Many changes are going to be happening this season, including restructuring, administrational changes. I have dry-tested some of these features, but will explain in detail what they will be below.
The venue is not changing! We love Overklocked Gaming & Computers and plan on working with them for a long time! Information for Overklocked can be found here:
The Entrance Fee for Tournaments is set at $30/event. Given the amount of gaming that you are getting, along with the on-site barcraft, this seems a fair price! For people concerned about the price, please read over All the information, and then contact me!
Yellow- First in Group Orange- Seeded by qualifiers Green- From Code X Teal- Drop down based on group position
Code S will specifically follow the MLG system. 16 qualified players will be seeded into round robin groups, with two additional ones seeded from Code X. This round robin will determine your placement in the championship bracket, which will be a Bo3 single elimination series.
There will be no extended series, with the exception of the finals. which will be a bo5 with a bo9 extended series. In other words, the set is a bo5, which turns into a bo9 with the score of the bo5 in the case that the lower bracket player wins the first bo5.
Example: SaroVati (upper bracket) plays MKENGYN (Lower bracket). MKENGYN wins the first set 3-1. The set becomes a bo9 (first to 5) with the score of 3-1 already established. I feel this is fair to the upper bracket winner b/c of the reduced necessity to win games, but fair to the lower bracket player b/c it rewards him for a good first showing.
The other change is as follows: In order to reduce wait time, the winner of each group will be seeded into a round robin group, where the first place will be seeded into the grand final, second place seeded into the lower bracket final, and third/fourth seeded to the lower bracket semi-final.
All players from Plat-Masters not already seeded into Code S will be seeded into GSL style groups (aka Duel Tournament Groups), where the top two will either advance to a secondary GSL group, or directly into Code S (depending on turnout). The bottom two players from the first and second (if necessary) groups will be seeded into the first round of the Championship Bracket, where they will play until eliminated.
Championship Bracket is a single elimination bracket.
Yellow- Round Robin Groups Orange- "Funday Monday" Restriction Games Green- 2v2 Games Teal- Random Team Monobattles
Code A has the biggest overhaul of any system. While the competitive aspect has been retained, the system as a whole has been overhauled in order to accommodate casual players along with people looking to compete.
First of all, instead of there being a single tournament, there will be Four Methods of competition in Code A, colour coordinated, of course!
Yellow For those who want a 'true' tournament experience, Yellow will feature either a Round Robin tournament, or a Double Elimination Tournament (based on turnout). Round Robin Groups will be divided into groups based on ladder ranking (silver w/ silver, bronze w/ bronze). Winners of the Groups willbe seeded into a small 3 man Group to determine the ultimate champion!
Group Sizes will be determined by how many people are in that league (ie, there are 3 groups, no matter what). All matches are going to be bo3, and the ladder pool will be used (with the adition of Metropolis), with both players able to veto 3 maps (leaving 4 maps--> 11maps-1starting-3player1-3player2=4.
However, in the interest of speed, players will submit their vetoes at the start of the tournament, and these will be active for the duration of the matches.
The loser of the most previous game will choose the next map.
Orange
This will be a series of games between two people, each of whom will have a "Funday Monday"-esque restriction placed on them. These will be randomly drawn from a hat (and will be race specific), with 5Zerg, 5Protoss, 5Terran, and 10General, for a total of 15 possible restrictions per race. Admins will check that the restrictions do not auto-lose the game for one player. Otherwise the players are free to keep their restrictions secret.
Platinum players that are eliminated early are welcome here, but will be more likely given stricter restrictions vs lower league players to balance out the game. If Diamond players want to play, expect BRUTAL restrictions (eg, no units as zerg, only t3, etc), or to have 2 restrictions.
Green
Any two players who want to participate in a 2v2 can sign up either as a "Looking for Team", or as a pre-made Team. Teams will be ranked based on your ladder 2v2 ranking, with pre-mades having a slightly higher edge. Teams will be arranged both on player availability and player ranking.
Platinum/Diamond 1v1 players are free to join, but will be matched so the skill disparity is not obvious across teams. Pre-mades consisting of one or two dia/plat 1v1 players are free to sign up, but will only be matched up against players under the consent of the other team.
I am toying with the idea of using non-awful 2v2 maps that are made by the community. I have linked several posts of maps I consider well made for 2v2. Please let me know whether you would like these new maps, or stick to the Blizzard Map Pool.
Poll: 2v2 Map Pool?
Community maps are fine! (4)
67%
Blizzard Map Pool Only! (2)
33%
6 total votes
Your vote: 2v2 Map Pool?
(Vote): Community maps are fine! (Vote): Blizzard Map Pool Only!
Everyone is welcome, and we will be using whatever everyone agrees is the best mod/maps. Please suggest them bellow.
But how does this figure into competition!?
It will work on a points system- people who win games in each colour will get a set amount of points, and this will accumulate, so that people who choose to play one particular style will still have a chance to get a prize. More points shall be allocated to the 1v1 tournament, and less to the monobattles, but everyone will have a chance at prizes, no matter what you choose to participate in.
What Can I Play in?
Anything! When you come in, you will register with the admins, noting specifically what you want to play in, and the order of willingness to play in other game types. For instance, if Johny Bronze registers, he will say he wants to play in Yellow most, orange second, teal third, and does not want to participate in green. Timmy Silver might register and say he wants to play in orange, green, teal, in declining order, but not in yellow.
Players will then get tags showing what they are participating in, so that if they are not playing games, they can gather with people who want to play similar game types.
There will be a more regimented and organized casting set-up this time around. Casting will cover primarily Code S, but games from other categories will slip in here or there. Along with optimized casting, there will be a barcraft set-up for people wishing to spectate. There will be one localized TV, and several smaller ones, hosting games from the tournament.
If you wish to come only for the Barcraft Segment, then it will cost $5 for the night and include a concession item. This means that you will be paying OKG only a few dollars for a night of Barcrafty fun! If you participate in the tournament, you will not be charged if you choose to stay and watch.
Alongside the concession, there will be a selection of restaurants that will be taking delivery orders (such as Oodle Noodle).
For Players: Those of you participating in Code S should always come ask an Admin about wait times for games, and, unless there is a copious amount of wait time, should not participate in any Monobattles/other activities.
Those of you in Code X/eliminated early are free to join whatever games you wish after you have finished your tournament run. Stay as long as you wish!
Those of you in Code A. Because of the nature of your tournament, alongside the more regimented nature of Code S/X, there may be some wait-time between games. Hopefully this will not exceed 30 minutes, and if it does, please tell an admin, who will prioritize your games. However, with the simultaneous Barcraft, there should be few issues of Boredom! You will be guaranteed a whole day of games!
I want to participate in the tournament I am running. However, in order that I am able to do so, I must ensure complete stability of the environment around me. The following measures will be set in place, and if they are not completed, I will step away from playing and handle the administrative duties.
Firstly, there will be an admin for Code S/X, and at least two for Code A. These people will be compensated monetarily (in some small way) for their efforts. If you are interested, please come talk to me.
Secondly, there will be a live-update bracket on Team Liquid. What this means is that players will be responsible for the reporting of their own matches. While admins will be available, if players report their matches on TL, it will stream-line the entire process, giving admins less grind work, and allow them to focus on any issues that might arise.
Thirdly, OKG computers will be split into Code Allocations, where players from a certain code will be seated for the duration of a tournament. If you have your own gear, I encourage that you get accustomed with moving places when you are not playing. These divisions will be marked in information packages made available to players at the tournament (which will have other information such as map-pools, starting maps, etc).
IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING CODE S QUALIFIERS READ THIS IF YOU WANT TO BE IN CODE S
There will be Qualifiers held for Code S. These will be based ONLINE, with the top 16 players from all the qualifiers seeded into groups. There will be at least 2 qualifiers. This is a free event. If you qualify for the main event, you will be required to pay a REDUCED entry fee of $25 BEFORE the event, to ensure that Code S is stable.
The first Qualifier is going to be on Saturday, June 8 at 6pm. Feel free to come down to OKG and hang out/watch MLG Spring Championship with me and some others.
The second Qualifier wil be on Sunday, June 9, at 6pm (after the MLG Championship Finals). If there is interest for any other dates/date changes, please let me know and I will make it happen.
If there are only 2 qualifiers, the top 8 from both qualifiers will form the 16 man Code S, if 3, the Top 5 will be taken, with a wildcard spot awarded. Feel free to sign up here: Saturday Qualifiers Sunday Qualifiers Note that MintyStone and myself may actually not compete, I was just required to submit at least 2 names before I could open the tournament to the public. Tournament will be Bo3, Double Elimination
Dates for the Summer Season Tournaments are being finalized right now, but expect there to be at least 1 tournament in June, July, August, and September (before school). The July or August tournament will include a ticket to MLG Raleigh.
Overall I really like the changes, things look good. Of course though I have some questions and figured here was as good a place as any. (In decreasing order of importance).
____________________________________________
Code S last paragraph;
DYEAlabaster wrote: The other change is as follows: In order to reduce wait time, the winner of each group will be seeded into a round robin group, where the first place will be seeded into the grand final, second place seeded into the lower bracket final, and third/fourth seeded to the lower bracket semi-final.
I was hoping you could explain this further as I don't really get what portion of the bracket you are referring to with this segment. ____________________________________________
You show the % of the prize pool that players will be cutting out of (in Code S) but there is no reference to the amount that could be attributed to the prize pool per player. With the set up that I am used to there is 'generally' a 10$ amount of the buy-in to admin/venue costs and assuming a large event (60 people) the prize pool would be 1280$ =(16*25)+(44*30) + Show Spoiler [theoretical distribution] +
1st-640 2nd-320 3rd-128 4th-64 5th/6th- 25 or 30?
I would also like to note that the prize for 5/6th should be better defined as you do have more then one buy-in (prepay for code S is 25) Keep in mind that the prize pool is complete theory and just described to illustrate a point, I have no idea the actual break down for the buy-in -> prizepool. (I would love that to be defined though) ____________________________________________
Online Qualifiers Lastly I have a couple questions about the Online qualifiers and the prepay.
You mention that there may be a third qualifier with would reduce the number of places that each qualifier would award. Firstly how/when would you determine if a third qualifier is required?
In the case of the third qualifier being required what criteria would you use to choose the wild card position AND it seems like alot of games will needed to played out extra to ascertain the line at 5/6th place in case of the third qualifier.
I would also like to voice some assumptions I am making when it comes to the Qualifiers that should be addressed in the main post. Firstly you make no mention of the style of the tournament although the bracket on Challonge is labeled a double elim bracket, so I am assuming that is correct. I am also assuming bo3's throughout the qualifier with random seeding. ____________________________________________
Map Pool
DYEAlabaster wrote: Maps- ESV Cloud Kingdom LE (Strategy) ESV Ohana LE (Rush) GSL Daybreak (Standard) GSL Metropolis (Macro)
The starting map for each set will be a rotation of the non-strategy maps. In other words...
I like the idea of a smaller map pool for Code S & X; with that said I have a possible concern and a 2 Questions about it.
1. Why don't you start rounds on Cloud Kingdom? 2. In the finals Bo5 or Bo9 how will you determine the map order?
With such few maps (and no rule to the effect) in a bo3 players will be repeating maps if no rule is set to avoid that. (obviously in a Bo5 or greater there will be no avoiding repeats.) This IMO is not optimal. ____________________________________________
Barcraft
DYEAlabaster wrote: If you wish to come only for the Barcraft Segment, then it will cost $5 for the night and include a concession item. This means that you will be paying OKG only a few dollars for a night of Barcrafty fun! If you participate in the tournament, you will not be charged if you choose to stay and watch.
This implies that you are renting the entire facility, is this true or am I free to come and play other games while the tournament is going on? ie. are you telling me there is a 5$ entry fee? ____________________________________________
I would like to finish all this off with a Kudos and congratulations, You are portraying the image of progress and that is a step in the right direction.
PS- You never said how potential admins might contact you about achieving the position.
Hope that wasn't too TLDR for the rest of you, issues should be address publicly since we have seen how shit goes when it is left to private individuals to adjust shit.
GLHF I'm gonna wreck some shit.
oh, I forgot to mention my question about prepay for those top16 qualified. Deadlines for when you will replace unpaid people and what means they should use to pay.
I was hoping you could explain this further as I don't really get what portion of the bracket you are referring to with this segment.
In regular MLG style, the winner of each group gets seeded into a winners semi-final. Instead of doing that, The winner of each group will be seeded into a Winner's Round Robin. The seeding will work identically to how MLG seeds their winners- third fourth go into the loser's semifinal, second goes into the loser's final, and first goes onto the grand final.
I hope that clears up any confusion. The only reason for the RR is so that first place finishers have less wait time between matches
____________________________________________
You show the % of the prize pool that players will be cutting out of (in Code S) but there is no reference to the amount that could be attributed to the prize pool per player. With the set up that I am used to there is 'generally' a 10$ amount of the buy-in to admin/venue costs and assuming a large event (60 people) the prize pool would be 1280$ =(16*25)+(44*30) + Show Spoiler [theoretical distribution] +
1st-640 2nd-320 3rd-128 4th-64 5th/6th- 25 or 30?
I would also like to note that the prize for 5/6th should be better defined as you do have more then one buy-in (prepay for code S is 25) Keep in mind that the prize pool is complete theory and just described to illustrate a point, I have no idea the actual break down for the buy-in -> prizepool. (I would love that to be defined though)
5/6 will have $30 returned to them, regardless of what they paid to play $10 from every ticket will be used to pay venue. $17 from every ticket will be used for the prize pool (in the case of $25 tickets, $2 will be added to keep consistency. $3 from every ticket will be used to help keep the events running, as before. 17*60= 1160. However, your theoretical distribution is correct- In the case of "weird' numbers (128, 64, they will be rounded to the nearest number divisible by 5) ____________________________________________
Online Qualifiers Lastly I have a couple questions about the Online qualifiers and the prepay.
You mention that there may be a third qualifier with would reduce the number of places that each qualifier would award. Firstly how/when would you determine if a third qualifier is required?
In the case of the third qualifier being required what criteria would you use to choose the wild card position AND it seems like alot of games will needed to played out extra to ascertain the line at 5/6th place in case of the third qualifier.
I would also like to voice some assumptions I am making when it comes to the Qualifiers that should be addressed in the main post. Firstly you make no mention of the style of the tournament although the bracket on Challonge is labeled a double elim bracket, so I am assuming that is correct. I am also assuming bo3's throughout the qualifier with random seeding.
Qualifiers will be just as you stated- edited that into the main OP b/c I forgot to mention it, thanks. I would like to, ideally, have an even number of qualifiers played, b/c that will eliminate much of the problems that you outlined. If 4 are run, top 4 are decided in a DEBracket, which would reduce the number of games necessary. ____________________________________________
Map Pool
DYEAlabaster wrote: Maps- ESV Cloud Kingdom LE (Strategy) ESV Ohana LE (Rush) GSL Daybreak (Standard) GSL Metropolis (Macro)
The starting map for each set will be a rotation of the non-strategy maps. In other words...
I like the idea of a smaller map pool for Code S & X; with that said I have a possible concern and a 2 Questions about it.
1. Why don't you start rounds on Cloud Kingdom?
"Strategy" Maps are those that require a different playstyle, and, while well designed maps, are inherently unbalanced. Crossfire is an excellent example of what happens when a Strategy Map overstays its welcome. I choose to not start on CKLE because of its role in the map pool. It is very obviously different, will require off-beat strategies, and will be played in a manner unlike any other maps (or at least, it should). I personally believe that Strategy maps should NEVER be forced to be played, but only chosen if somebody has made the effort to run through all the intricacies it holds.
Any random player who is moderately good at the game can "pick up and play" the three "regular" maps having never seen them before. However, in order to play CKLE well, you should have something special prepared. It's because of this belief that I think no Strategy maps should be 'forced' play. Obviously it will be played (alot) because many people understand it. However, the precedent I want to set for future tournaments is that strategy maps will be cycled out the fastest. and will truly reward players for innovative thinking and dedication.
I would have no chagrin starting on CKLE at present because of the ubiquity of the map. However, in future tournaments, if 'new' or other Strategy maps are implemented, then they will hold the same place as CKLE. Expect to have the "regular" maps for quite a while, but Strategy maps will only stay 1 season (at most). Once a strategy map is "figured out" it quickly heads down imbalance road and turns into fuck-this-map street.
2. In the finals Bo5 or Bo9 how will you determine the map order? The For the finals, the Players will take turn picking map order, starting with the winner's bracket player. Repetitions will only be allowed once you run out of maps. For instance- Saro vs MK Saro picks CKLE MK picks Ohana Saro picks Metro MK picks Daybreak Saro picks Ohana ------------------------- MK picks CKLE Saro picks Metro MK picks Daybreak Saro picks CKLE
The line denotes the separation b/w bo5 and bo9 Great question, thanks!
With such few maps (and no rule to the effect) in a bo3 players will be repeating maps if no rule is set to avoid that. (obviously in a Bo5 or greater there will be no avoiding repeats.) This IMO is not optimal.
A ruling about not repeating maps in a bo3 has been written in, thanks for the clarification. ____________________________________________ This implies that you are renting the entire facility, is this true or am I free to come and play other games while the tournament is going on? ie. are you telling me there is a 5$ entry fee?
As before, the Red Room will be reserved for "walk-ins". In the past, people wishing to come and spectate have been able to do so for free. With the optimization of casting, watching, and playing, however, a $5 surcharge does not seem to be too much to ask, especially given a free concession item. All remaining revenue will go to OKG (if you buy a $3 chocolate, OKG will get $2 back from it. ____________________________________________
I would like to finish all this off with a Kudos and congratulations, You are portraying the image of progress and that is a step in the right direction.
PS- You never said how potential admins might contact you about achieving the position.
Info Edited into OP.
Thanks! Your concerns have really helped clarify alot of things ^^
Thanks for the response, I still have a couple things I'd like to point out as they weren't addressed by you in your reply or were unclear.
How would you like a potential admin to contact you?
Could you give a practical example of how the Code S Round Robin System is going to work, it seems very ambiguous still. I understand the MLG bracket idea and as of yet I don't get how yours achieves what it is intended while saving time.
As for you defining the maps in certain roles that seems fine while IMO inaccurate for the maps you dictated in the roles. The idea of having limited turnover in the map pool is good and if this is where you start I'm all for it.
PS- if you intend to have each 'horizontal' part of the championship bracket be a Round Robin group I would like to let you know that by doing that you eliminate the reward from winning the previous group and it would be actually beneficial for players to just lose all the games in the previous group 0-2 so that they can go into the champ bracket fresh. I might be wrong, but I just thought maybe that was your intention.
As sick as this would be to go to, am I going to get my play time worth of cash? I payed last time for the tournament, and for the day pass being told I would be able to game or practice while waiting. That didn't happen.
I waited 2.5 hours to play a game. Once I started I left the computer for a second to use the washroom, while in party with my opponent and someone unhooked all my stuff and started to play on the computer in the middle of my BO3. When I said something, I was told to fuck off, ect, ect.
If i remember correctly I was pretty high in my group. 2 matches left to the finals or semi in code X (that was for the gold and plats right?) or something. Waited another few hours till about midnight and came up, explained the situation, told there was nothing to be done, so I just left. We were that large group (about 5 people) who came to chat with you. I have you on skype and if bringing stuff up like this private is what you want then I would gladly do that.
Tbh and not looking for people to feel sorry, the last tournament was one of the reasons SC2 fell off for me. After finishing school and spending my two weeks before starting FT at work again practicing hard for the tournament, just to get up and leave because nothing was managed was a let down. If I can't go to a hometown tournament with 128 people or whatever it is, why try to go pro in something? How is dreamhack or MLG with 1000's of people managed? Do I wait till Sunday to play. I know there is exaggerating, it's just how I felt at the time.
Now for the lazy people!
TL;DR
Nick is a pretty straight forward honest guy. He's pretty cool and has been working and reworking this tournament for everyone around. Tbh if I can get my ass off Diablo 3 and LoL, I may get back in practice and attend this, though last time I really played was the end of February. If i am not attending I wish the best of luck to everyone who goes, and let everyone know about the new experience. I wish the best!
Saturday, June 8 at 6pm hmmm ima take it you mean june 9th and 10th
and fusik im sure youll get at least what you put in, nicks tounrys last alll day long
also from my experience no one in the edmonton community would say fuck off after you try to tell them that they stole your computer >< who was it?
the last tourny was a quickly thrown together thing from nick that he was honestly considering just canceling but since the community said they wanted it regardless of the quality he went forward with it, the ones before that allt ran extremely well becides a hiccup here or there.
On June 05 2012 13:15 Fusik wrote: As sick as this would be to go to, am I going to get my play time worth of cash? I payed last time for the tournament, and for the day pass being told I would be able to game or practice while waiting. That didn't happen.
I waited 2.5 hours to play a game. Once I started I left the computer for a second to use the washroom, while in party with my opponent and someone unhooked all my stuff and started to play on the computer in the middle of my BO3. When I said something, I was told to fuck off, ect, ect.
If i remember correctly I was pretty high in my group. 2 matches left to the finals or semi in code X (that was for the gold and plats right?) or something. Waited another few hours till about midnight and came up, explained the situation, told there was nothing to be done, so I just left. We were that large group (about 5 people) who came to chat with you. I have you on skype and if bringing stuff up like this private is what you want then I would gladly do that.
Tbh and not looking for people to feel sorry, the last tournament was one of the reasons SC2 fell off for me. After finishing school and spending my two weeks before starting FT at work again practicing hard for the tournament, just to get up and leave because nothing was managed was a let down. If I can't go to a hometown tournament with 128 people or whatever it is, why try to go pro in something? How is dreamhack or MLG with 1000's of people managed? Do I wait till Sunday to play. I know there is exaggerating, it's just how I felt at the time.
Now for the lazy people!
TL;DR
Nick is a pretty straight forward honest guy. He's pretty cool and has been working and reworking this tournament for everyone around. Tbh if I can get my ass off Diablo 3 and LoL, I may get back in practice and attend this, though last time I really played was the end of February. If i am not attending I wish the best of luck to everyone who goes, and let everyone know about the new experience. I wish the best!
I completely understand your sadness and frustration over the tournament format, iirc your group was the one that was most affected by the disorganization, and I apologize.
Because of what happened at that tournament, this tournament has some very severe differences!
Code A now has several reserved computers, and will be starting cocurrently with Code X (with Code S delayed slightly) Code A now has 4 different game styles, which basically comes down to the idea that people will no longer be waiting on SPECIFIC players, but can get up and play with anyone, at any time. Because of the necessary organization of Code S/X, the different available styles of games for Code A allow people to snake in games here and there without waiting on specific players. Got some time before your next RR game- why don't you grab a friend and play a "Funday Monday" game? Got a group of 4 people, play a 2v2, etc ^^
Finally, even if there is some downtime between games, being at the lan will be a much more friendly environment. There will be 2 streams constantly running games on the two large TVs, with couches, food, and such in an organized manner that it will resemble a Barcraft. Want to take a break from playing games? Grab a couch, order some food, and watch the best players duke it out. Want to try your hand at casting? Well, one of the streams will be a "casting couch" style stream, meaning that anyone can come in and cast!
With the less strict progression of Code A, more out-of-game activities, and a greater Barcraft feel, you will be guaranteed to get a whole day of play, and not be boring with waiting a little between games. That being said, you will never be asked to wait more than about 45 minutes, unless you want to.
There will also be 2 Code A specific Admins that will work directly with you guys to make sure no issues like this time happens again! Hope this helps
Thanks for the response, I still have a couple things I'd like to point out as they weren't addressed by you in your reply or were unclear.
How would you like a potential admin to contact you?
PM, Skype (Nicholas.Siennicki)
Could you give a practical example of how the Code S Round Robin System is going to work, it seems very ambiguous still. I understand the MLG bracket idea and as of yet I don't get how yours achieves what it is intended while saving time.
Working on an explanation video for you guys, but basically- you get first place finishers from each group play in a round robin instead of a winners semi-final. It doesn't save time, just gives first place finishers something to do while waiting.
As for you defining the maps in certain roles that seems fine while IMO inaccurate for the maps you dictated in the roles. The idea of having limited turnover in the map pool is good and if this is where you start I'm all for it.
CKLE is a strategy map, meanwhile being pretty figured out. In the future, different strat maps will be used, but for now, I am going with the 'go to' standard strat map
PS- if you intend to have each 'horizontal' part of the championship bracket be a Round Robin group I would like to let you know that by doing that you eliminate the reward from winning the previous group and it would be actually beneficial for players to just lose all the games in the previous group 0-2 so that they can go into the champ bracket fresh. I might be wrong, but I just thought maybe that was your intention.
It's just like the MLG format... the better you place in RR, the better you get seeded in the champ bracket.
So just the top1 from each group will be placed into the Round robin group.
I would be interested to see if the past top finishers would like to have this since it will guarantee that they will play the same top level opponents an additional time. I'll see if I can get some opinions on the matter and get back to you.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YRpqr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xOy9c.jpg)
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