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I calculated cost effectiveness based on time for resource gathering so gas and minerals are merged into time cost. The dps are taken from another thread, I did it myself but it is lost now. I may redo the dps at some point.
Total unit mechanics are hp*dps vs opponent hp*dps. Of course considering unit types and health regen rates. So here is the complete list calculated including supply cost.
For precise calculations, exact time for battle, number of units, health regen, and unit type is required. Also the mineral calculations are based on about 2 base, 2gas 18 minerals with about 20 miners. The cost increases with less miners and decreases with more miners which will effect cost effectiveness inversely.
* Update * Important Issues *
The goal of these numbers are for theorycraft and calculating builds based on large numbers of units or with much more calculations, small numbers of microd units. Also it is interesting and could give you some general insight if you don't ignore what the numbers here can't include.
Essentially, you can figure out, based on known economies, and a certain percentage of expenditure, which units will win when matched against each other.
This is of course not precise, but the idea is that with good macro and large armies, this can be very useful, since if it is very one-sided, no amount of micro or skill will help.
medic regen is not included. If someone knows it I can put it here. It does not increase hp, but reduces attacker's dps.
Upgrades for armour as well as built in armour does not influence unit hp, but rather dps of attacking unit, and so can not be included. Attack upgrades could be added to dps.
Some Important modifications to cost effectiveness:
turrets vs mutas: * .5
lurkers: * units in path
tank(s): % splash damage * units around target
corsair: * .5 units within 50 pixels * .25 units within 100 pixels
storm: * units hit (possibly .75 for dodging) (the cost effectiveness is greater and I will update at some point)
Vultures and mutas are calculated based on fighting ability, but this does not reflect the main value which is in speed and vultures also have mines.
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3936/unitce2.jpg)
(a) means air and vess/2 means average of 2 spells before dying.
(s) means stim or seiged
Example: I have personally used these numbers, in the 2gate zealot vs sunken and/or lings including hp regen,shields, and armour to calculate cost effectiveness based on economy and production ratios required. Of course higher skill will micro, increasing the time of that units fight and allowing regen more time, so a certain amount of skill can be accounted for by percentage.
I tried to include the time it took for units to build, but didn't quite figure out how to include that properly, the results were too distorted. I realize there are some errors and omissions and spells are calculated way too weak. I may fix this later or someone could help.
Just to be clear, build time is not currently used.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
Crackling best unit, turret/sunken/spore best structures. And you guys say protoss is imbalanced. Bunch of whiners.
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lol well.. to be fair, you gotta put "ease of use" as one of the factor.
To be honest, playing toss is easier cause you can 1a2a3a. But for terran, you gotta put mines, siege up, make turrets..
As a toss player, playing zerg is annoying because you just need more units to be as effective as toss. That means taking lots of control # slots for units...
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Yeah good luck breaking a siege line with your "1a2a3a". Will be really cost effective I'm sure.
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Don't let it end in a balance discussion.
And this weird statement that toss is just 1a2a3a is a joke, try to 1a2a3a vs terran or zerg army and you will see what will happen.
Best structures i agree with sayle and to units i would add vultures to cracklings, i think every toss player knows why.
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This game is balanced, much more than sc2. I will post my calculations for sc2 in a while.
There are slight imbalances, but it doesn't effect the game more than skill.
Things you have to realize:
Melee units get attacked by range and take extra hits so they need higher dps just to be balanced.
Upgrades are not included here.
Bad macro will cause your costs to go up and reduce your total army worth(both low numbers of workers and ineffective spending)
After those things are considered only skill remains(unless i forgot something)
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It's interesting at first, but there are a few things that have me woried.
1. 28.23 dps is accurate if the storm is hitting one unit. How often do storms only hit one unit? If you are going to generalize that vessels/templar can get off multiple spells, you should generalize that the storm will hit multiple units.
2. You didn't take type of damage into account. Consider the sunken: It is most commonly used to defend against marines, lings, and zealots, but will commonly have the ability to attack medics, bats, vultures, HT, DT, goons and archons. Out of those 10 units only 2 of them are big (goon and archon) so the other 8 take reduced damage, significantly lowing the sunkens dps (average of 60% damage maybe?). Same applies to turrets (almost only attacks mutas so half damage) and vultures (do 1/4 to tanks and goons. although you did leave off mines so that should help).
3. I don't know how you calculated gas. how does an scv cost 30, a marine costs 36, and an archon costs 250?
4. splash isn't taken into consideration, and certain units (lurker, tank, sair) will get splash with nearly every shot.
5. hp should take into account armor. A bc saves ~ 70 health from armor when fighting another BC, and it's only higher when lower attack units fight. armor/weapon upgrades not being considered (which may be necessary for this)
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Umm, it says that photon canons cost 150 gas. I'm pretty sure canons cost 150 minerals 0 gas.
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1. I mentioned that spells are far too weakly calculated. I essentially didn't calculate dps in battle but over the units life. This seems wrong to me now, and they should have extremely high cost effectiveness. I plan on fixing this at some point.
2. I mentioned damage type was not considered, you have to do it yourself, its a simple calculation. Mines are a little more complicated so I left them out for now.
3. gas and minerals are calculated the same way, based on time to mine. Thanks for pointing out my formatting error, the 30 and 36 are build times. Archon gas is wrong but close, I'll fix it. Other units have gas that should have build time including zealots and cannons. I will have to fix that soon.
4. Yes splash can't really be accurately put in. What you can do is look at the proportion of splash to primary damage and multiply by the average number of units hit for the situation.
5. Yes I mentioned regen in a more broad sense, but armour can be added yourself. Each unit matchup is different and cannot be generalized. What you have to do is reduce the other units dps based on rate of fire and total armour.
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damage type can be as low as 25%
furthermore, you are not considering many factors, such as the HT
why are you assuming people get 2 storms off per ht? I would wager the number is realistically less than 1.
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Everyone knows Vultures are the most cost efficient because of mines that are not included here, and MnM. MnM is a combo of units and the chart up there doesnt even factor in stim
Mines / MnM / 2 Supply tanks are the most cost efficient shit a RTS game has seen
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You really can't use any form of figures to judge in starcraft. Purely because all units are controlled by the player (ie: micro is involved), the power of a unit is judged by the power of a player. Let's not even talk about the mechanics and the inherent AI of each unit.
Examples:
- 1 marine (with stim and detection) will kill a lurker if controlled properly.
- A lurker under dark swarm is literally immune to all ranged fire.
If we had no control over units then using maths in this scenario will help us.
You put good time and effort into deriving these numbers, however, I do not understand what your trying to achieve.
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In large battles micro is a percentage increase in hp and dps.
In small ones micro can be calculated and is a bigger factor(conserving hp, increasing dps).
Essentially if you know what he's going to have at a specific time you can calculate minimum units required based on economy and units required.
So this can help you improve, throw builds away, and adapt properly.
You might do some of this without thinking, but sometimes instincts are wrong, or you get stuck, or you want to make a better starcraft bot.
I also updated the list.
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On March 06 2012 09:46 GhostOwl wrote:
Everyone knows Vultures are the most cost efficient because of mines that are not included here, and MnM. MnM is a combo of units and the chart up there doesnt even factor in stim
Mines / MnM / 2 Supply tanks are the most cost efficient shit a RTS game has seen
Also, vultures are even more cost efficient because minerals are worth less to a T who is going mech.
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On March 06 2012 11:58 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 09:46 GhostOwl wrote:
Everyone knows Vultures are the most cost efficient because of mines that are not included here, and MnM. MnM is a combo of units and the chart up there doesnt even factor in stim
Mines / MnM / 2 Supply tanks are the most cost efficient shit a RTS game has seen
Also, vultures are even more cost efficient because minerals are worth less to a T who is going mech.
I suggest you watch the infamous 107 turret game. Minerals are INCREDIBLY worthy to a T who is going mech.
To the Op, account for attack ground/air. If both, then *1. If only 1, then *0.75 or something.
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On March 06 2012 07:03 Sayle wrote:
Crackling best unit, turret/sunken/spore best structures. And you guys say protoss is imbalanced. Bunch of whiners.
so it must be the players who make this race imbalanced 
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I can agree to cracklings being imba... when I've seen one making it out of a feild of 12 mines with only the shields gone.
Until then I will stick with zealot imba !
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On March 06 2012 07:03 Sayle wrote:
Crackling best unit, turret/sunken/spore best structures. And you guys say protoss is imbalanced. Bunch of whiners.
Well according to that, Zealot > zergling, plus zealot is 4 times better than regular marines. It's a good thing we use line-backers as workers or PvT would be completely unbalanced.
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No entry for scout in the list? Also maybe I'm wrong but I thought turrets were more than 75 minerals...
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EPT
