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Hello TeamLiquid!
I recently wrote a guide on Zerg Economy Management, with the primary goal of emphasizing the importance of reaching optimal mineral saturation:
16 Drones per base, 2 Drones per patch.
Even though the guide is focused on Zerg, I think many of the concepts are important for Terran and Protoss players as well. I'd like to use this discussion to ask my peers what the other races can do to ensure they're getting the most value from their workers. Obviously things like counting workers and double-mining patches will apply to all races, but what I'm really looking for are tips/concepts specific to Terran and Protoss. If you could please share your wisdom with me, I'm sure many players can benefit!
Here are a couple tips to get the discussion rolling...
Terran:
- When constructing a building, rally that SCV to a patch that is single mining.
- Use Mules on closer-mining patches first.
- In the late game, it's often better to call down supply rather than use mules (Mules do not produce any extra minerals - they just increase how quickly you mine).
-Building a cc, closer to the gas than the main cc will mine gas faster.
Protoss:
- When warping in a structure, shift-rally the probe back to a mineral patch that is single mining.
- In the early stages, try to use new probes from the nexus to produce structure rather than pull mining probes.
-When a probe is stuck behind a building and cannot escape, kill it or use a warp prism.
Both:
- When transferring workers to the expansion, first right click the closest mineral patch to your main so your workers start moving immediately. Then manually shift click probes 2 at a time to spread them out along the closer-mining patches.
- When sending out a scouting worker, choose one that has just returned a mineral patch from the farther mineral by pressing c, for cargo return, and shift clicking to the necessary location for the fastest route.
Thanks everyone!
- Tang
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I'm glad to see a start to this.
I can' t think of anything off hand, but I would definitely consider tips with chrono boost and talk about the efficiency of mules/scans/supply drops.
I guess, I could post something.
When you are in the late game, and aren't starved for mins, don't drop mules, drop supply depots. They actually create minerals, unlike mules, which just harvest them. Lategame with terran taking expansions can be hard so you want every mineral to do as much as they can.
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These are very basic principles but I noticed people still don't have it down. Work on these FIRST before all else.
Never stop making workers. Seriously, if your CC/Nexus ever stops making a worker, you're behind by that much.
Never get supply blocked. You supply block for 10 seconds, you're behind 10 seconds.
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All:
-When sending out a scouting worker, choose one that has just returned a mineral patch from the farther mineral by pressing c, for cargo return, and shift clicking to the necessary location for the fastest route.
-When trying to get workers to mine on the same mineral patch, and they're trying to move to another, instead of just spam right clicking on the mineral patch, try to move it into the same position as the one already mining. This decreases the distance from the minerals to the cc/nexus/hatch.
-Send workers to gas from the far mineral patches one at a time.
-When transferring workers to the expansion, first right click the closest mineral patch and manually shift clicking probes to deselect on the closer mineral patches.
Terran:
-If you use the mule to mine closer mineral patches, it usually dies before being able to return its last batch, causing it to effectively mine the same as one on a farther mineral patch, just a bit faster. If you need immediate minerals use it on closer mineral patches and pull it away before it mines for the last time. If not mine the farther mineral patches.
-When building an inbase cc, you can keep it as close to your base cc minerals to shorten the travel distance for the scv to move to get to the minerals.
-Building a cc, closer to the gas than the main cc will mine gas faster.
Protoss:
-When chronoboosting probes, a chronoboost lasts a full duration of 2 probe productions, so chronoboost at the beginning of a cycle and not at the middle if producing probes to get full usage of the chronoboost.
-When a probe is stuck behind a building and cannot escape, kill it with a stalker, and use its supply to make another stalker =p
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On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
- In the early stages, try to use new probes from the nexus to produce structure rather than pull mining probes.
I never understood the advantage of doing this. What's the difference?
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On July 14 2012 04:56 Rubix314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
- In the early stages, try to use new probes from the nexus to produce structure rather than pull mining probes.
I never understood the advantage of doing this. What's the difference?
First of all, it times really nicely (especially with 13gate, 15gas, 16pylon, 18cyber). Second, it saves a little bit of time (the travel distance from the nexus to the minerals).
Picture a nexus with minerals directly above it and you want to build a structure below your nexus. If you choose probes that are mining, they have to run the distance between the minerals and the distance of the nexus, whereas a probe rallied from the nexus will come out the other side of the nexus and save that bit of time.
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On July 14 2012 04:56 Rubix314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
- In the early stages, try to use new probes from the nexus to produce structure rather than pull mining probes.
I never understood the advantage of doing this. What's the difference?
You don't lose any mining time. Basically only a good thing and can put you a few minerals ahead. It also allows any stacking you've done to retain their efficiency more easily. :D
On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
-When chronoboosting probes, a chronoboost lasts a full duration of 2 probe productions, so chronoboost at the beginning of a cycle and not at the middle if producing probes to get full usage of the chronoboost.
This doesn't seem quite right. Either way you shave the exact same amount of time off of probe construction (assuming it's constant).
On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
-Building a cc, closer to the gas than the main cc will mine gas faster.
Since when? 3 SCVs already have lag time where one isn't mining gas. You can't mine gas any faster, period.
On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
-When building an inbase cc, you can keep it as close to your base cc minerals to shorten the travel distance for the scv to move to get to the minerals.
The counterpoint to this, of course, is that you're going to take longer to land it at your expansion. If this is your natural CC that you're building, that means more missed SCV construction time and a longer time where you have an inefficient, over-saturated main. For a 3rd orbital, it's somewhat personal preference, but the same general rule does apply. You'll lose less construction time by placing it closer to your third.
On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
- Use Mules on closer-mining patches first.
Correct, but you have to remember it's not that that simple. There are technically three (old info says 4, but that seems to be outdated from what I've heard) different distances for mineral patches.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=237419
So, if you land a MULE on some patches, they'll die halfway into their last trip. Gotta keep an eye out for that!
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it's not mineral specific but on most maps having 2 harvesters X 4 geysers will result in both more gas and minerals than having 3 harvesters X 3 geysers. (Applies mainly to T/P b/c Z loses the worker making the 4th geyser.)
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United Kingdom162 Posts
On July 14 2012 05:07 Catechin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
-Building a cc, closer to the gas than the main cc will mine gas faster.
Since when? 3 SCVs already have lag time where one isn't mining gas. You can't mine gas any faster, period.
Technically, this can be true if the gas geyser placement is sub-optimal for mining and isn't fully saturated by 3 workers. I believe this is only the geysers which aren't vertically or horizontally in line with the cc, and then not even all of the positions, but at least few of them really do have slower mining rates.
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I just wish there was a specific number of workers on minerals for Terran (and Protoss). Has there been any research on this?
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On July 14 2012 05:21 benthekid wrote:
I just wish there was a specific number of workers on minerals for Terran (and Protoss). Has there been any research on this?
It's pretty much the same. You actually want more like 20 workers for 8 patches on most maps, since about half or more of the mineral fields can't be optimally harvested with 2 workers since they are further from the Nexus/CC/Hatch. With 20 on minerals, you might have one drifting back and forth every once in a while, but it's about as close as you can get to optimal without making too many probes drift.
Of course, if you're mining gas, this bumps the worker count up to 26.
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On July 14 2012 05:18 totalpigeon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 05:07 Catechin wrote:On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
-Building a cc, closer to the gas than the main cc will mine gas faster.
Since when? 3 SCVs already have lag time where one isn't mining gas. You can't mine gas any faster, period. Technically, this can be true if the gas geyser placement is sub-optimal for mining and isn't fully saturated by 3 workers. I believe this is only the geysers which aren't vertically or horizontally in line with the cc, and then not even all of the positions, but at least few of them really do have slower mining rates.
Mmm, you are right. The only geyser I know of requiring 4, however, is on that one GSL map whose name I have forgotten with the 3 geysers in the middle two expansions. Perhaps that's an error by the map-maker? Either way, usually the mineral lines are against a wall, so you can't get a CC next to that geyser anyways! 
I do remember metalopolis having that one gimped geyser, though, haha.
On July 14 2012 05:21 benthekid wrote:
I just wish there was a specific number of workers on minerals for Terran (and Protoss). Has there been any research on this?
There has been, yes. In short, 16 is most efficient, 24 is maximum load. You lose efficiency really quickly after 16, though. Up to about 20 is considered okay, though.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/index.php?title=File:StarCraft_II_Zerg_Harvesting_Chart.jpg&filetimestamp=20100619133419
I know it says zerg, but it's the same for any harvester.
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Isn't there something where MULES will expire right before returning minerals so you just straight up lose 30 minerals from your base? What patches does that happen on?
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On July 14 2012 05:56 SnipedSoul wrote:
Isn't there something where MULES will expire right before returning minerals so you just straight up lose 30 minerals from your base? What patches does that happen on?
Yes there is, you can use judgment better than math/timings to figure out when this is going to happen.
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On July 14 2012 04:59 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 04:56 Rubix314 wrote:On July 14 2012 04:28 TangSC wrote:
- In the early stages, try to use new probes from the nexus to produce structure rather than pull mining probes.
I never understood the advantage of doing this. What's the difference? First of all, it times really nicely (especially with 13gate, 15gas, 16pylon, 18cyber). Second, it saves a little bit of time (the travel distance from the nexus to the minerals). Picture a nexus with minerals directly above it and you want to build a structure below your nexus. If you choose probes that are mining, they have to run the distance between the minerals and the distance of the nexus, whereas a probe rallied from the nexus will come out the other side of the nexus and save that bit of time.
As far as the 13151618:
15 gas is a little late after 13 gate.
It's better to use a mineral probe for 16 pylon unless you want it away from your mineral line.
Sometimes rallying 18 is good and sometimes it isn't based on position.
[/QUOTE]
- When sending out a scouting worker, choose one that has just returned a mineral patch from the farther mineral by pressing c, for cargo return, and shift clicking to the necessary location for the fastest route.[/QUOTE]
Seems like a strange way to do it. Why not just grab a far patch probe on the return?
[/QUOTE]
-When chronoboosting probes, a chronoboost lasts a full duration of 2 probe productions, so chronoboost at the beginning of a cycle and not at the middle if producing probes to get full usage of the chronoboost.
New tips. [/QUOTE]
It is one probe and a little over 2/3. And really bad advice as it is common to need chrono in the middle of a probes build.
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On some positions it is better to distance mine than have more than 3 probes on a far patch or 2 on a close patch.
The earlier you start probe stacking the better your build will work out. It's a big deal.
Vision hotkeys on bases make it really easy to macro as toss.
Don't put pylons on the corners of your nexus. They are a big cause of trapped probes.
Hit return cargo as you maynard as it doesn't interfere with their rally.
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Got a few Terran tricks to share.
For one, you should actually always mule on a FAR mineral patch. Although the close patch will net minerals fractionally faster, you will actually lose 1 MULE load of minerals due to the MULE expiring on its way back to the CC.
Upon controlling your natural expansion, the most efficient way to mine it is to transfer 4 workers from your main, along with the SCV from building your CC and the bunker/scouting SCV that makes 6. Saturate your main to 16+6 gas then transfer the rally to your nat, saturate that at 16, then rally to closest patches until you take a third for optimal mining.
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On July 15 2012 19:31 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Got a few Terran tricks to share.
For one, you should actually always mule on a FAR mineral patch. Although the close patch will net minerals fractionally faster, you will actually lose 1 MULE load of minerals due to the MULE expiring on its way back to the CC.
I disagree, mining out the base 30minerals earlier isn't a huge problem, I think it's much more useful to use mules on close patches to achieve higher income asap.
It always depends on the situation though, so sometimes it's a good idea yeah.
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As terran you should mule different patches as much as possible(unless you have a special build that calls for it). keeps you on 8/16/24 patch eco just that much longer...
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EPT
