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Somalia - Success of Anarchy

Forum Index > General Forum
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xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:21:04
July 01 2011 03:13 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Somalia is experiencing progress according to several criteria, despite (or, some would say, because of) its lack of a strong central government. As a result, it is by far the fastest growing, fastest improving among all the less developed countries. This should be a model for the world..

As Robert Murphy points out in his latest article, despite the biased assessment of BBC's Reflects on 20 Years of Anarchy, careful analysis of conditions in the area suggest remarkable improvement in living standards.

For example, Somalia has the most vibrant telecommunications sector in Africa

Somali telecoms expert Ahmed Farah says the first mobile telephone mast went up in Somalia in 1994, and now someone can make a mobile call from anywhere in the country.

There are nine networks to choose from and they offer services from texting to mobile internet access.


In addition, the area is at the forefront of the development of the security industry,

What is particularly amusing is the complaint that businesses currently must pay private security firms to guard their goods. Well, a government police and court system won't work for tips — they too will need to be financed, but through involuntary taxation. As with any monopoly, the government's provision of a "justice system" will be more expensive — other things being equal — than the provision through private, competing agencies.


In addition, Murphy addresses several of the fallacies statist critics often commit in their assessment of the private security sector.

As Ben Powell et al. in his fantastic work has shown, so Murphy too concludes that if people in the more developed countries of the world wish to help the impoverished region, we can certainly send money and even visit to offer medical services and other assistance. But if the West foists the "gift" of another state on the beleaguered Somalis, their appropriate response should be, "No, you shouldn't have."
Aah thats the stuff..
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
July 01 2011 03:22 GMT
#2
Its not a success of anarchy. Its just what should of been done with Africa from long long ago. Get out, let them fix their own problems instead of inserting dictators and throwing aid at them.
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:25:18
July 01 2011 03:24 GMT
#3
^^Tofu said my thoughts exactly. Of course a free market economy will improve faster than the dictatorships in the rest of Africa.

xarthaz wrote:
This should be a model for the world.

As much as I dislike the US government, I would prefer it over lawlessness.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Legend`
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada381 Posts
July 01 2011 03:25 GMT
#4
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like



Which needs to be addressed.
NME.352 GM NA Protoss
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 01 2011 03:26 GMT
#5
It's not anarchy, it's oligarchy. The telecommunications industry is thriving because they have money and guns. Just like anyone else there is thriving because they have money and guns.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
July 01 2011 03:32 GMT
#6
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.
Aah thats the stuff..
Smoru
Profile Joined September 2010
United States83 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:37:54
July 01 2011 03:37 GMT
#7
for the record I sent the article they quoted to the Mises Institute two weeks before they published the editorial that you are quoting:

+ Show Spoiler +
to tucker@mises.org
date Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:31 PM
subject Interesting BBC article on Somalia's economy
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details Jun 13

Hi Mr. Tucker,
I've been a reader of the Mises Institute, and your pieces, for a couple years now.
While reading through the BBC today, I came across a rather interesting article about Somalia's economy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12278628
To summarize the article, Somalia's economy is not in a deep depression, as one might expect given the 20 years of conflict, but is booming, in a sense.
I think it is a good piece because it shows how the free market simply works, no matter what the situation. As per usual for an article put out by an organization like the BBC, it heavily cautions against getting your hopes up, since no economy can survive with out the security and stability of a government! Although I suspect that the security concerns of the businesses mentioned center around the fact that the country is still in the midst of a civil war, not because of anarchy.
I hope you enjoy the article, and find the BBC's consternation about Somalia's economy as funny as I found it.

Thanks for all the work you & The Mises Insitute have done so far,

(Jeffrey Tucker is the Vice President of the Mises Institute)
Win Together, Die Alone
relyt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1073 Posts
July 01 2011 03:50 GMT
#8
I think Somalia is an interesting experiment. I can't wait to see what they will be like in 25-50 years.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 01 2011 03:50 GMT
#9
Anarchists are foolish idealists. The founders of USA understood the need to balance freedom and order. And, they established a framework for people to freely succeed according to their ambition that also restricted government power. Granted, after a few hundred years it is swamped by general laziness and nearly overcome by a demand for endless 'rights' without compensatory sacrifices by its citizens, but it's so robust that it's still succeeding for the most part.
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:53:40
July 01 2011 03:52 GMT
#10
Africa has been plagued by corrupt governments for years. You remove said corrupt governments and i'm sure 90% of the time the country will see an improvement. However, Anarchy anywhere else in the world? No. I really hope anarchists aren't naive enough to truly use this an example for their belief. But then again, in my opinion, naivety and Anarchism basically go hand and hand.
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
July 01 2011 03:52 GMT
#11
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
July 01 2011 03:53 GMT
#12
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
And who would that be? With 80% of the population owning firearms :p
Aah thats the stuff..
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
July 01 2011 03:55 GMT
#13
Oh, and Somalian pirates. I guess this proves why most pirates now adays come from that neck of the woods : /
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 03:58:07
July 01 2011 03:57 GMT
#14
On July 01 2011 12:53 xarthaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
And who would that be? With 80% of the population owning firearms :p

Whichever group has the most money.

Groups form out of anarchy. No matter how much you think anarchy is self-persisting, all it will take is time before there are 1-3 groups who run everything
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
partisan
Profile Joined January 2011
United States783 Posts
July 01 2011 03:57 GMT
#15
This is a joke right? Surely there is not a single sane person that looks at Somalia as a success story. Yea, 20 years of endless violence where its citizens have to turn to piracy to make money.

But apparently the US is at fault again, which is great because I was beginning to miss that dead horse.
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
July 01 2011 03:58 GMT
#16
doesnt change the fact I would never ever want to go to somalia or any other country that lacks any sort of government
hihihi
furymonkey
Profile Joined December 2008
New Zealand1587 Posts
July 01 2011 03:59 GMT
#17
If Anarchists thinks Somalia is their ideal state, maybe we could ship them off there?
Leenock the Punisher
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
July 01 2011 03:59 GMT
#18
On July 01 2011 12:57 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:53 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.
And who would that be? With 80% of the population owning firearms :p

Whichever group has the most money.

Groups form out of anarchy. No matter how much you think anarchy is self-persisting, all it will take is time before there are 1-3 groups who run everything

I almost think the thread title is arrogant in itself. Should be changed to "Somalia - Success of Anarchy?"
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
Elegy
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1629 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 04:03:17
July 01 2011 04:01 GMT
#19
Awesome to see this, I'm glad that of all the wealthy, prosperous, and well-to-do nations in the world such as Sweden, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and the United States, there is a single example where a failed state has a thriving telecoms market.

Can we make a thread and list dozens of nations where a mixture of state capitalism has produced a standard of living that far exceeds anything ever seen in Somalia (which has had 20 years of anarchy, pretty good amount of time!) or would that detract from the awesomeness that is anarchy in action?
ploy
Profile Joined January 2006
United States416 Posts
July 01 2011 04:03 GMT
#20
On July 01 2011 12:52 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 12:32 xarthaz wrote:
On July 01 2011 12:25 Legend` wrote:
On paper it all seems good, but then theres are still things like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HQbqJ-nMU

Which needs to be addressed.

Thriving small arms industry with rock bottom prices? Sounds great. Remember, guns are the great equalizer, which make a granny knitting club no less a pushover than a band of grunts. Where there is equality in power, there is peace. As such, these conditions are part of the reason for Peace in somalia. While the foreign opressors - UN, Ethiopia, US, are the reason for violence.

Guns aren't the great equalizer. Death is the great equalizer. Oppressors are just whoever has the most guns.


Indeed.

It's bad enough that in a true democracy, the majority can still dictate the minority even if the majority is just barely over 50% and are completely ignorant. The same works with guns. Whoever has the most guns will be able to impose their will on others. To disagree is to be violent. I'll take democracy.
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