of the ladder people face each others more often).

3) No penalty for leaving games -> leaving prematurely from games due to not wanting to play a) a certain match-up, b) against certain player, c) after falling little behind in a match, d) after match lasts too long, e) after messing up practiced build order, f) wanting to mess up competitive laddering and thus mass leaving.

I am sure there are lots of other problematic things too, if unranked & ranked players are matched against each others. I feel that if you are playing a ranked 1v1 game, you should always be matched against another ranked player who has something on the line (his points & hidden MMR rating) even if the queue waiting times may be longer.


(Edit: Focus of this text is 1v1 matches, not team games. Added '1v1' to couple sentences)
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
October 19 2012 13:47 GMT
#6
No replays? Really.

If anything, I'll be using the unranked matchmaking to play my offraces and that's where I'll be able to look and see more places for improvement.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
TmzZ666
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland144 Posts
October 19 2012 13:58 GMT
#7
really?

what a stiupid option => unranked matchmaking, like you could not create your own custom game...zzz

what i would like to have is seperate ladder for each race i like to play. basic stuff and so much problems to implement this...

Maggost
Profile Joined August 2011
Venezuela296 Posts
October 19 2012 14:02 GMT
#8
I love that unranked matchmaking, i am a low level player since the release and i will play only un-ranked. No stress or be mad about loosing more than winning.
Quote
kochanfe
Profile Joined July 2011
Micronesia1338 Posts
October 19 2012 14:04 GMT
#9
if you're really having that much trouble with ladder anxiety, maybe just watch sc2 and forget about playing all together...
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." - Lao Tzu
Croatodil
Profile Joined August 2012
Belgium28 Posts
October 19 2012 14:06 GMT
#10
Anxiety is not about "only self to blame".

It is because you get - points after losing. No one likes to get bad grades!!! I don't care if I lose! But fact that i get - points and i go backwards on ladder is the problem.
What do do what?
Trotim
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany95 Posts
October 19 2012 14:10 GMT
#11
Unranked ladder will be very good for those off days you sometimes just seem to have. I have the opposite concern really - not enough people will be in the unranked queue because most will play ranked.
MasterMonkey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States96 Posts
October 19 2012 14:12 GMT
#12
Here's a quick solution, get yourself another copy of SCII (or use a friend's ID who doesn't play anymore) and start playing on the ladder as a smurf so you shouldn't care about your ranking. That way when you lose, who cares? you lose rank on an account that doesn't matter and you can watch the replay to learn from it
Keep your oars in the brothel where they belong.
orionboss
Profile Joined March 2011
United States45 Posts
October 19 2012 14:13 GMT
#13
I would like to use the unranked matchmaking to improve my offfraces as well, but so far that has been no use. Half the time I play an unranked match it is some guy that used to be in masters league who just wants to stomp on people that aren't as good.
spawn more overlords
SilSol
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden2744 Posts
October 19 2012 14:13 GMT
#14
I don't like the idea of a unranked system. Then people will never play ranked and it will take forever to get a game. ;o
http://fragbite.se/user/117868/silsol since 2006 http://www.reddit.com/u/silsol77
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
October 19 2012 14:13 GMT
#15
On October 19 2012 22:45 korona wrote:

I truly hope they create separate matchmaking queues for unranked and ranked matches in retail version. As if they are in one shared queue there are lots of abuse possibilities. To list few from the viewpoint of unranked player facing a ranked player


LOL like that doesnt happen in 3v3 and 4v4 anyways?
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
October 19 2012 15:46 GMT
#16
I posted this in the HotS forum but it's worth repeating here too:

I have an update about how unranked MMR works (or will work):

- Unranked MMR is a separate MMR. Both your ranked and your unranked MMR uses whatever previously-established MMR value is available. Presumably, this means that during a season roll, if you haven't played any ranked matches but you have played unranked matches, your ranked MMR inherits your current unranked MMR. Whichever mode you play first, that's what the other's starting value will be.

- Players queued for unranked matches can potentially be matched against ranked-queued players. After the match, the ranked player's ranked MMR will change and the unranked player's unranked MMR will change.

- Again, to reemphasize: Unranked MMR and ranked MMR change independently.

Now, there are a couple of consequences of this:

- What's most likely to happen is because the two MMRs are independent, most players will probably have a "serious mode" MMR (ranked) and a "gimmick/troll" MMR (unranked).

- As long as ranked players can play against unranked players, this could muddy the actual skill level of low leagues like Bronze. If everyone uses their unranked MMR for monobattles or whatever, I don't think you'll get an accurate assessment of how "good" the average Bronze player is because it will vary wildly. If present-day Bronze players are complaining now about how many Bronze smurfs there are, expect those complaints to be much more frequent when HotS rolls out.


Here's how this relates to korona's concerns:

On October 19 2012 22:45 korona wrote:
They are implementing unranked matches via matchmaker in HotS. But there may be a problem. Currently in the beta unranked and ranked matches use same shared matchmaking queue. Thus the system can match an unranked player against a ranked player. As beta population is relatively small this makes sense -> shorter matchmaking queue times. But...

... Blizzard seems to consider this implementation for the retail version too. On Oct 9 Browder addressed the shared queue on US forums (source http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794871228#14):
Show nested quote +
This is a legitimate concern. We feel like putting them in the same matchmaker will reduce queue times. But if we start to see a large amount of aberant behavior (whatever it may be) we may have to rethink this decision.

I truly hope they create separate matchmaking queues for unranked and ranked 1v1 matches in retail version. As if they are in one shared queue there are lots of abuse possibilities. To list few from the viewpoint of unranked player facing a ranked player:

1) There is no risk for unranked players (no point loses & MMR not affected) -> Can do a) extra greedy / risky / coinflippy strategies, b) fun / joke / troll strategies (these should normally have low chance of success, but may work as they are often illogical).


Sort of. The unranked-queued player's ranked MMR won't change, no. However his unranked MMR will change per game. More on this below.


2) Giving free wins for friends (especially on top of the ladder people face each others more often).


I think this is less of a concern because generally people will do worse on their unranked MMR. If you did award free wins to friends -- which could certainly happen, particularly in the early phases where your ranked and unranked MMRs are very close -- you at least wouldn't be able to do this for very long. Eventually your friend's higher MMR and your lower unranked MMR wouldn't be matched together anymore, meaning you'd have to raise your unranked MMR back up just to give your friend some more free wins. I don't know if this will be a big issue in the live environment where there are many more players queued up anyway, but we'll see.


3) No penalty for leaving games -> leaving prematurely from games due to not wanting to play a) a certain match-up, b) against certain player, c) after falling little behind in a match, d) after match lasts too long, e) after messing up practiced build order, f) wanting to mess up competitive laddering and thus mass leaving.


There's sort of a penalty in that your unranked MMR drops. However if all this does is push the average unranked MMR down, then we basically end up with deflation and most of the unranked players hanging out near the bottom of the ladder. Then you'd really have no idea about the skill of the players you're facing: will your next opponent be a legit ranked Bronze, or a Master player who just leaves games when his troll build fails because "unranked doesn't matter"? To some extent it's already like this in WoL but I could see this getting worse.


I am sure there are lots of other problematic things too, if unranked & ranked players are matched against each others. I feel that if you are playing a ranked 1v1 game, you should always be matched against another ranked player who has something on the line (his points & hidden MMR rating) even if the queue waiting times may be longer.


(Edit: Focus of this text is 1v1 matches, not team games. Added '1v1' to couple sentences)


Right, I mean that's the main concern, isn't it? Everyone understands that as long as unranked matchmaking exists, it's going to cannibalize ranked matchmaking. The only thing we don't know is to what extent. If it turns out to be really serious and unranked becomes extremely popular, they may have to turn off cross-queue matching. I'm sure this is something Blizzard will be monitoring for a while.
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