EPT[T] MTG Mini Mafia
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Also as already mentioned I'm taking this game as an exercise in not talking way to much again, so I'm trying to let marv do most of the talking while not spamming up everything myself. But that first was kinda weird. ---Toad | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 25 2012 09:01 GreYMisT wrote: werebugs-go are you running affinity? not exactly. Why? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 25 2012 09:38 Oberyn wrote: Any particular reason its funny? That my post (Kita). From now on though, you can assume that all posts were made by us as a team, so we won't by signing our names. Telling us that you're not going to spam is spam <3 [...] What is the strategy to use as mafia in SSB mafia in irc Kita? How does Town usually lose in those games? I think this game will play a little like igroks irc SSB considering the mechanics, that's why I thought it's funny. If gonzaw had posted that, whatever I don't recall him playing those funny set-ups a lot but you played quite some SSB as well yet you posted something like that. With everyone having 20HP this essentially plays a lot like a no-flip game the first couple of cycles because we don't get information early on because neither town nor mafia can outright kill someone, hence the SSB reference because in that game mafia has 1KP, a lynch is treated as only 1life as well and everyone has 3 stock. So "worst case" someone gets lynched and shot by mafia reducing him to 1 stock. The real worst case would be town focussing dmg early on as in: lynch d1, vig n1, mafia shot n1 => mafia already killed someone although it's a multi-life setup. That happened once to me because some guy thought it's a good idea to shoot into someone who already lost stock. In reality you usually don't focus dmg early on and the unwritten law is something like "never shoot someone who already lost HP unless you're really certain". Sure if you're right with your read that's awesome but being wrong on a read in a game like this is way worse than in a normal game, therefore you don't really want to commit early on, because that leads to mafia shooting our guys down 1 by one early on. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 25 2012 14:45 Oberyn wrote: Artanis, how does the Attack Phase resolve? + Show Spoiler [[...] + ] Which players decide who to attack with and which players decide who to block with? Can you attack and block with a monster at the same time? If not, what determines if you are able to attack or you have to block? (i.e someone's "turn" in attacking came before yours) Can different players "team up" in a "same turn" to attack you? For instance a creature from player A has banding....and decides to band with a creature from player B to attack player C or something? Yeah I'm not sure I really get how the Attack Phase will work. Also can players use stuff from other players as well or something (if they agree) like that banding situation? Ehmm....I think those will be all the questions for now  Wait...marv is playing as WB-G as well? Okay I say we all team up to kill the marv-Toad hydra by the end of the next round, marv policy lynch. ( )Although to be honest I don't really like WB-G's attitude so far. He seemed pretty antagonistic towards kita and acted in a condescending manner towards him (with the "SSB mafia strategy" thing he talked about). I also don't like Toad giving himself excuses for not posting: I don't remember him specifically saying he is using this game as an exercise to stop spamming, the only relevant post I've seen from him about it was: And he didn't seem to make it clear at all that "this game is an exercise in not talking way too much again". (If I somehow missed it then please show it to me) He did seem one of the first to start discussion though so I'm not that suspicious of him, but I want others opinions on him. Also Prob, I know you are saying "Gonzaw obvious mafia, his accusations feel forced and he's too aggressive" by now in the Obs QT so shut up >_> /gonzaw Yeah I was kind of referring to that post you quoted but especially to this one: On June 19 2012 22:49 Toadesstern wrote: We need more people to hydra. Make this like couple therapy: Everyone has to hydra with someone else for the lulz. I am going to do the magic stuff and marv is doing the useless mafia stuff while I pwn everything no matter of alignment. Not posting a lot might be a good "therapy" for me to be less hypno-toadish :p I realized that this was not precise message at all and people could treat it like a joke for whatever reason, so yeah I mentioned it once again to make sure it wasn't a joke. I'm lying a lot in games when talking about games but I'm never lying when talking about outside of game stuff like this or when I'm going to be afk for a day because I'm taking the train to my parents place so I figured it's best to make a quick mention about it to not get some jubjubs later on screaming at me "heeey, why is Toad not posting and marv is the one posting all the time? LYYYYNCH HIM". That's how I am: I am open about stuff like that no matter of alignment and just telling the truth because if I don't as town I'm starting confusion on stuff I can most likely never prove and as mafia it's not like I can do something wrong. And well about the kita thing: This is a multi-life game therefore it's probably going to play like a multi-life game and I know that kita knows how to play those. I never intended it to be condescending. I wanted to know wether Kita posted that first post or you, that's why I was talking like that, although I don't have an idea why it's "condescending". But surely being aggressive (I think it was aggressive and not antagonistic...) is a mafiatreat I guess? This hydra business is real weird though, I'm getting different reads from gonzaw and kita  | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
What good is it for you guys if you know my deck (which shouldn't be hard to guess at this point of time) anyways. Someone already pointed it out: Those were constructed pregame so all we get to know is what general gameplan someone has but that's not even helping. Let's say the green guy is not an elven guy but a "big green monster"-guy. If he were to claim that and ended up being town mafia would know that they don't have to deal with him early on at all. We can't adjust our strategy according to claims because we don't know if something "dangerous" is a huge asset for town or something really dangerous right now. And well... claiming colors... I'm sure everyone is able to read the other thread and figure that out themselves. Everyone was given the color that is most used in his / their deck and if you have someone with two islands, two mountains, two forrests or whatever else at this point of time that miiiight be a hint. I'd say we should start talking about stuff happening. Greymist what do you think of this post: On June 25 2012 15:03 Nova_Terra wrote: Also wtf how is anyone okay with this flying ? I like that post for a bunch of reasons, what about you? Also as a sidenote about marv: Yeah he never played magic before. I'm explaining stuff to him in skype (or once he's back) but I'm starting with stuff like "okay, so you have an economy, like in SC. That economy are your lands and you can use that to play monster(s) or spells.... if you want to play something you have to tap your land(s)... if something is tapped you can't use it this turn anymore". So yeah it's really basic so far and I'll screw what I said earlier. I'll post a bit more than I intended to the first couple of cycles if we keeps talking about magic "theory". He could talk about that but that'd be nothing than just blabbering what I told him in skype about it :p | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 26 2012 01:57 Promethelax wrote: so lets' talk mafia instead. Since there is no day one lynch we have an attack phase to work out, so far none of us have creatures with haste (although Matt might, where is he anyway?) so none of us will be doing damage with creatures. However some of us must have spells that deal damage, do we use them now or later and who do we target? Why? Since attacking is our lynch equivalent we should be talking about it. So far we have wasted a day talking about mechanics (which, maybe, hasn't been a waste since this set up is new to all of us). We should move on to something where mafia can't just play follow the leader and has to make some statements for themselves, how should we as town do damage? Do we each attack the guy we have the scummiest read on or do we all work together to kill one guy or do we intentionally spread the damage around so that everyone gets a taste? What does everyone think? and why? yeah but that again is talking about the set-up. Wether or not we should use spells or whatnot. We can't waste another day on talking about how we want to to stuff. I'd rather talk about who gets to be the target for what reason and than talk about how we're doing it. That's why I quoted that one post from Terra to talk about stuff like that. On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote: If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time. I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers Why are you dodging this one? As I already said I like that one post for a reason. I want to know with what mindset you're playing this game and if you're looking for the same things I am looking for. Apparently the post I quoted did not catch your interest when it should have. He didn't say he dislikes your slivers. He asked why noone else has a problem with something that potentially makes a shitton of your monsters fliers. He's scared about that card of yours. Sure that could be a clever mafia tricking us but do you think a mafia would be scared about something like that? If he was he'd just take you out early on. This looks like a townie being scared to face someone with a shitton of fliers because he thinks he's not prepared for that in the way he'd like to. Or it's a mafia who thinks it's easy to get people on you with a cheap argument if people consider this dangerous as well. Why are you not paying attention to stuff like that? That's why I quoted it because I think it's a post people could have opinions about while all the other "let's talk about mechanics posts" are easy to do no matter of alignment. That post however is either townish influence or mafia influenced and people should be bound to have an opinion about stuff like that. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:41 Promethelax wrote: True enough...though it would still work on my harrier and Fulla's 'mancer (unless we buff them). It seems too early to do that since there is a 7/9 chance that GreY is on our side and weakening a powerful town player is a bad idea. I like the idea of attacking with everything and not blocking with anything, it seems pro-town to me to weaken everyone. In fact I think it would be better for us if everyone had 1 life instead of 20 since that would totally mitigate the increase in mafia kp. Well that's kind of the case. We can't outright kill someone right now and neither can mafia. Yeah mafia thingie gets stronger every cycle but we get way more stronger. Picture some guys sticking together on something like day4 and attacking with what they've got. They could easily kill someone in one cycle, so towns "lynch" get's stronger faster than mafias KP, especially in the later game if you have something like 4 o 5 lands and get a 3/3 or 4/4 creature out instead of a 1/1 creature like now. So that's why I disagree with what Kita said about focusing our attacks early on to not play the long game. I think town's getting stronger way faster. But that's AGAIN talking set-up. I think I did a nice post about greymist. How is noone talking about that part but instead people keep talking about the 3 lines of set-up talk in there I (or someone else in another post) did to answer someone else. So far what I pointed out about Greymist strikes me as odd. I think he would not have answered the way he did as town + Show Spoiler [clicky] + On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote: If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time. I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers but instead just talked about it. Even if he considered it a null, there's no harm in being honest about it, yet he dodged the question completly and I think he's not even paying attention to stuff like that. If you disagree with that it's AT LEAST something to talk about. Why do you disagree with what I said about Greymist or why do you agree with what I said about Greymist? Do you think it's a small hint, a rather big one or do you think it's completly irrelevant because you disagree with me. That's all stuff we could talk about. Nova_Terra said he doesn't like kita+gonzaw over here: On June 25 2012 14:45 Nova_Terra wrote: Also oberyns posts I do not like, coming from experienced players and seeming so unsure Etc. Keep an eye on him/them That's also stuff we could talk about but instead everyone keeps talking mechanics instead of stuff that gets us somewhere. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 26 2012 05:43 strongandbig wrote: I agree with this train of logic except for the not attacking part. What we need now more than anything is information. Sure attacking weakens us, but by like 1 or 2 life. I'd like to see who does what. I never said we should not attack. I said we don't need to focus our attacks for the sake of focussing because if we're wrong focussing our attacks is even worse in a multi-life set-up. We need to make sure we're not just focussing for the sake of focussing our attacks. It's hard enough to get a majority in normal games with lynches and voting. If we force people to do what the "group" wants to do we make everyone do what the majority wants but that can be influenced by mafia as well, not to mention that it's giving people easy excuses like "well I attacked him because you told me to" essentially ruining the town atmosphere within a couple of cycles. Not to mention the thread of being wrong on a read in the first place. I'd rather have people explain their reasoning themselves instead of just doing what someone told them to do. Keeps people accountable / responsible instead of sheeping whatever looks nice. Wiggles got runner up for the mayor-election in LV for saying crap like "I'll do whatever town wants me to do and I'll discuss what I'm going to do with all of town" because people think that's something nice, when in reality it's just a cheap excuse for saying "sry guys, just did what you told me to do" later on. On June 26 2012 05:39 Fulla wrote: I am newish to forum based mafia yes sorry. I'm not used to people posting such huge chunks of text at a time, and replying. I'm more used to real time fluid constant chat it's a bit overwhelming. It's not a good excuse I know, just bare in mind. Anyways It seems the more I talk the more I only make myself suspicious, but I'll try to keep contributing. Hopefully steadily more useful input. Town Obe + Prom - seem very town to me. Grey - town feeling to me. Neutral Strong - not sure, why so eager to attack? Nova - not sure - quite hostile, but then probably just low tolerance for noobs, which is fair enough tbh. Can't say yet Were - 1 post..? Matt - barely posted anything? Zeal - only posted how agrees we should all reveal? What do you mean with 1 post? My filter shows 12 posts so far. Also we need explanations on reads or you're unreadable. Most of all Townreads are incredible easy to do for mafia, so I'd rather talk about mafiareads because they're hard to fake. Mafia have all the information they need and know who's town and can just dish out a couple of townreads no problem. So here's two possibilities: 1) You are a mafia and you posted that to look like someone doing "stuff" when actualyl that's nothing because as mentioned dishing out townreads is incredible easy as mafia, especially if you're not even explaining them 2) You are a townie who thinks he needs to post something for the sake of posting something. If that's the case those posts don't really help us because we can't read anything into that except for "yep, got the same idea" or "nope, I don't think so". Especially if we don't know how good you are (you said you're new) we can't keep you accountable for something like that. Here's how this works: You quote something, explain why the quoted part is interesting and what strikes you as odd. See the post I did about Greymist for example. The first one I did was fishing for reactions. The 2nd one was a conclusion to Greymists answer to my first one and I explained what stricted me as odd so far. If activity is low or you feel like we should move on to another topic than the one's that's currently the one everyone's talking about (in that case it was set-up-talk) you may add a phrase like "guys, what are your thoughts about that stuff?" to make sure people don't just ignore it. ///Preview-Edit:/// On June 26 2012 06:07 Fulla wrote: Could we not just force everyone to say who they suspect/would attack? Either way we need the silent ones to speak first. See, that's the point. That's what we're doing right now and so far only very little people even started to talk about who might be suspicious and actually explained why they think so. There's really a shitton of stuff to talk about right now and noone's willing to.
that's all stuff that comes to my mind right now and that's all stuff that people could have different opinions on right now depending on wether or not someone knows the guy in question and what he thinks about the rest | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Anyways I could have used a uni-proxy for http:// stuff only but would have died of boredom this week. So here's the thing: I have to catch up on what happened the last 24 hours, I have to post my game I'm about to host and I have to buy some food or I'm going to starve. I'm starting with the food thingie right now but wanted to give you that update, especially to marv as well because he hasn't seen me for 24 hours now and might be wondering what's going on, so instead of 2 posts I am doing just one for everyone lol. If you have something really important that I need to read RIGHT NOW make a post with a "Toad" in it and make sure it has at least one [b] and [big] tag around it so I see it as something important. Other than that not much to say right now. I tapped both my lands anyways, my creature has no haste and I can't do anything this cycle anyways, so I don't see a reason to rush for me here. If you do see a reason, tell me as just mentioned and I'll work things out and stop doing other things for a while but I just arrived at my parents place and need a rest and something to eat right now :p | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I don't like plans in this set-up because we're considering to plan how someone "votes" in this set-up. I'd like everyone to do whatever he wants to do no matter what. This has some drawbacks and some advantages but I'd consider the drawbacks of the other "plans" worse. So here's what it basicly does
And here's the thought behind why that's not bad, although the first phrase sounds bad: I think I'm just fine in figuring people out I know. I don't care wethe or not people like Kita+Gonzaw, Greymist or Mattchew get to do whatever they want, I will figure them out soon enough because I think I can get good reads on people I know in general. If let's say Greymist for example chooses to not attack at all and just block that's going to be ovious, same goes for everyone else. Also it's good information about the newer guys because they have to come up with something themselves and we everyone can check if what they say makes sense given their situation (being new for example). However, if we force people to attack all the same guy (Kita's plan) we lose explanations that would be given otherwise. You could probably still figure out the guys who have been playing here longer than the rest because those guys would probably be the ones leading the discussion but I'd have a huge problem figuring out someone who posts nothing and just sheeps one of us. If we force people to attack no matter what (S&B's plan) we force people to make bad decicions. I didn't like Supersoft telling people "shoot someone or I'll shoot you in 5 minutes" in Ace's game for a reason. People end up doing bad calls in those situations, ESPECIALLY if we're talking about townies, ESPECIALLY if we're talking about new townies. Again, I'd have a huge problem figuring out all the guys, but this time because I can see people doing mistakes way more often than usually because of that situation. The thing here is that a "do whatever you consider to be smart" strategy probably is nice for mafia the first 2 or 3 cycles because as mentioned they can do whatever they want, however we will hold people accountable for their actions and something like in mafia LV where we simply had to lynch into an entity of something like 10 unreadable guys won't happen again. In that game we had huge issues not because of strong mafia vets but because of a mass of unreadable new guys. If we tell the guys we consider to be hard to read because we don't know what's going on in their heads what to do no matter what we're giving ourselves a really hard time. We can figure out the vets no matter of strategy, but the other guys need to come up with at least SOMETHING theirselves so that we read them as well. I'll talk about my reads in another post because this one is already so big lol, although they havn't really changed. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If we want to attack Zealos we need to come up with some plan because he has a shitton of stuff to block. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
because I asked people multiple times to stop talking about the set-up and start talking about posts. I did several posts were I mentioned a couple of posts you could talk about in case you don't consider something important. I get this as an answer about my question from him: On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote: If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time. I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers which is incredibly dodgy and is either is complete unwillingness to talk about stuff or him not paying attention. After that I point that out here: + Show Spoiler [clicky!] + On June 26 2012 02:21 WereBugs-Go wrote: yeah but that again is talking about the set-up. Wether or not we should use spells or whatnot. We can't waste another day on talking about how we want to to stuff. I'd rather talk about who gets to be the target for what reason and than talk about how we're doing it. That's why I quoted that one post from Terra to talk about stuff like that. Why are you dodging this one? As I already said I like that one post for a reason. I want to know with what mindset you're playing this game and if you're looking for the same things I am looking for. Apparently the post I quoted did not catch your interest when it should have. He didn't say he dislikes your slivers. He asked why noone else has a problem with something that potentially makes a shitton of your monsters fliers. He's scared about that card of yours. Sure that could be a clever mafia tricking us but do you think a mafia would be scared about something like that? If he was he'd just take you out early on. This looks like a townie being scared to face someone with a shitton of fliers because he thinks he's not prepared for that in the way he'd like to. Or it's a mafia who thinks it's easy to get people on you with a cheap argument if people consider this dangerous as well. Why are you not paying attention to stuff like that? That's why I quoted it because I think it's a post people could have opinions about while all the other "let's talk about mechanics posts" are easy to do no matter of alignment. That post however is either townish influence or mafia influenced and people should be bound to have an opinion about stuff like that. and finally get this as answer: On June 26 2012 02:54 GreYMisT wrote: Why should his post concern me? I read it as someone, mafia or town, who is afraid of a shitton of flying creatures, which is a mechanic actually not seen alot in the standard play these days. In addition, Nova is running green, which traditionally does not have a lot of flying creatures unless he has spiders with reach. The fact is there are any number of reasons that a town player or a mafia player would react that way. What is important is to watch his actions. He has expressed concern over my future power, but hasnt commited to rallying people against me. because his post could be interpreted in so many different ways, including as scared comment from a old magic player familiar with slivers, I choose not to read too much into it until I have more information. In light of Nova's other posts he reads town to me at the moment. he is being a fairly positive communicator. Here is how I will be approaching this game, knowing I am a fairly big focus atm just due to my deck choice. I will play a sliver each turn if able, and I will not hold them back "for the good of the town". why? because think of it this way: by not playing slivers and just building my lands, Town does not know what powers I have in my hand, and it increases my potential of dropping 3 in one turn, surprising the town. I am against withholding information that could be useful to the town, so this is the way I will proceed. This is different than my stance on others deck claiming because deck claiming is not useful for people whose decks have not been revealed. Slivers, unfortunately, don't have much capability to help others, however I do have one in my deck that can. If I have the ability to play Cautery Sliver, I will above any other. I never asked wether or not the post concerns him. I said it's a nice post as in it could be interpreted in two ways so far although I was leaning town as it was the easier explanation. After I point out how he just dodged my question he answers this and it is a somewhat decent answer but he could have just said so in the first place when we're trying to start a conversation. There's no reason to hold back when we're having troubles to get a conversation starting and he's doing that. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:43 Oberyn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [...] + Oberyn was attacked by the Mafia Creature and has taken 8 damage. Cool I can't summon creatures this round either....lol Mafia could just attack me directly and kill me this turn >_> + Show Spoiler [...] + But well first things first: ##Cast: Island On June 28 2012 00:25 Nova_Terra wrote: either he will lose them or he will lose health EHmm...I doubt he'd decide to lose health..specially if everybody attacks him at the same time (the spirit of the thread seems to imply that). So yeah, he'd most likely block, meaning that this turn would be lost. I could help with that with AEther Spellbomb for instance (I take away one of his monsters)....but that is town coordination which is exactly what I was saying we should do back in T1 (i.e it's not everybody doing things independently and doing whatever they want) lacking mana for a 4 mana thing or no creatures? You got attacked by mafia and if they attack you again you're on 2 HP right? That would give you one more turn to do something, so maybe it would be a good idea to give you mana if that helps. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:51 Oberyn wrote: Well...I can summon, but I need 4 mana, and I only have 3 lands. I can summon a creature if someone lends me a mana.. ...I still don't know what to do though, since I'd like to have a spare blue mana, to use AEther Spellbomb in the Attack Phase. same here. I'm still having a creature I could play for 3 mana but I only have 1 island left so I'd need 2 more mana to play it but you got shot so I could give you my mana as well. I have an aether spellbomb in play as well but I'm not really planning on using it this very turn for a reason So if I can't play that creature (getting 2 mana is prooobably pretty unlikely :p ) I'm not going to use that island and could spare it. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
That's the issue right now | ||
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