• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:28
CEST 21:28
KST 04:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 696 users

[M] (3) Trillium Toxicodendron

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-29 07:31:18
October 27 2011 07:47 GMT
#1
Trillium Toxicodendron v.1.10
This map is intended for the TL Mapping Contest instigated by Blizzard.

This map is published on NA.

+ Show Spoiler [Other Contest Maps] +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=275207 -- Xel'Naga's Folly
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=275739 -- Blockbuster


Creation Details:
+ Show Spoiler +

This is my third and final map for the TL Mapping Contest. I did not know if I would be able to pull this off in time, but I made a big push (that cut into my already somewhat dismal sleep schedule) and I have to say I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out.

Unlike my other maps, I chose to go with a slightly different approach to the map, that is to say, I did not go with the full Broodwar square this time. Instead, I decided to play with another regular polygon that better fit the number of players (three, btw) that I had intended this map to accommodate: the hexagon. Now while you might first think of the number "six" when you hear the word "hexagon", the reason I wanted to go with a hexagonally shaped map versus a triangular map for three players is that a hexagon simply fills more space within that Broodwar square than a triangle does while still being evenly divisible by three. This allows for less wasted space in the map file (to a certain degree) and also allows for more space to play with inside the bounds of the shape which suits the kind of play I was envisioning on this particular map.



The way I got the hexagon play area to work was to reverse engineer my hexagon dimensions from the approximate play area I was looking to cover. So first I took a 150x150 playing area (the size of my other two contest maps) and found what a side of a hexagon with that area would be which is approximately 93. So I knew that would have to be my maximum size, but the way terrain works, it likes to be in even numbers in general, so what does a 90 length sided hexagon yield as it's height and play area? ~156 height and ~145x145 area. And that's how the playable area was determined.

But, this is a three player map, maybe that's still a little large, let's see what an 80 length sided hexagon yields: ~140 height and ~129x129 area. Perfect. And yet, both of those even length yield a nice even height, is there a way to use both? Oh yeah, air space -- why not? So to constrain the playable distance to just the ~145x145 area, the playable map height is set to 156 which takes care of two of the sides, and the angled sides utilize no-fly-zone blockers to complete the boundary within the boundary.

But before we can know where to place those blockers, we need to section out the hexagon(s) into the terrain. So first, find the middle point of the map, count back 45 (90 / 2) along the blue line, terrain lower a corner, find the other corners, lower them, find the middle corners, lower them, determine the rise-over-run of the mid corners to the base corners and plot the most even straight line. Repeat for the inner hexagon (ground playable area) and lower the in between. Bam. Interestingly enough, this is my smallest map despite the fact that the technical playing boundaries are 180x156 (and it also has the most surrounding space I think).



One goals of this map was to attempt to make as rotationally symmetrical a three player map as possible to mitigate positional imbalance. However, it is also fairly reflectionally symmetrical as well, the key asymmetry being the direction the dual naturals (yes, *more* dual naturals -- more on that below) are facing.

Regardless, in order to achieve as high a level of symmetry as possible, I was required to dig deep into my past and utilize certain maths that I haven't been required to use in years, which was quite a pleasure (and fortunately for me, wikipedia somehow plagiarized all of me Trig notes). Rotating the major points of a land formation from a 45 degree based system into a 30 degree based system and then approximating that back into a 45 degree based system takes a bit of art in addition to the math.

That said, as well as I think I got the symmetry to align, there are quite a few minor (to my way of thinking) positional imbalances in each of the three positions. In spite of that, I believe I have covered the support of most, if not all, of the traditional openings (FFE, 14/14, T/P wall-off) as well as effectively mitigated the likelihood/effectiveness of certain less desirable openings (::cough:: 4-gate all-in ::cough:: ) and created on the whole a very balanced map.

While my quest to perfect the dual natural layout continues with this map (until I solve it and can move on to triple naturals!), the variation here I would hazard to say is more "standard" than prior attempts. The reason I say this is that it utilizes one of the more popular methods of providing a second natural option (a "protected" base) and it utilizes rocks (which should make Blizzard happy).



Anyway, I mentioned that a hexagon best fit the kind of play I wanted to see on this map, particularly over what could be done on a triangular field, so what is that? Well, what I wanted to see was the ability to utilize positional play, broad sweeping flanks, and the ability to completely bypass the typical size contain. Now these might in part seem like some contradictory themes, but I think that they play together well through this map.

The front of the main can see/attack movements from the middle toward either of the two naturals via the low ground path. To avoid this potentiality a detour must be made over or around the raised ground between the bases.

Going over is a little more chokey, but gives access to the watch tower which can see any movement out of the natural (via the ramp). Also, the choke-iness also forces (to a degree) large balls of units to spread out in a line from which the ranged untis can easily form a concave against units on the low ground. This allows for a bit of a counter ambush, as well as a potential flank/surround if (melee) units were to pour down the ramps at both ends.

Going around is less chokey but loses the vision of a potential counter-attack/backstab through the middle.

Of course, breaking the rocks behind the other natural (or third) can allow and army to travel virtually unnoticed, unless of course the other tower were occupied as well.

In either case, there is sufficient air space to allow for drops/aerial assault that can go unnoticed by the towers so scouting remains absolutely essential even in the face of otherwise full map control. These sort of dynamic of options and counterplay are much more enabled by the broad sweeping wings of the hexagonal shape than I think a triangular shape could support.



The name comes from the combination of the plant genus Trillium, which are certain three petal flowers, and the plant genus Toxicodendron, to which plants like poison ivy (also three leaved) belong. The name is supposed to imply a hidden danger (since I do not think Trillium are dangerous) which I think play on this map will prove out. So with an adequately themed name for a three player map, I decided to take the art in that direction as well, and from a birds eye view tried to make the map look somewhat flower/plant-like. If I had more time I would try to to a better job of this, but I am satisfied with how it turned out for now.


Map Pics:
+ Show Spoiler +
Overview
(90 degrees)
[image loading]

(Game angle, full map)
[image loading]

Analyzer
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary (rocks used to force routes)
[image loading]

Summary (rocks used to force island mains -- though this is a slightly different version map than the one above, only the 12 is affected, and yet, all of the main sizes change BIGGER when isolated... very odd... so I do not know which is the accurate calcuation for main size)
[image loading]

Rush distances (rocks used to force routes)
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]



Details
+ Show Spoiler ['Beauty' shots] +

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [Wall-offs] +

Protoss (this should give an idea of how to wall, FFE, and force field on the cardinal direction ramps)
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [Creep connections] +

None yet -- Should only take one, if that.

+ Show Spoiler [Siege range] +

None yet -- pretty straight forward, everything is siegeable to a degree, main cannot be sieged from the front.



Map Specifications:
  • Size -- 180x156 playable (200x184 full) [technical]
  • Size -- ~145x~145 pathable [by air -- area of 90x156 hexagon]
  • Size -- ~129x~129 pathable [by ground -- area of 80x140 hexagon]
  • Tileset -- All Haven
  • # Players -- 3
  • Main Locations -- 12 / 4 / 8
  • # Bases -- 12
    • 9x 8min, 2gas {main & x2 natural} (standard min/gas amount)
    • 3x 6min, 2gas {between bases} (standard min/gas amount)
    • Total Resources -- 195,000
    • Saturation -- 11.607124857~ [by ground]

  • Rush Distance Timings
    • Any
      • Main Ramp to Main Ramp -- ~40sec
      • Nat Ramp to Nat Ramp -- ~35sec


  • # Xel'Naga Watchtowers -- 3
    • One on high ground above each gold base

  • Line of Sight Blockers -- 9
    • One on each side of the 2/6/10 gold bases
    • One in the middle along the gold base vectors separating the middle "belonging" to each base

  • Destructible Rocks -- 12
    • Covering each gold base expansion location -- 1
    • Covering the large backdoor ramp to the third -- 1
    • Obstructing/Narrowing each main ramp -- 1

  • Unpathable terrain -- 2
    • Entire area outside the outer edge of the water unpathable even by air - 1
    • Middle "fountain" area, no ground pathing - 1



Change Log:
version 0.90 posted -- OP
version 1.10 posted -- mains slightly enlarged, naturals slightly shifted, some positional imbalances adjusted

Final comments:
I hope you enjoy this map! It was fun and challenging to make. There is very little time left to this contest, but if you happen to playtest it I'd be very happy to recieve feedback about it.

EDIT1: Finished OP, version updated (see Change Log)
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
Apom
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
France655 Posts
October 27 2011 08:08 GMT
#2
It looks very choky overall, especially in the center where armies will meet. I think that the centermost half of the X-shaped cliffs could be cut to make things clearer.

(Side note : you have (4) in the title of the topic, instead of (3).)
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
October 27 2011 10:12 GMT
#3
After our games (you have the replays) Arcajin thinks the shape of the gold minerals might make it unable to build the nexus/CC at the right distance. You should test to confirm.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
October 29 2011 07:29 GMT
#4
OP updated/completed. Please take a looksie.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

@ Apom -- there is some chokey-ness, but please read the creation details as it should explain some of that. In testing, the colossus ball did not have too much trouble staying together.

@ Blazinghand -- The golds on average are probably slighly further away than in general, this is because at the 6 to try to remain as symmetric as possible, the base will be slightly closer to one side there are two optimal build locations one tile apart. So to approximate this at the 2 / 10 spots, there is only one optimal build spot, but the minerals are just slightly further on average. I do not believe any of the though are further than is a normal "long" distance (so 4 tiles instead of 3). The vespene is the same, one short and one long at each.

Also, just so you know, the mains were enlarged a bit via your recommendation after we playtested the other night. However, the ramps in the middle were not simply due making it way too chokey. Besides, that high ground is supposed to be more tactical than an actual place to pile a huge army.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
October 29 2011 11:40 GMT
#5
As soon as I saw the name I knew it was a hypertonic map
It's a good 3base concept, but it IS very chokey.


@ Apom -- there is some chokey-ness, but please read the creation details as it should explain some of that. In testing, the colossus ball did not have too much trouble staying together.

Did you test ZvP against collosus ball? The current size of the chokes, and the length, make passageways where protoss is invincible because the zerg can't engage.
You should also make the main- nat(?) ramps diagonal because the way they currently are makes walling easier in certain spots.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Athox
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway64 Posts
October 29 2011 13:41 GMT
#6
Tanks on all the high grounds in the middle there = invincible
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
October 29 2011 16:06 GMT
#7
@ TehTemplar -- As far as the ramps go, those are the best ramps for those positions that are: A) as symmetric as possible, B) as aesthetically pleasing as possible, C) as functionally even as possible. Believe me when I say I tried to make the angled ramps work, but quite simply they didn't. They either cut too much into the main or too much into the natural and looked fairly awkward. They were also not as friendly to the conventional wall-in configurations. Perhaps there is a way they could have worked, but this was the best configuration I could come up with. Every spot should be able to have a standard Terran 2 supply/1rax wall, Protoss a gateway/cyber/zealot wall, and Protoss a 1-2 pylon/forge fast expansion. While it is a technical positional imbalance to require a building less in a location, I do not consider a one pylon difference to be breakingly significant. Again, it was the best I could come up with.

I did not test every composition and every tactic on this map, no. That was one that has not yet been tried. However, while things like colossus and tanks will be strong on that ridge, especially colossus aided by blink stalker, but the zerg (insert race really) can engage by surrounding the high ground passageway. By attacking from both sides with ranged units and sending melee in from multiple ramps, zerg should be able to have a decent fight.

@ Athox -- Same thing with tanks, ranged units with vision should be able to assualt the cliff from multiple angles with melee charging the ramps. It will not be *easy* and maybe not what people are generally used to tactically, but I think it raises the skill cap in a good way and allows for more interesting positional play.

If either of you would be so kind as to playtest it a few times and prove otherwise, that would be great. I'm still going to submit this map as is because I simply will not be able to work on it any more before the submission period ends, and play on it so far has turned out pretty well.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O219
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
SKillous vs LamboLIVE!
Clem vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2656
ComeBackTV 2058
IndyStarCraft 736
WardiTV500
3DClanTV 220
CranKy Ducklings176
EnkiAlexander 99
Rex66
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2656
IndyStarCraft 736
Rex 66
Vindicta 52
MindelVK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Shine 328
firebathero 221
ZZZero.O 219
Soulkey 127
Dota 2
capcasts127
LuMiX1
League of Legends
febbydoto5
Counter-Strike
fl0m3346
flusha244
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1968
Mew2King1307
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor647
Liquid`Hasu489
Other Games
Grubby2605
B2W.Neo981
Hui .190
KnowMe155
mouzStarbuck54
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2685
StarCraft 2
angryscii 15
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta18
• LUISG 13
• Legendk 5
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• Azhi_Dahaki12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV1079
• masondota2275
Other Games
• imaqtpie1257
• Shiphtur417
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
15h 33m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
WardiTV European League
1d 20h
Online Event
1d 22h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.