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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
/in | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
It seems impossible to win for the Crazy Fiend. He can only lose by being lynched, but damn with only 1 bullet it makes it quite hard for him. Also, if scum ever shoot him, they can be dicks and out him or something; like right before one of those scum get lynched, they say "Hey! I'm scum, we shot [guy] and he didn't die, he's SK please kill him for us" or something. That would be a downer for the poor guy | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 04 2012 17:16 EchelonTee wrote: That's pretty poor ettiquete, I would say, and isn't optimal play either.. Scum COULD do that, but realistically, the SK wants the scum to live so that they will shoot up town for them. Therefore, scum benefit from having SK around. No, if it's 4-2-1 or something like that then it's kind of optimal for them to do that (in which case the scum getting lynched would force a 2-1 LYLO instead of a 2-1-1 or something and having the SK around) | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:33 chaoser wrote: how can town be sure the person mafia points at is actually the fiend? On June 05 2012 06:33 Radfield wrote: A better play is for scum to pin it on some shmuck townie instead. That way town lynches the shmuck, and there is still another anti-town player in the game to muddle the waters. Mafia need the SK lynched to win, that's a fact. The SK is bulletproof, so he can only die by lynch. If scum already shot the SK and know his identity, AND one of them is being lynched; then depending on the situation (again for instance a 4-2-1 situation) they can out the SK so: -The remaining scum survives the next day 100% -They already fulfill their win con of killing the SK -If the SK hasn't used his bullet yet, he has less chance of shooting one of them the less he lives Imagine it's 4-2-1, and 1 scum gets lynched, and right before getting lynched he outs the SK (of course there in a previous night there was no night kills at all). Would you really think he'd lie? Let's analyze it (lets assume town will follow the plan): -If he tells the truth: It will be 4-1-1 at night, 3-1-1 at day. They lynch the outed guy, who flips SK. It's 3-1 at night, 2-1 at day, LYLO for both scum and town, and both can win -If he lies: It will be 4-1-1 at night, 3-1-1 at day. They lynch the outed guy, flips town. It's 2-1-1 at night, 1-1-1 at day, kingmaker scenario (and a draw I guess) Why would scum lie to force a kingmaker scenario? They wouldn't so they tell the truth and outted the SK In Arkham Asylum they did in fact out the Joker, even thought everybody thought they were lying. At times it's better for scum to kill the 3rd party than keep them around to fuck town up some more. It boils down to a struggle between 2 factions (for scum). If they think the SK faction is more dangerous than the Town faction, then they can do that without problems. Maybe similar situations like that can happen, maybe in a 5-2-1 situation as well, or something. In that case the Fiend is fucked | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 07 2012 10:00 Radfield wrote: Gonzaw, it looks like you've been around for the least amount of time on the Mafia Forum. I expect you to do the heavy lifting  I don't expect me to do the "heavy lifting", I expect me to win  I like this game because if I'm town I won't get likely shot N1 (that would be you Rad!  ).Playing til endgame as town -> Dream of mine | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
As you can see, I'm the Lover in love with the Town Idiot, and I'll.... ...wait wat | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Also Crazy Fiend you are done for as well. Uruguay is playing, after the game ends I'll read and shit. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 10 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: In theory, removing scum's ability to influence the lynch by agreeing as a town to lynch by RNG, there's a higher chance of actually hitting scum with the lynch (no scum argumentation, no scum voting influence)...and the chances aren't bad for hitting scum randomly. In theory. I can never bring myself to trust whatever method the town decides to pick the lynch, and so feel I'm being manipulated anyway. *shrug* So, this is a game with all the "greatest mafia players of this site", where 8 of them are town, yet you think there's a higher chance of hitting scum randomly than by analysis of those "great" players? Why the fuck are some people even considering RNG at all? chaoser, what's up bro? On June 11 2012 03:37 Radfield wrote: That's not how you RNG. You RNG based on something verifiable, and then everyone follows the result. For instance, Detroit play Cincinnati tonight(mlb). So you assign everyone a number of hits. Then, however many hits there are in that game, that player gets lynched. Hits are a good RNG, because they vary in quite a range, and the average is probably around 17/18 hits per game. Because players near the average are more likely to get lynched, you run it like a snake: 17 gonzaw ---- avg 17.5 hits or so? Sorry puppy, I was NEVER lynched in any game in TL, even in the 4 games I was scum, and I will certainly not get lynched this game. On June 10 2012 08:25 Radfield wrote: In other news we could RNG a lynch. Ace, Palmar! GOGOGO! On June 10 2012 09:00 Radfield wrote: Can you hit me with the actual reasoning behind an RNG lynch. I honestly don't understand the benefit. Okay, I doubt this is a scumslip or anything and you just did it as a joke or something, but just for confirmation: Why did you propose a RNG but then oppose one? On June 10 2012 09:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: No, I meant because you both want to lynch Ace. :p Unless you love Ace as well, and then maybe Rad is just jealous, and is trying to kill Ace to steal you away from him. Isn't the idea behind RNG that we have nothing to talk about, so it provides a talking point, and that it makes mafia sweat, because they have no control over it, so if you decide to lynch a scum they'll freak out and the reaction will be enough to lynch them anyways? Yes, perhaps the purpose of the RNG thing is in fact that. Why don't you follow your own advice and talk about it then? What's your stance on it? Okay people, let me put up an alternative for RNG, actual analysis influenced lynch: Okay, first of all I want to say something: Don't let D1 behaviour be the "end all" to determine who is scum or not!! Scum have it so freaking easy to be pro-town on D1 it's not funny (trust me, I know). If you have a town read on D1, I suggest that by D2-D3 you get completely rid of it and re-analyze the player without taking that into account. But, it's D1 and we need to start somewhere, so I'll try to start on players that I think may try to blend in: Greymist: On June 10 2012 08:31 GreYMisT wrote: Sup guys, i'm the 4th round invite. looking forward to a game which is both full of analysis, fun, and not 80page long day 1's This already set up some red flags. He says he's eager for a game full of analysis. However, as you can see with all his posts since then he focuses 100% of his attention on discussing the RNG deal...yet I don't see any analysis anywhere. If he was town I'd think he'd try to get some analysis himself by now, and not just idle chat with people, making his filter larger with uninteresting stuff. Wiggles: Because of that post from above. He tells us that perhaps the RNG talk is just there to create discussion and make "mafia sweat"; however he doesn't discuss anything about it himself. It seems like he just wanted to say "something pro-town" and say something that would make him fit; but he didn't really care about what he actually said and didn't follow the implicit advise he proposed with it. Anyways, Greymist posted more "fluff" while seeming more eager to make analysis, so my vote is on him for now. ##Vote: Greymist So people, discuss. Of course, like I said I just want to find the "suspicious" behaviour that I could see one of these "great players" make as scum. It's possible Palmar will be trolling again as scum and just focus 100% of his attention on RNG and that site as well; it's possible Heymir is scum and will lurk the game away. It's possible Rad is setting up his usual "most pro-town player D1" meta as scum by initiating discussion about something irrelevant with finding scum. So I'm awaiting the responses from those 3 the most. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Well, hey scum! If you ever shoot the CF and you are getting lynched, could you out his identity to us before you get lynched? Here read this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558¤tpage=3#46 | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:06 Palmar wrote: There is no 100% of attention to be focused on a site that's already ready, and if we RNG by it I won't be awake to make the timing call nor see the result until next morning. so you're creating shit that doesn't exist. I do find it hilarious that you guys are the most "experienced" players in this game but it seems you guys are so frightened of making analysis or something that you want to retort to RNG. Not even in Newbie Games people take RNG seriously, and those are the "noobs" that "are shit at analysing". Last game you played as scum you started tunneling someone that was not too far in the spotlight very early in the game. Last game as scum there were 2 scum factions and for most of the game I believed that the player I was "tunneling" was in fact scum from the other faction Irrelevant. Your entire case on Greymist is that he "posted fluff" which can be said about half the players in the game. Discussing a RNG lynch is by definition fluff, it's only what you do with the information that results from it that can be very helpful. Yes, it is "fluff" and it's not based on analysis, which is what Greymist said he was eager to experience this game. He was the one that said/implied he'd want analysis made this game, which is why I'm holding him accountable alone. VE didn't say he'd want analysis this game, he might just be dicking around on purpose and wanting to dick around on purpose. However Grey said otherwise, so yeah I'm holding him accountable, and I find it suspicious because of it. After Liar Game, in Post-Game Ver/Incognito said that ET made a "statement that he could be held accountable" at the start of D1 (that he'd tunnel sandro if sandro was scummy). They said that taking that statement alone, and his behaviour later in the game he was obvious scum. They also said everybody (except chaoser) completely ignored that. I tried to get the hint and pay close attention to any similar statement made on D1 that can be used to hold that player accountable, which is why I paid close attention to Grey's statement. Do you believe that Greymist has more chance than anyone else in the game to flip scum gonzaw? What do you think about Radfield? For now yes, either him or Wiggles. Most of all, I want to start some meaningful discussion that's not centered on retarded RNG. About Radfield: As soon as the game started, he was the 2nd person to post. He seemed very eager to post, contribute, and get the game going. I find those very positive traits. However, the only discussion he's been part of (where he's been "active" and "contributing" ) was about the RNG deal, and not about trying to actually find scum. That makes him null to me, since like I said, if he was scum he could have easily tried to establish his "D1 town meta" by "pseudo-contributing" about irrelevant stuff, like the RNG deal or the "let's lynch someone we know is dangerous as scum! Let's lynch Ace/Palmar!" deal. However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in  ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread).Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:14 Palmar wrote: Just for the record, I think MZ failed already and I'd be willing to lynch him. Piggybacking on Greymist's thoughts on RNG to express your own thoughts while making sure you're not the original argument for the idea is terrible. Let's do this. I noticed that too; but I wanted to wait and see how he behaves after that. I didn't see any aparent scum motivation with his post, but it's "fishy" enough to keep a close eye on him and see how he acts the remainder of D1. On June 11 2012 06:13 GreYMisT wrote: You accuse me of only posting fluff while I stated I would not be able to do much for all of today. Strawman. I accuse you of not "holding" your end of the deal in that previous post you made. You certainly did have time to discuss the RNG thing instead of analyzing, or at least trying to analyze, so you justifying it by saying "I don't have enough time" is irrelevant. why bring this up now? there has not been a missing KP, nor has there even been a night phase. The only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch. Because I don't want scum to forget about it. After I posted that, I realized that if I was Crazy Fiend this game I'd be fucked However I'm not so it's all cool (just another game mechanic to take advantage of), that way we can try to focus on catching scum alone, and perhaps let scum get rid of the CF themselves (by shooting him+outing him in the thread later). he only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch Right, my only reasoning behind that post was to "get us off track of discussing a lynch", when I was the only that tried to get you people to abandon wasting time with the RNG talk and try to discuss a lynch in the first place You are not doing a good job of defending yourself Greymist. What do you think of Wiggles? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:20 GreYMisT wrote: Rad said the exact same thing in the early game, and has also been talking mostly about RNG lynches. No, Radfield started talking about policy lynching and some stupid shit early game, not about being eager to get some analysis going. So Grey, do you want me to lynch Radfield instead of you then? Why trying to justify yourself by saying "Well Radfield did it too! Why aren't you lynching him?" What are your thoughts btw? you seem to be hesitant to talk about it. Are you talking to me? ... ... I just made 3 gigantic posts with my thoughts on them...what the hell do you mean? Anyways, I don't want to get too eager and clog up the thread like in some other games (Aperture, LI, etc)So people, discuss @Palmar:I don't like you trying to avoid the Grey issue by diverting attention towards MZ (it seems like a scumtell that both of you are scumbuddies). What is your stance on Grey? What about his defense and my other points I made? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:21 GreYMisT wrote: Im afriad im not following this post, can you point out where MZ failed? You should really read the thread instead of asking pointless questions you can easily verify yourself (i.e MZ has like only 2 posts in this whole game, it will take you 5 seconds to filter him and find the post in question). I suggest everybody to re-read filters and the thread occasionally as well. I was having some problems as town lately, mainly unintentionally disrupting the thread, having shitty reads all over the place, not reading the thread enough or thinking critically enough. I'll try to change that this game and see how I fare | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:35 Radfield wrote: Are you referring to me here gonzaw? Because I've only ever been lynched once as town out of 20 or so games. That one lynching was day 1, as by midgame I'm generally either dead or very likely town. I'm down with either a MZ or Greymist lynch at this point. MZ, what in particular made my early play unradfield-like? Well, I only remember Sleeper Cell 2....and that traumatized me for a while >_> What do you think about my case on Grey, his response, and what about Wiggles? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Anyways, I'll most likely keep pressuring him until he convinces me otherwise with some analysis or reads of his own, instead of trying to divert attention off him with strawmen/casting doubt/etc. Radfield, what do you think of Palmar's sudden switch from "Let's RNG, here I even went through all the trouble to set up a site that does all the shit and shit" to "Okay I changed my mind, now I find MZ suspicious and I want to lynch him because of this reason"; when the only thing in between was my case on Greymist/Wiggles? Also, what do you think of Palmar trying to divert attention off my Greymist case and on to MZ, and trying to discredit me as well (by saying that "last time I was scum I tunneled someone that was under the radar" and stuff) | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
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Okay, I doubt this is a scumslip or anything and you just did it as a joke or something, but just for confirmation: Why did you propose a RNG but then oppose one? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
(please read the thread like I asked you to) You also avoided a question I made to you: What do you think of Wiggles? Not only that, but: What do you think of Radfield? Do you think he's scum by the way you cast some suspicion on him? What do you think about Palmar, and his switch from trying to use RNG to ignoring it and voting MZ using "analysis" ? | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On June 11 2012 07:41 GreYMisT wrote: I have been in a car ride from pensacola to north alabama all day, and just got home, have a daypost to write, and have been very busy unpacking, and had a dead phone for most of the trip. You will understand if i am not completely with it at the moment Fair enough. After you get your shit together, I hope for your contributions, and responses to my previous points (don't lurk though!) @Wiggles: Please don't ignore my case on Grey, what do you think of it? I don't like that wall of text of yours that doesn't say anything interesting at all. If you will pull the same "well I'm busy/whatever so I didn't have time to read the thread thoroughly/ or something" card, then you guys really need to state that before making the posts you make. There's no way we can know if you are legitimately busy or are just bored scum posting fluff. On June 11 2012 07:46 Radfield wrote: It's to be expected. I still don't think anyone actually intends to go through with an RNG lynch, but rather uses it as a way to open up Day 1. Well, that's not the answer I was looking for. Yes, I doubt anybody would have pushed the RNG lynch for too long...but I'm asking for your thoughts on the timing of it. I noticed it too, but it's a bit simplistic to draw any conclusions based off that. Either way, I'm happy having attention on both of them for now. If you had to choose a lynch between Palmar, Greymist and Meapak right now, who would you choose and why him instead of one of the other 2? About VE: Yes, him stance on RNG is weird, but I don't really find that suspicious. Mostly because he seemed too eager to post, and I didn't find that his discussion about RNG made him suspicious because of it. Like I say in some previous games, the exact opinion of people regarding RNG, policy lynches, etc does nothing to indicate their alignment (unless they are too crazy about it); but what does is how that affects their behaviour throughout the day. For instance, someone trying to discuss RNG throughout the whole D1 could indicate their alignment. Because of that I want contributions from him first to gauge his alignment, preferably on Greymist, Wiggles and Palmar. @Hesmyrr: I'd really like your opinion on Grey (after reading my case and his response) As of now, I'd support a lynch on either Palmar or Greymist, or maybe Wiggles (reasons stated before). I won't jump on a VE nor MZ lynch until they come, defend themselves and contribute something unrelated to RNG. About chaoser: My gut says he's town, because of his eagerness to make the 1st post and just "screw around" with the RNG idea. I don't think he would even vote for someone based on RNG if he was scum and put himself in the spotlight like that. Again...waiting for him to contribute with something unrelated to RNG. | ||
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