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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZDmhI.jpg)
Dominion Warship
by Fatam
version 0.6 [NA]
Overviews:
90 Degree:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hp1dg.jpg)
56 Degree:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +The map export image function doesn't like hatch doodads sometimes, so some of them may not show up correctly on these overviews.
Statistics:
+ Show Spoiler +Playable area: 168x176 (this number seems too big for a 2p map, but it plays smaller than this)
Rush distance - nat-to-nat: 98 (Ohana is 92, for some perspective)
# of bases: 12 8m2g
# of destructible debris: 2
# of watchtowers: 3
Map Features:
+ Show Spoiler +The map has 4 relatively easy bases that aren't too far away from each other, which is offset by the fact that the rush distance is not big and there are 3 major attack paths.
There is a 5th base (which could probably be taken as an aggressive 3rd or 4th) nearer the middle of the map. It is a fairly safe base until the opponent takes down the rocks defending it, which opens up a huge ramp.
The 6th base is very far away for both players (by land, anyway) on the right side but is extremely defensible, complete with a defensive highground, LOS blockers, a xel'naga tower, and a 1 FF ramp.
Though there is significant airspace to the right of the each main, the secondary xel'naga towers and mains (mineral line on the left side) are set up in such a way that drops coming from that direction are not overpowered.
The central highground with the Terran Dominion symbol is one of the most important places on the map, as it is the widest attack route and it looks down on the central xel'naga tower.
The secondary xel'naga towers are great for covering your rear end from drops.
The map has 1 tight choke (down the middle), but otherwise it is pretty open (esp. once the rocks are gone at the 5th)
Aesthetics:
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Awesome looks amazing but the main doesn't look big enough D:! and some of the bases need to be larger like the thirds ramp for the forth should be bigger too. Bases are a bit boxy but that is just a picky thing about me looks so boxy... so mesmerizing.
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Haha, cool. That terran decal is sweet. I really dig your "realistic" aesthetics intent. When HotS comes out you will have a ton of new doodads that will be perfect for this. link to video
The 4th base should have a much wider opening if it's going to be that close. Or at least make the entrance facing to the left. The base on the right is soooo far away. But I kind of like it. Once the game gets to the stage where somebody takes it, all of a sudden the map explodes open and center control is not just nice but THE thing. At that point taking the forward 5th is way more viable if the gravity shifts away from the lanes on the left side. Don't think you need the towers on the right side, they just promote passivity. The rocks in the middle are kind of random. Doesn't seem like a chokepoint that you need to be small at any point. I love the tower in the middle, creates a big pull off the main route and the ramps on far side (to the right) provide perfect mobility to reward holding the center.
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Awesome looks amazing but the main doesn't look big enough D:
The mains were actually too big several days ago when I was still working things out w/ the map; I had to shrink them. As of now they are an itty bit bigger than Daybreak's mains (basically the same area), so I think they're fine in size.
The 4th base should have a much wider opening if it's going to be that close. Or at least make the entrance facing to the left.
That's probably true. ATM it's a 2 FF ramp. iirc the 4ths on common maps like Daybreak is more like a 3 FF opening and occasionally 4 like w/ CK. Good catch.
edit: I added some screenshots just for fun @ the end of the aesthetics section to show how one might defend the 6th base as each race.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cZTTY.jpg)
You basically have 3 chokes for 5 bases. Change which way the ramp faces at the fourth won't fix this.
I'd suggest you scrap the fourth entirely and move the third over and give it another entrance, but you'd have to do something to add more entrances. If you have to keep it, I'd move it to the right side, near the sixth base. Would also give some purpose to those bottom watchtowers.
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I wouldn't mind making big changes like that since the map is still fairly early in the creation process. But is that really an "easy wall-off"? All the stuff you have marked is like 15-20+ buildings worth of wall lol, And there would be no way to defend that long of a wall.
And it's just as many chokes to defend 3 bases as well - which is something to consider.
I do agree that the nat could be slightly repositioned to increase the size of the nat -> 5th choke by a bit. That combined with a 4 FF ramp at the 4th instead of 2 FF like Path suggested would go a long way.
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On October 19 2012 15:01 Fatam wrote:
I wouldn't mind making big changes like that since the map is still fairly early in the creation process. But is that really an "easy wall-off"? All the stuff you have marked is like 15-20+ buildings worth of wall lol, And there would be no way to defend that long of a wall.
And it's just as many chokes to defend 3 bases as well - which is something to consider.
I do agree that the nat could be slightly repositioned to increase the size of the nat -> 5th choke by a bit. That combined with a 4 FF ramp at the 4th instead of 2 FF like Path suggested would go a long way.
The expansion progression for the first 4 bases would benefit from redesign/adjustment for sure but I think it could be okay just with tweaking. Adjusting the nat is a good thought. The ease of defending the 3rd and 4th base just by camping between them is the biggest problem right now imo. Increasing the ground distance between them (possibly with some completely different terrain/cliffs/paths etc) and maybe increasing the flight distance would make it better.
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Merge the 3rd and 4th, right now its too choky and too easy to defend. Smooth that area and merg the expansions.
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Thanks for the feedback all, No need for any more "4th is too close to the 3rd" comments as I'm reworking the 4th, the choke north/south of it and that area in general. Feel free to comment on other things though.
So far I've also gotten rid of the "island" / overlord spot outside the natural in order to open up that area even more.
Was able to get rid of the rocks in mid by changing the nat/main so that the rush distance on that path even w/out rocks is fine.
edit: it needs some texture / doodad work because there's a few slightly barren areas now, but here's a rough draft if you want to comment on the changes I've made so far -
+ Show Spoiler +
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Looks like a really cool map. but how about adding a backdoor to the 6th? right now it would only be taken as a hidden base imo, and that would fix that.
EDIT: Just looked over the aesthetics and they look really really good, but I think you are using way over too many LoS blockers, and most of them will change close to nothing / just get in the way of your buildings, I say get rid of those that might block your buildings.
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A backdoor to the 6th is an interesting idea, as it would possibly help the defender more than the attacker depending on where it's placed. It's tricky to do with the current layout though - as putting a path that runs closer to the natural would probably make the nat's mineral line siegable from below. And the map is already -huge- in dimensions for a 2p map so I don't really want to stretch the map any more to the right in order to have room for a path there.
@ LOS blockers in the main - Players can still wall off at the main ramp which is the important thing (imo anyway). It's a roomy enough main base that the tiny strip of LOS blockers shouldn't hinder anything building-wise. "Are the LOS blockers in the best position to benefit the defender?" - is a good question though. Maybe they aren't.
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This is off-topic but has been on my mind for a while. I really wish there was a way in SC2 for one player's units to be able to pass through a choke, but the other player's units can't. Some games have things like this (see Heroes of Might and Magic with colored border guards/gates) and it absolutely EXPLODES the amount of things you can do in a map. If anyone can figure out how to do that I would tip my hat.
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You should take cliff away from the 6th and put it on the 4th or 3rd. Since right now the 6th is so far away and out of the way, that the ledge makes it even less likely to be taken. Where as if it was the 4th or 3rd (4th is best methinks) it would make expanding a little for difficult. Also if the cliff was no longer present on the 6th people could also take a hidden base there and probably hold it with few units even when drops become available. Just my thoughts.
PS you just get rid of the cliff and not transfer it to another base instead.
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On October 20 2012 08:26 coasts wrote:
You should take cliff away from the 6th and put it on the 4th or 3rd. Since right now the 6th is so far away and out of the way, that the ledge makes it even less likely to be taken. Where as if it was the 4th or 3rd (4th is best methinks) it would make expanding a little for difficult. Also if the cliff was no longer present on the 6th people could also take a hidden base there and probably hold it with few units even when drops become available. Just my thoughts.
PS you just get rid of the cliff and not transfer it to another base instead.
Here's another possible option - if I halve the highground so that the part that overlooks the minerals isn't there. That way a drop from the attacker can't mineral/geyser harass from the highground, it can only hit the town hall. You will probably already have a spine/cannon/marines/whatever up on that side of the highground anyway, so it's not like you'll be completely unready if he drops there.
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On October 20 2012 08:11 Fatam wrote:
This is off-topic but has been on my mind for a while. I really wish there was a way in SC2 for one player's units to be able to pass through a choke, but the other player's units can't. Some games have things like this (see Heroes of Might and Magic with colored border guards/gates) and it absolutely EXPLODES the amount of things you can do in a map. If anyone can figure out how to do that I would tip my hat.
You could do it with triggers for sure, maybe just with data. I have been wondering about this forever. I wanted to make a special cliff that all ground units can descend cliffwalk but can't go back up.
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On October 19 2012 19:57 Fatam wrote:Thanks for the feedback all, No need for any more "4th is too close to the 3rd" comments as I'm reworking the 4th, the choke north/south of it and that area in general. Feel free to comment on other things though. So far I've also gotten rid of the "island" / overlord spot outside the natural in order to open up that area even more. Was able to get rid of the rocks in mid by changing the nat/main so that the rush distance on that path even w/out rocks is fine. edit: it needs some texture / doodad work because there's a few slightly barren areas now, but here's a rough draft if you want to comment on the changes I've made so far - ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IAgmg.jpg)
Haha, wanted to comment about that front of the natural obstacles in the middle, as I thought with the highground behind it would have been too chokey; but as I see, you already dealt with it.
I like the map. I think the bases could need a little bit more of the red texture (natural, 4thh, 5th, 6th), which I think looks really cool.
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I kinda like the clunky feel of the terrain. Also the overview reminds me of FTL
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Just finished the big update. Original post has been updated (text/pics) to reflect the changes.
- all the chokes/areas along the left side are bigger.
- 4th was changed to face away from the defender, and has a much wider ramp.
- Main / Nat was changed a tiny bit to increase the rush distance slightly
- removed the middle rocks
- changed the 6th in a few ways to make it even more defensible
- the extra 2 XNTs are now inside the 6ths. While a bit of an odd choice, it provides a fairly important point of interest (because it protects you against drops) that is far away from the middle and it helps make the 6th more defensible once you take it, so I'm pretty happy with it.
- Improved the aesthetics (more red stuff in bases, added Sons of Korhal and Alpha Squadron logos, and some other stuff)
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