• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:17
CET 10:17
KST 18:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1291 users

Somalia - Success of Anarchy

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:21:04
July 01 2011 03:13 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Somalia is experiencing progress according to several criteria, despite (or, some would say, because of) its lack of a strong central government. As a result, it is by far the fastest growing, fastest improving among all the less developed countries. This should be a model for the world..

As Robert Murphy points out in his latest article, despite the biased assessment of BBC's Reflects on 20 Years of Anarchy, careful analysis of conditions in the area suggest remarkable improvement in living standards.

For example, Somalia has the most vibrant telecommunications sector in Africa

Somali telecoms expert Ahmed Farah says the first mobile telephone mast went up in Somalia in 1994, and now someone can make a mobile call from anywhere in the country.

There are nine networks to choose from and they offer services from texting to mobile internet access.


In addition, the area is at the forefront of the development of the security industry,

What is particularly amusing is the complaint that businesses currently must pay private security firms to guard their goods. Well, a government police and court system won't work for tips — they too will need to be financed, but through involuntary taxation. As with any monopoly, the government's provision of a "justice system" will be more expensive — other things being equal — than the provision through private, competing agencies.


In addition, Murphy addresses several of the fallacies statist critics often commit in their assessment of the private security sector.

As Ben Powell et al. in his fantastic work has shown, so Murphy too concludes that if people in the more developed countries of the world wish to help the impoverished region, we can certainly send money and even visit to offer medical services and other assistance. But if the West foists the "gift" of another state on the beleaguered Somalis, their appropriate response should be, "No, you shouldn't have."
Aah thats the stuff..
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
July 01 2011 03:22 GMT
#2
Its not a success of anarchy. Its just what should of been done with Africa from long long ago. Get out, let them fix their own problems instead of inserting dictators and throwing aid at them.
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:25:18
July 01 2011 03:24 GMT
#3
^^Tofu said my thoughts exactly. Of course a free market economy will improve faster than the dictatorships in the rest of Africa.

xarthaz wrote:
This should be a model for the world.

As much as I dislike the US government, I would prefer it over lawlessness.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Legend`
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada381 Posts
July 01 2011 03:25 GMT
#4
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like



Which needs to be addressed.
NME.352 GM NA Protoss
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 01 2011 03:26 GMT
#5
It's not anarchy, it's oligarchy. The telecommunications industry is thriving because they have money and guns. Just like anyone else there is thriving because they have money and guns.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
July 01 2011 03:32 GMT
#6
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.
Aah thats the stuff..
Smoru
Profile Joined September 2010
United States83 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:37:54
July 01 2011 03:37 GMT
#7
for the record I sent the article they quoted to the Mises Institute two weeks before they published the editorial that you are quoting:

+ Show Spoiler +
to tucker@mises.org
date Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:31 PM
subject Interesting BBC article on Somalia's economy
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details Jun 13

Hi Mr. Tucker,
I've been a reader of the Mises Institute, and your pieces, for a couple years now.
While reading through the BBC today, I came across a rather interesting article about Somalia's economy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12278628
To summarize the article, Somalia's economy is not in a deep depression, as one might expect given the 20 years of conflict, but is booming, in a sense.
I think it is a good piece because it shows how the free market simply works, no matter what the situation. As per usual for an article put out by an organization like the BBC, it heavily cautions against getting your hopes up, since no economy can survive with out the security and stability of a government! Although I suspect that the security concerns of the businesses mentioned center around the fact that the country is still in the midst of a civil war, not because of anarchy.
I hope you enjoy the article, and find the BBC's consternation about Somalia's economy as funny as I found it.

Thanks for all the work you & The Mises Insitute have done so far,

(Jeffrey Tucker is the Vice President of the Mises Institute)
Win Together, Die Alone
relyt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1073 Posts
July 01 2011 03:50 GMT
#8
I think Somalia is an interesting experiment. I can't wait to see what they will be like in 25-50 years.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 01 2011 03:50 GMT
#9
Anarchists are foolish idealists. The founders of USA understood the need to balance freedom and order. And, they established a framework for people to freely succeed according to their ambition that also restricted government power. Granted, after a few hundred years it is swamped by general laziness and nearly overcome by a demand for endless 'rights' without compensatory sacrifices by its citizens, but it's so robust that it's still succeeding for the most part.
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:53:40
July 01 2011 03:52 GMT
#10
Africa has been plagued by corrupt governments for years. You remove said corrupt governments and i'm sure 90% of the time the country will see an improvement. However, Anarchy anywhere else in the world? No. I really hope anarchists aren't naive enough to truly use this an example for their belief. But then again, in my opinion, naivety and Anarchism basically go hand and hand.
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
July 01 2011 03:52 GMT
#11
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
July 01 2011 03:53 GMT
#12
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
And who would that be? With 80% of the population owning firearms :p
Aah thats the stuff..
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
July 01 2011 03:55 GMT
#13
Oh, and Somalian pirates. I guess this proves why most pirates now adays come from that neck of the woods : /
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:58:07
July 01 2011 03:57 GMT
#14
On July 01 2011 12:53 xarthaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
And who would that be? With 80% of the population owning firearms :p

Whichever group has the most money.

Groups form out of anarchy. No matter how much you think anarchy is self-persisting, all it will take is time before there are 1-3 groups who run everything
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
partisan
Profile Joined January 2011
United States783 Posts
July 01 2011 03:57 GMT
#15
This is a joke right? Surely there is not a single sane person that looks at Somalia as a success story. Yea, 20 years of endless violence where its citizens have to turn to piracy to make money.

But apparently the US is at fault again, which is great because I was beginning to miss that dead horse.
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
July 01 2011 03:58 GMT
#16
doesnt change the fact I would never ever want to go to somalia or any other country that lacks any sort of government
hihihi
furymonkey
Profile Joined December 2008
New Zealand1587 Posts
July 01 2011 03:59 GMT
#17
If Anarchists thinks Somalia is their ideal state, maybe we could ship them off there?
Leenock the Punisher
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
July 01 2011 03:59 GMT
#18
On July 01 2011 12:57 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:53 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
And who would that be? With 80% of the population owning firearms :p

Whichever group has the most money.

Groups form out of anarchy. No matter how much you think anarchy is self-persisting, all it will take is time before there are 1-3 groups who run everything

I almost think the thread title is arrogant in itself. Should be changed to "Somalia - Success of Anarchy?"
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Elegy
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1629 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 04:03:17
July 01 2011 04:01 GMT
#19
Awesome to see this, I'm glad that of all the wealthy, prosperous, and well-to-do nations in the world such as Sweden, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and the United States, there is a single example where a failed state has a thriving telecoms market.

Can we make a thread and list dozens of nations where a mixture of state capitalism has produced a standard of living that far exceeds anything ever seen in Somalia (which has had 20 years of anarchy, pretty good amount of time!) or would that detract from the awesomeness that is anarchy in action?
ploy
Profile Joined January 2006
United States416 Posts
July 01 2011 04:03 GMT
#20
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.


Indeed.

It's bad enough that in a true democracy, the majority can still dictate the minority even if the majority is just barely over 50% and are completely ignorant. The same works with guns. Whoever has the most guns will be able to impose their will on others. To disagree is to be violent. I'll take democracy.
1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 81
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9478
Sea 3925
Leta 729
Horang2 601
Larva 484
Jaedong 361
Light 207
Mong 85
EffOrt 68
yabsab 37
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 35
NotJumperer 13
Dota 2
XcaliburYe220
League of Legends
JimRising 528
Counter-Strike
zeus109
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor139
Other Games
summit1g7675
XaKoH 127
Trikslyr23
trigger9
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick997
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota261
League of Legends
• Jankos980
• HappyZerGling124
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
44m
WardiTV 2025
1h 44m
Spirit vs Cure
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
3h 14m
Ladder Legends
9h 44m
BSL 21
10h 44m
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
Ladder Legends
1d 7h
BSL 21
1d 10h
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.