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ZvP cannon block on Korhal Compound

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Siggeh
Profile Joined January 2012
Norway71 Posts
March 27 2012 19:07 GMT
#1
Basically this is becoming the standard zvp on ladder, and I have no clue to beat it / get ahead and so on. Like how should I respond when this occur? (watch replay)
Like what did I do wrong? When did I start to get behind? So frustrating to lose to a 40 apm player.. (high dia / master btw)

Replay:
http://drop.sc/144631
Shorty90
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany154 Posts
March 27 2012 19:22 GMT
#2
How is this different from any other 3pylon rampblock?
I can't believe I ate the whole thing.
Olsson
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden931 Posts
March 27 2012 19:23 GMT
#3
Either put a drone on patrol below the ramp or leave. There's nothing you can do to come out even with them you'll be miles behind.
Naniwa <3
MicroTastiC
Profile Joined January 2011
375 Posts
March 27 2012 19:25 GMT
#4
put drone on patrol; or put down an earlier pool and switch up your build style
Atropin
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany96 Posts
March 27 2012 19:34 GMT
#5
Back in the days after the beta there has been a thread around showing that 11pool 18hatch is basically the same economy as hatchfirst because of the early queen
Wer andern in die Möse beißt ist böse meist
Kmatt
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1019 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 19:39:08
March 27 2012 19:35 GMT
#6
I love how people say "patrol a drone at the ramp" as if it's the most normal thing. That's like saying that you should never lose to an unscouted nydus rush because you can patrol probes across every 3x3 space in your main. It's kind of silly to suggest a solution like that. Unless you're playing Incontrol or Combatex, you can't just assume that a pylon wall is imminent, so sacking a drone at the 3:00 mark every game is in no way the "standard".

A real solution would be to have your second overlord watching over your building hatch to spot for proxy, and if so, do a drone drill to clear a pylon out. Granted, you lose a lot of mining time, but the toss had to sit around banking an expansion's worth of minerals waiting to troll you, so you're not as far behind as it feels in-game.
We CAN have nice things
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
March 27 2012 19:37 GMT
#7
it was standard until zerg players got lazy
BoxedLunch
Profile Joined January 2011
United States387 Posts
March 27 2012 19:38 GMT
#8
simple really, patrol a drone to stop this.

also, later on i feel your decision to make banes to kill his many cannons at your natural was.... inefficient. i would've committed to one base muta to try and catch him with his pants down, rather than making roach/ling standard play. although, he was so bad, that you almost won with a standard transition.
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are not
Badazmotha
Profile Joined July 2011
United States8 Posts
March 27 2012 19:47 GMT
#9
Like mentioned before...on 1 spawn point maps I prefer to early pool like an 10 pool if u wanna get in before the cannon finishes and mess with his probes a little bit (turn the tables) or 11 pool and most of the time is you run a drone down to "fake" expand the typical bad toss player will drop a pylon and try to "block" the non-incoming hatchery.

But thats just how I like to play this match-up sort of sacriices early drones, but thats just how I like to play this match-up.

Once the pylon wall is down, its tough to get out ahead b/c he is FFE'in and getting ahead rather quickly, but in this position I like the nydus worm choice haha
the day hydras have 120 hp...I will cry in happiness
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
March 27 2012 19:56 GMT
#10
ehm, this has existed since the early days of the beta, I thought it was pretty well known how to counter it by now, all you need is one drone on patrol...
jirpy
Profile Joined January 2011
United States32 Posts
March 27 2012 20:00 GMT
#11
If the toss player does get it off and you see them wasting 1000+ minerals on cannons and pylons outside your base simply tech to lair and nydus them. They won't have anything in their base if they're committing all their extra resources to a cannon rush that's already done its job
NapkinBox
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States314 Posts
March 27 2012 20:02 GMT
#12
Wait, so every game you're just gonna let a drone patrol around? I'd just use an overlord.
"Who has the best durability feat in all of comic book superheroes?" "Aquaman surviving pop culture."
Archile
Profile Joined June 2011
United States403 Posts
March 27 2012 20:19 GMT
#13
On March 28 2012 05:00 jirpy wrote:
If the toss player does get it off and you see them wasting 1000+ minerals on cannons and pylons outside your base simply tech to lair and nydus them. They won't have anything in their base if they're committing all their extra resources to a cannon rush that's already done its job


actually, 3 pylons+ 1 cannon (all you need) is only 450 minerals. that plus the fact that the 3 pylons are useful still means that hes really only WASTING 150 minerals
Just a bad player trying to be a little less bad
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 20:39:34
March 27 2012 20:20 GMT
#14
You need to use the minerals in the 3rd base and camera hotkeys for the drone drill.
Patrol drone is the easy fix. Drone drill with camera hotkeys is for the true nerd ballers.

Step by step guide.
- Spot the 3-pylon block with your 2nd overlord.
- Select all drones, just a-move them close to the pylons or something, move on -
- Move screen view to your own natural 3rd base asap.
- Position your camera so that the mineral patch in the korhal 3rd is somewhat to the bottom right/top left on your screen.
- Put the mouse over the mineral patch and SAVE F-CAMERA HOTKEY 1.
- Click DRAG SCROLL (middle mouse button) and move with your mouse all the way to the pylonblock.
- Let go of the mouse scroll on top of the pylon you want to break. DO NOT MOVE YOUR MOUSE.
- If you missed on the central pylon, hold down drag scroll once more and position the mouse over the pylon.
- When the cursor is successfully in position, SAVE F-CAMERA HOTKEY 2. DO NOT MOVE YOUR MOUSE.

You are now ready to break the block.

- Hit F-camera hotkey 1 with all your drones selected, landing you in your natural 3rd.
- Your mouse is over the mineral patch. Right-click the mineral patch once, then hold down shift and spamclick it a few times.
- Let go of shift.
- Hit F-camera hotkey 2 once and RIGHT-CLICK the pylon. You are still not moving your mouse and shouldn't be.
- Repeat these steps until the contain is broken.

edit: just want to get it out there that this is how you solve metalopolis and shattered temple blocks, too. either way this is the best method to use, it grants you the most DPS if you execute it without flaw.
Team Liquid
willverrecken
Profile Joined March 2012
80 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 20:22:16
March 27 2012 20:22 GMT
#15
On March 28 2012 05:02 NAPoleonSC wrote:
Wait, so every game you're just gonna let a drone patrol around? I'd just use an overlord.


you don't understand.
the drone is patrolled at the bottom of the ramp to block his pylons from walling you in.

you can drone drill on korhal too but it's way harder because you need to do it 'blindly'. you have to use a different mineral patch, the ones on the nat don't work if im not mistaken.
i forget which one exactly but i think it's on the base above/below the 4th (the center ones) and then blindly time the drone hits accordingly. thankfully no one has done it to me on that map yet.

i saw snute do it once
NeonFox
Profile Joined January 2011
2373 Posts
March 27 2012 20:32 GMT
#16
On March 28 2012 05:00 jirpy wrote:
If the toss player does get it off and you see them wasting 1000+ minerals on cannons and pylons outside your base simply tech to lair and nydus them. They won't have anything in their base if they're committing all their extra resources to a cannon rush that's already done its job


They only need probes to kill the nydus and most protoss players that force you to stay on one base are extra careful about spreading pylons in their base.
PeanutsNJam
Profile Joined April 2011
United States175 Posts
March 27 2012 20:48 GMT
#17
On March 28 2012 05:32 NeonFox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2012 05:00 jirpy wrote:
If the toss player does get it off and you see them wasting 1000+ minerals on cannons and pylons outside your base simply tech to lair and nydus them. They won't have anything in their base if they're committing all their extra resources to a cannon rush that's already done its job


They only need probes to kill the nydus and most protoss players that force you to stay on one base are extra careful about spreading pylons in their base.


You can nydus outside their base, pressure the ramp, nydus inside the base, and just be aggressive and force the p to screw up. Hell, fly overlords over to be annoying.
Gelenn
Profile Joined April 2011
United States87 Posts
March 27 2012 20:50 GMT
#18
The drone patrol will work more often than not, but I have had protosses see my drone and just throw down 4 pylons instead of 3 when I blocked the 3rd pylon spot. If a protoss REALLY wants to throw down that wall, it's pretty damn hard to stop them. What's the best response if the wall gets down? Drone drill still the best?
willverrecken
Profile Joined March 2012
80 Posts
March 27 2012 20:52 GMT
#19
yep. drone drill is as good as it gets.
nydus generally only works if the protoss messes up.
memcpy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
March 27 2012 20:59 GMT
#20
On March 28 2012 05:20 Snute wrote:
You need to use the minerals in the 3rd base and camera hotkeys for the drone drill.
Patrol drone is the easy fix. Drone drill with camera hotkeys is for the true nerd ballers.

Step by step guide.
- Spot the 3-pylon block with your 2nd overlord.
- Select all drones, just a-move them close to the pylons or something, move on -
- Move screen view to your own natural 3rd base asap.
- Position your camera so that the mineral patch in the korhal 3rd is somewhat to the bottom right/top left on your screen.
- Put the mouse over the mineral patch and SAVE F-CAMERA HOTKEY 1.
- Click DRAG SCROLL (middle mouse button) and move with your mouse all the way to the pylonblock.
- Let go of the mouse scroll on top of the pylon you want to break. DO NOT MOVE YOUR MOUSE.
- If you missed on the central pylon, hold down drag scroll once more and position the mouse over the pylon.
- When the cursor is successfully in position, SAVE F-CAMERA HOTKEY 2. DO NOT MOVE YOUR MOUSE.

You are now ready to break the block.

- Hit F-camera hotkey 1 with all your drones selected, landing you in your natural 3rd.
- Your mouse is over the mineral patch. Right-click the mineral patch once, then hold down shift and spamclick it a few times.
- Let go of shift.
- Hit F-camera hotkey 2 once and RIGHT-CLICK the pylon. You are still not moving your mouse and shouldn't be.
- Repeat these steps until the contain is broken.

edit: just want to get it out there that this is how you solve metalopolis and shattered temple blocks, too. either way this is the best method to use, it grants you the most DPS if you execute it without flaw.


Wow, this is pretty sick. Can't believe you put so much thought into it. Gonna try this myself.

Personally I prefer to send a drone out at 2:05ish to scout. If timed properly it will get to the ramp the same time a protoss player does a 12 forge 3 pylon block. Of course the weakness of this is that if the timing is missed by a second or his timing is delayed then the wall will still go down.

Anyone who says to stay on 1 base is just wrong. There are many threads on this topic and many games and they all show that zerg is in an extremely disadvantageous position once the wall completes. Of course it's still possible to win with nydus or 1 base muta but that's entirely the fault of protoss not playing correctly and should be left as a last resort, not the go to response.
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