|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AfGrs.jpg)
<Sand Ocean> (<1.1>)
Made by: <TheFish>
Published on: < [NA] >
Version 1.1 Has been updated and uploaded to NA
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tP0AU.jpg)
Introduction/Inspiration:
Building on my experience creating Black Mesa, I decided to tackle yet another 4v4 melee map. Seeing as how I thought up the layout while listening to the F-zero soundtrack, I decided to name it Sand Ocean. My idea behind these 4v4 maps is that I want to create something a bit more macro oriented than the current ladder maps. I also want to challenge myself and get people thinking about how to balance team maps.
In terms of balance, I would expect alot of 2 base play since it is easy to hold on to the 7 local bases near the starting locations. When designing the layout, I was trying to encourage the bottom left team to expand to their right, while the top right team should have an easier time expanding left. Thats where the bridge comes in - my hope was that after people start expanding on the sides, the bridge would become hugely important since it becomes not only the path to your opponents expansions, but also holds 2 gold bases.
Pictures (Aesthetics): (please note that pics are from version 1.0)
+ Show Spoiler +
Data (Aesthetics):
Texture Set:
Monlyth Sand
Meinhoff Rock
Monlyth Dunes
New Folsom Sand
Monlyth Bricks
Monlyth Plates
Tarsonis Detail
Meinhoff Craters
Cliff Type:
Meinhoff Organic
Monlyth Manmade
Data (Gameplay)
Playable Bounds: 198 X 184
Number of Starting Positions: <8>
Number of Bases: 30; 26- normal, 2- 8min/1richgas, 2- 6richmin/1richgas
Pictures - Map Analyzer
+ Show Spoiler +
Change Log Version 1.1
+ Show Spoiler +- Added 2 new bases - at 3 o'clock and 9 o-clock.
- Removed the watchtowers at 3 and 9 o'clock and removed the highground islands they were on
- Moved the other two watchtowers to the center of the attack path, placed them on low ground, removed their high ground islands.
- Widened the center of the "bridge" and added warning decals to denote seige-tank range on main bases.
- Widened the chokes leading onto the "bridge"
- Teams should now have an easier time expanding in both directions.
- Added blue fog.
Feedback is of course welcome 
|
your Country52797 Posts
Quite nice, but I would personally redesign it so that:
1. All bases are in the corner, as the mains near the center lead to a very choked and long, bland center. I would perfer a more open center since it is 4v4.
2. Make it easier for 2 players to take a third, as you need the entire map to secure them, despite the large number of bases, which I like.
|
United States10218 Posts
Should include an easier nat for the 4th player or else its gonna turn into a 6 pool + 3 fe xD
|
OK, Here is how I see the expansions thing going as I laid it out...
+ Show Spoiler +
And some potential changes I have been toying with in my head, but I'm not sure about.
-Bringing the odd-man-out 2nd base ( 6 / 12 oclock) slightly closer to the double-main.
-Widening the southernmost and northernmost entryways to the "bridge"
-Tucking the one gas blue mineral base in closer to the corner.
- Adding another base at 3 oclock and 9 oclock (I have been reluctant to go up to 30 bases. it seems excessive) And moving that watchtower to the middle of the attack path and the 1gas blue mineral base. This would of course change the way players would expo...
|
its a ok job with the textures, but the layout looks really fun, the middle feels forced though.
|
Poor guy whos last to expand and has to take the gimpy, friendless expo to the sides
|
On March 07 2012 17:26 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Poor guy whos last to expand and has to take the gimpy, friendless expo to the sides
This happens a lot in 3v3 and 4v4 maps. It's actually a good way to force decision making and strategy.
|
@TehTemplar; Thanks! 1- So you're saying it would be better if the center were a bit more open and that the main bases in the middle should be farther apart. I agree with you that my bridge may be a bit too cramped and I'll probably be widening it up a bit. However, if you look at a map like Extinction It doesn't even have a real center (at least not for ground units) and I still manage to have a lot of fun games on that map.
2- Yes it is tough to take a 3rd base. This is on purpose. However, what your saying is that you need to control a huge area of the map to get a 3rd, which I agree with, but can't think of an easy solution.
@FlaShFTW Indeed! You've just described 75% of the 4v4 games on ladder. However, I don't want to make it 8 base vs. 8 base right off the bat because then you just make timing attacks very strong. Imagine 4 zergs all roach/ling all-inning at once, or a 32-gate timing attack.
@WniO Thank you. I agree the middle could be improved upon. Also my texturing is not the best, but I'm quickly getting alot better
@ihasaKAROT This is true, but it is also the case on District 10 as well as on Deadlock Ridge. I actually took alot of inspiration from these maps as I feel they encourage some of the most fun gameplay in 4v4. If you notice my expansion pattern is very similar to district 10, that was by design.
@Chargelot Yes, thanks for pointing this out. Its what I had in mind when I laid out the expos in this way. To continue the debate, I would be certainly willing to reposition some of the natural expos, etc, to make them easier to hold, or closer to the mains, but I'm not willing to add pocket expansions or make the map encourage "nr20" type gameplay.
Thanks for the comments, I'll be updating with some small changes soon. If anyone has any suggestions or counterpoints to my ideas, I'd be delighted to hear.
|
On March 07 2012 13:10 TheFish7 wrote:OK, Here is how I see the expansions thing going as I laid it out... + Show Spoiler +
The lone thirds you indicated are less likely to be taken. the picture below depicts what I mean.
+ Show Spoiler [Expansion Pattern] +
Since the other three players on the the red team are expanding counter clockwise it is also likely that the fourth player will take a more exposed expansion in that same direction. Even though that expansion is more exposed it is also more protected by the other teammates, while the other expansion would be basically defenseless. Players are just more likely to expand in the same direction unless someone is ninja expanding. The thirds I marked are more likely to be possible fourths for the other team if the game were to go really long in my opinion. This creates an interesting attack pattern to the game, as shown with arrows, where each team wants to attack in different lanes.
Note that I'm just suggesting that your intended theory of expansion taking is wrong, not that that imbalances the map or anything. I'm just saying that the way you think expansions are going to be taken may not be right.
EDIT- The point is if for some reason you really want players to expand that way you might want to rework those expansions.
|
@Dark Lord Good point and very insightful. The bases in question ( 3oclock and 9oclock) have been bugging me since I started this map, I just could never think of a way to make that area more interesting. I have been thinking of everything from making that base a gold base, to moving the watchtower, to adding another expo there, to adding some destructible rocks a la District 10. that area is the main place teams will defend in, so its pretty important but I could never quite decide what to do with it, so I just stuck to my original plan. That being said, I'd like to make it more interesting....
EDIT: I think I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to move that watchtower "forward" so that it more closely mirrors the one closer to the other team on the same path. I'd put it roughly in the spot where the current statue is. That way that area is a bit easier to defend. The only question that remains is what to do with the resources in that area. I'll start by moving that base closer to the mains, but the question is whether or not I should add another base at 3oclock and 9oclock, which would make 30 bases total. As far as I know (not 100% sure) the most bases on any ladder map is 24.
|
I feel like the 12 and 6 watch towers are in the wrong places, and nonethless too powerful. They're on high ground which means you can park a dozen siege tanks next to it and you've secured it pretty good. I would move those 2 towers somewhere out of the way.
|
Update: Version 1.1 has been published on NA.
Change Log Version 1.1
+ Show Spoiler +- Added 2 new bases - at 3 o'clock and 9 o-clock.
- Removed the watchtowers at 3 and 9 o'clock and removed the highground islands they were on
- Moved the other two watchtowers to the center of the attack path, placed them on low ground, removed their high ground islands.
- Widened the center of the "bridge" and added warning decals to denote seige-tank range on main bases.
- Widened the chokes leading onto the "bridge"
- Teams should now have an easier time expanding in both directions.
- Added fog.
Pictures of the changes ~~
+ Show Spoiler +
@IronManSC Thanks for the advice, I decided you were right and got rid of those high ground spots. The number of towers is now 2, and they are located in the middle of the main attack routes, you can now also sneak around the watchtowers by sticking to the sides of the map. (see pic above)
|
Very interesting layout. Right now the outer starting positions have the advantage of joined mains, however the inner spawns are separate rather than joined. Maybe the outer spawns should be separated like the inner spawns? I would choose one or the other. In late game, the inner spawns are obviously going to be more vulnerable to quick aerial pokes so army mobility is going to be important. Not sure what should be done about it, but it's something to consider. I really like the crystals in the water by the way.
|
@iceman8711 Thanks! Yes, I do see that it could be a potential problem. The easy fix I would go for would be to simply connect the bases closer to the middle to make it a bit easier to defend air units and drops.
If anyone is interested, here is a replay of a ZZZZ v ZZZZ game I played with Very Hard AI's on the map, just to test it out and play around. All the AI's go roach/hydra, so I just dismantle them with ling/muta. Its really easy to trick the AIs in the middle to run their units back and forth to defend my air aggression. I'd think a human player would be smarter, but it makes me think air units might be a bit strong with the layout how it is.
http://drop.sc/130139
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LvZAW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZYXlK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/migLN.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rl0HI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1dGvo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LQTpB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BsRmz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/owmF6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QV2nh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IffaN.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eGtaT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QQAog.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DMPQu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7jjKn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oUP28.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kDm4t.jpg)
