EPTAlso Crazy Fiend you are done for as well.
Uruguay is playing, after the game ends I'll read and shit.
iGrok's Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia - Page 9
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Also Crazy Fiend you are done for as well. Uruguay is playing, after the game ends I'll read and shit. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm down with Palmar's plan if I can wrap my brain around it. It seems to be displaying everyone's name, is it randomizing the order and we just lynch who's at the top or what? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 11 2012 04:17 Palmar wrote: And I didn't think you were dumb enough to not understand why and how. I'm dumb enough to not understand all sorts of things. But I'm smart enough to listen when people explain things to me. You used to be Day 1 scum hunter extraordinaire, yet now your pushing RNG which gives you only straight odds of hitting scum. It also reduces information gained due to forcing votes. It also gives you an equal chance of hitting a player who is an asset. Typically the worst a Day 1 mislynch does is clear out some of the chaff, but RNG doesn't even do that. I'm not even strongly against an RNG, and I'm interested to see it actually used in a game... but I really don't see how it generates any more benefit than a standard lynch. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Fweeaky. Anyway, hypothetically what would your thoughts be on using Palmar's program as a means to arrive at two CANDIDATES for lynch (the top and bottom of the list it generates) and lynching between them? In that way, we arrive at the two candidates randomly and we still get to pick the scummiest of two candidates rather than lynching truly randomly? Or does that remove the point of the RNG lynch entirely? | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On June 11 2012 05:34 VisceraEyes wrote: There's a happy coincidence - when I came into the thread and expressed my willingness to follow Palmar's algorithm, I refreshed his page and I was on the top of the list. The moment chaoser did the same, I went and refreshed the page and HIS name was at the top. Fweeaky. Anyway, hypothetically what would your thoughts be on using Palmar's program as a means to arrive at two CANDIDATES for lynch (the top and bottom of the list it generates) and lynching between them? In that way, we arrive at the two candidates randomly and we still get to pick the scummiest of two candidates rather than lynching truly randomly? Or does that remove the point of the RNG lynch entirely? I feel like that is a weaker option than RNG. With a true random lynch, if we pick scum there is nothing he can do to get out of it, and our odds of hitting scum are therefore set at a specific number. However with this plan, our odds of hitting scum are actually less I feel (too tired for math) because if we hit scum with one and town with the other, the scummy player has a chance of getting out of the lynch (an option he wouldnt have if it was just a plain RNG lynch). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 10 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: In theory, removing scum's ability to influence the lynch by agreeing as a town to lynch by RNG, there's a higher chance of actually hitting scum with the lynch (no scum argumentation, no scum voting influence)...and the chances aren't bad for hitting scum randomly. In theory. I can never bring myself to trust whatever method the town decides to pick the lynch, and so feel I'm being manipulated anyway. *shrug* So, this is a game with all the "greatest mafia players of this site", where 8 of them are town, yet you think there's a higher chance of hitting scum randomly than by analysis of those "great" players? Why the fuck are some people even considering RNG at all? chaoser, what's up bro? On June 11 2012 03:37 Radfield wrote: That's not how you RNG. You RNG based on something verifiable, and then everyone follows the result. For instance, Detroit play Cincinnati tonight(mlb). So you assign everyone a number of hits. Then, however many hits there are in that game, that player gets lynched. Hits are a good RNG, because they vary in quite a range, and the average is probably around 17/18 hits per game. Because players near the average are more likely to get lynched, you run it like a snake: 17 gonzaw ---- avg 17.5 hits or so? Sorry puppy, I was NEVER lynched in any game in TL, even in the 4 games I was scum, and I will certainly not get lynched this game. On June 10 2012 08:25 Radfield wrote: In other news we could RNG a lynch. Ace, Palmar! GOGOGO! On June 10 2012 09:00 Radfield wrote: Can you hit me with the actual reasoning behind an RNG lynch. I honestly don't understand the benefit. Okay, I doubt this is a scumslip or anything and you just did it as a joke or something, but just for confirmation: Why did you propose a RNG but then oppose one? On June 10 2012 09:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: No, I meant because you both want to lynch Ace. :p Unless you love Ace as well, and then maybe Rad is just jealous, and is trying to kill Ace to steal you away from him. Isn't the idea behind RNG that we have nothing to talk about, so it provides a talking point, and that it makes mafia sweat, because they have no control over it, so if you decide to lynch a scum they'll freak out and the reaction will be enough to lynch them anyways? Yes, perhaps the purpose of the RNG thing is in fact that. Why don't you follow your own advice and talk about it then? What's your stance on it? Okay people, let me put up an alternative for RNG, actual analysis influenced lynch: Okay, first of all I want to say something: Don't let D1 behaviour be the "end all" to determine who is scum or not!! Scum have it so freaking easy to be pro-town on D1 it's not funny (trust me, I know). If you have a town read on D1, I suggest that by D2-D3 you get completely rid of it and re-analyze the player without taking that into account. But, it's D1 and we need to start somewhere, so I'll try to start on players that I think may try to blend in: Greymist: On June 10 2012 08:31 GreYMisT wrote: Sup guys, i'm the 4th round invite. looking forward to a game which is both full of analysis, fun, and not 80page long day 1's This already set up some red flags. He says he's eager for a game full of analysis. However, as you can see with all his posts since then he focuses 100% of his attention on discussing the RNG deal...yet I don't see any analysis anywhere. If he was town I'd think he'd try to get some analysis himself by now, and not just idle chat with people, making his filter larger with uninteresting stuff. Wiggles: Because of that post from above. He tells us that perhaps the RNG talk is just there to create discussion and make "mafia sweat"; however he doesn't discuss anything about it himself. It seems like he just wanted to say "something pro-town" and say something that would make him fit; but he didn't really care about what he actually said and didn't follow the implicit advise he proposed with it. Anyways, Greymist posted more "fluff" while seeming more eager to make analysis, so my vote is on him for now. ##Vote: Greymist So people, discuss. Of course, like I said I just want to find the "suspicious" behaviour that I could see one of these "great players" make as scum. It's possible Palmar will be trolling again as scum and just focus 100% of his attention on RNG and that site as well; it's possible Heymir is scum and will lurk the game away. It's possible Rad is setting up his usual "most pro-town player D1" meta as scum by initiating discussion about something irrelevant with finding scum. So I'm awaiting the responses from those 3 the most. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Well, hey scum! If you ever shoot the CF and you are getting lynched, could you out his identity to us before you get lynched? Here read this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558¤tpage=3#46 | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
Last game you played as scum you started tunneling someone that was not too far in the spotlight very early in the game. Your entire case on Greymist is that he "posted fluff" which can be said about half the players in the game. Discussing a RNG lynch is by definition fluff, it's only what you do with the information that results from it that can be very helpful. Do you believe that Greymist has more chance than anyone else in the game to flip scum gonzaw? What do you think about Radfield? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On June 11 2012 05:34 VisceraEyes wrote: There's a happy coincidence - when I came into the thread and expressed my willingness to follow Palmar's algorithm, I refreshed his page and I was on the top of the list. The moment chaoser did the same, I went and refreshed the page and HIS name was at the top. Fweeaky. Anyway, hypothetically what would your thoughts be on using Palmar's program as a means to arrive at two CANDIDATES for lynch (the top and bottom of the list it generates) and lynching between them? In that way, we arrive at the two candidates randomly and we still get to pick the scummiest of two candidates rather than lynching truly randomly? Or does that remove the point of the RNG lynch entirely? 1st part is hilarious. Anyway, your alternative is far worse than just RNG lynching. What you're suggesting basically removes the entire point of random lynching and introduces a terrible alternative to just analysis lynching. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
Alright fair enough, but I ask you what is up with this: On June 11 2012 05:58 gonzaw wrote: Oh yeah I fucking forgot about the Crazy Fiend. Well, hey scum! If you ever shoot the CF and you are getting lynched, could you out his identity to us before you get lynched? Here read this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558¤tpage=3#46 why bring this up now? there has not been a missing KP, nor has there even been a night phase. The only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
Piggybacking on Greymist's thoughts on RNG to express your own thoughts while making sure you're not the original argument for the idea is terrible. Let's do this. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:06 Palmar wrote: There is no 100% of attention to be focused on a site that's already ready, and if we RNG by it I won't be awake to make the timing call nor see the result until next morning. so you're creating shit that doesn't exist. I do find it hilarious that you guys are the most "experienced" players in this game but it seems you guys are so frightened of making analysis or something that you want to retort to RNG. Not even in Newbie Games people take RNG seriously, and those are the "noobs" that "are shit at analysing". Last game you played as scum you started tunneling someone that was not too far in the spotlight very early in the game. Last game as scum there were 2 scum factions and for most of the game I believed that the player I was "tunneling" was in fact scum from the other faction Irrelevant. Your entire case on Greymist is that he "posted fluff" which can be said about half the players in the game. Discussing a RNG lynch is by definition fluff, it's only what you do with the information that results from it that can be very helpful. Yes, it is "fluff" and it's not based on analysis, which is what Greymist said he was eager to experience this game. He was the one that said/implied he'd want analysis made this game, which is why I'm holding him accountable alone. VE didn't say he'd want analysis this game, he might just be dicking around on purpose and wanting to dick around on purpose. However Grey said otherwise, so yeah I'm holding him accountable, and I find it suspicious because of it. After Liar Game, in Post-Game Ver/Incognito said that ET made a "statement that he could be held accountable" at the start of D1 (that he'd tunnel sandro if sandro was scummy). They said that taking that statement alone, and his behaviour later in the game he was obvious scum. They also said everybody (except chaoser) completely ignored that. I tried to get the hint and pay close attention to any similar statement made on D1 that can be used to hold that player accountable, which is why I paid close attention to Grey's statement. Do you believe that Greymist has more chance than anyone else in the game to flip scum gonzaw? What do you think about Radfield? For now yes, either him or Wiggles. Most of all, I want to start some meaningful discussion that's not centered on retarded RNG. About Radfield: As soon as the game started, he was the 2nd person to post. He seemed very eager to post, contribute, and get the game going. I find those very positive traits. However, the only discussion he's been part of (where he's been "active" and "contributing" ) was about the RNG deal, and not about trying to actually find scum. That makes him null to me, since like I said, if he was scum he could have easily tried to establish his "D1 town meta" by "pseudo-contributing" about irrelevant stuff, like the RNG deal or the "let's lynch someone we know is dangerous as scum! Let's lynch Ace/Palmar!" deal. However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in  ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread).Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote: I do find it hilarious that you guys are the most "experienced" players in this game but it seems you guys are so frightened of making analysis or something that you want to retort to RNG. Not even in Newbie Games people take RNG seriously, and those are the "noobs" that "are shit at analysing". Last game as scum there were 2 scum factions and for most of the game I believed that the player I was "tunneling" was in fact scum from the other faction Irrelevant. Yes, it is "fluff" and it's not based on analysis, which is what Greymist said he was eager to experience this game. He was the one that said/implied he'd want analysis made this game, which is why I'm holding him accountable alone. VE didn't say he'd want analysis this game, he might just be dicking around on purpose and wanting to dick around on purpose. However Grey said otherwise, so yeah I'm holding him accountable, and I find it suspicious because of it. After Liar Game, in Post-Game Ver/Incognito said that ET made a "statement that he could be held accountable" at the start of D1 (that he'd tunnel sandro if sandro was scummy). They said that taking that statement alone, and his behaviour later in the game he was obvious scum. They also said everybody (except chaoser) completely ignored that. I tried to get the hint and pay close attention to any similar statement made on D1 that can be used to hold that player accountable, which is why I paid close attention to Grey's statement. For now yes, either him or Wiggles. Most of all, I want to start some meaningful discussion that's not centered on retarded RNG. About Radfield: As soon as the game started, he was the 2nd person to post. He seemed very eager to post, contribute, and get the game going. I find those very positive traits. However, the only discussion he's been part of (where he's been "active" and "contributing" ) was about the RNG deal, and not about trying to actually find scum. That makes him null to me, since like I said, if he was scum he could have easily tried to establish his "D1 town meta" by "pseudo-contributing" about irrelevant stuff, like the RNG deal or the "let's lynch someone we know is dangerous as scum! Let's lynch Ace/Palmar!" deal. However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread).Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal Rad said the exact same thing in the early game, and has also been talking mostly about RNG lynches. What are your thoughts btw? you seem to be hesitant to talk about it. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:14 Palmar wrote: Just for the record, I think MZ failed already and I'd be willing to lynch him. Piggybacking on Greymist's thoughts on RNG to express your own thoughts while making sure you're not the original argument for the idea is terrible. Let's do this. Im afriad im not following this post, can you point out where MZ failed? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:14 Palmar wrote: Just for the record, I think MZ failed already and I'd be willing to lynch him. Piggybacking on Greymist's thoughts on RNG to express your own thoughts while making sure you're not the original argument for the idea is terrible. Let's do this. I noticed that too; but I wanted to wait and see how he behaves after that. I didn't see any aparent scum motivation with his post, but it's "fishy" enough to keep a close eye on him and see how he acts the remainder of D1. On June 11 2012 06:13 GreYMisT wrote: You accuse me of only posting fluff while I stated I would not be able to do much for all of today. Strawman. I accuse you of not "holding" your end of the deal in that previous post you made. You certainly did have time to discuss the RNG thing instead of analyzing, or at least trying to analyze, so you justifying it by saying "I don't have enough time" is irrelevant. why bring this up now? there has not been a missing KP, nor has there even been a night phase. The only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch. Because I don't want scum to forget about it. After I posted that, I realized that if I was Crazy Fiend this game I'd be fucked However I'm not so it's all cool (just another game mechanic to take advantage of), that way we can try to focus on catching scum alone, and perhaps let scum get rid of the CF themselves (by shooting him+outing him in the thread later). he only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch Right, my only reasoning behind that post was to "get us off track of discussing a lynch", when I was the only that tried to get you people to abandon wasting time with the RNG talk and try to discuss a lynch in the first place You are not doing a good job of defending yourself Greymist. What do you think of Wiggles? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:20 GreYMisT wrote: Rad said the exact same thing in the early game, and has also been talking mostly about RNG lynches. No, Radfield started talking about policy lynching and some stupid shit early game, not about being eager to get some analysis going. So Grey, do you want me to lynch Radfield instead of you then? Why trying to justify yourself by saying "Well Radfield did it too! Why aren't you lynching him?" What are your thoughts btw? you seem to be hesitant to talk about it. Are you talking to me? ... ... I just made 3 gigantic posts with my thoughts on them...what the hell do you mean? Anyways, I don't want to get too eager and clog up the thread like in some other games  (Aperture, LI, etc)So people, discuss @Palmar:I don't like you trying to avoid the Grey issue by diverting attention towards MZ (it seems like a scumtell that both of you are scumbuddies). What is your stance on Grey? What about his defense and my other points I made? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:21 GreYMisT wrote: Im afriad im not following this post, can you point out where MZ failed? You should really read the thread instead of asking pointless questions you can easily verify yourself (i.e MZ has like only 2 posts in this whole game, it will take you 5 seconds to filter him and find the post in question). I suggest everybody to re-read filters and the thread occasionally as well. I was having some problems as town lately, mainly unintentionally disrupting the thread, having shitty reads all over the place, not reading the thread enough or thinking critically enough. I'll try to change that this game and see how I fare | ||
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