EPTPick Your Power Insane!
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Puppeteer Gets a smurf. The player is able to use two accounts, his main account and his smurf accounts. The smurf account will be publically known to all, however, the smurf cannot die or be targeted by any action. Basically he will be two people. If the Puppeteer dies, his smurf will die. In addition, his smurf's vote will not count for voting purposes. Messages to LSB for Insane 2. Original Message From Kavdragon: I was doing a little thinking, and came up with a few ideas for Insane. (Possible roles for me.) Puppeteer: + Show Spoiler + Basic Idea: Player smurfs in insane, as well as playing with his main account. The effect being that he has two different names that he can go by in-game. Variables to be adjusted for balance: (Pick one or two to balance the role if you feel it's too powerful. Or let me pick one or two...) Voting: Ghost Vote: One of the accounts do not count for voting purposes. (Not public information, Player can decide which account's vote counts. (Can change which counts between days?) Death: Lover's Remorse: If one account dies, the other also dies. (I disslike this one because it removes a lot of strategy that you have if Puppeteer's Weakness or Smurf's Trick is used.) Puppeteer's Weakness: If your Main account dies, your smurf also dies. Smurf's Trick If your Smurf account dies, your main also dies. I think it would be fun if the puppeteer had the choice between Puppeteer's Weakness and Smurf's Trick at the end of day one. LOL. Did LSB tell you about this in balance discussions for Insane 2? On May 04 2011 08:06 Kenpachi wrote: oh man.. this game has such fun roles.. If i was good enough, id aim for Puppeteer because of how incredible that role is.. otherwise, id get vengeful player cause i get lynched a lot.  ..I take full credit for the role. =D Here are a few other ideas for roles, since you're throwing balance out of the window: Confessor + Show Spoiler + Basic Idea: Player may be PM'd by anyone in the game. (May not PM back) Variables to be adjusted for balance:(Pick one to balance the role if you feel it's too powerful.) Oath of Silence: May not publicly reveal any information gained through PM's. (Kinda negates a lot of the use, but would force the player to find creative ways of getting around it.) Informant's Discretion: May not reveal the person who PM'd them, but may pass on information. Ambassador: (x4?) + Show Spoiler + Basic idea: You and a known ally are able to communicate with two members of the opposing team. You will all have aliases, and communicate on a quick topic. Variables to be adjusted for balance: One Way Glass: The identity of the town allied ambassadors is not hidden from the mafia. (They will receive no alias.) Half Empty: There is only one ambassador for each team. Never Alone: If the opposing team does NOT pick up the ambassador role, someone will be picked to take up the position. (This may or may not overwrite their previously picked role.) | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Looking forward to playing with Chezniu. Also, should I announce my Mayoral campaign yet? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 10 2011 13:33 kitaman27 wrote: If you do, the Kavdragon Sucks Party will be back in full force. Excellent. If i recall correctly you the KSP ended up being one of my chief supporters. Glad to have you back. The only people I'm really afraid of are the "Lynch Kav Day One" party members. They know how to get it DONE. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 10 2011 21:33 Caller wrote: some asshole told me to sign up so here i am Oh wow. Caller and Ace. Now, to get rid of BC's 1 game ban... | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
The mafia know who is on their team and in a normal game this is a big advantage for obvious reasons. However when you introduce many power roles, the ability to communicate and coordinate with team mates becomes much, much more valuable. 1KP for mafia In normal games, the town has two main advantage: Numbers, and power roles. In this game, there are many more power roles, so I think it should be balanced with a smaller number of town players. (Or rather, a smaller ratio of town/mafia). 6 players for mafia My half cent. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 13 2011 09:29 Barundar wrote: What win condition would a mafia Village Idiot have? Seems like choosing VI would be playing against your mafia win condition, but it's a good question to ask. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
...or we can get down to business: Node. On May 14 2011 09:19 Node wrote: Role received. DUN DUN DUUUUUNNNNNNNNN Cool story. What role did you get? On May 14 2011 10:19 Node wrote: I question whether it's a good idea to specifically deny the mafia powerful roles. There are certainly a few roles that would be extraordinarily powerful in the hands of the mafia, but there are enough good-to-very strong roles that if they didn't feel comfortable picking top-tier they could just go elsewhere. In addition, there's the more "quirky" roles where a well-executed tactic could be disastrous (for instance, check out the synergy between the mason and the agent of chaos) but difficult to predict and deny. I'd rather see the town prioritize the roles that would be really powerful in the hands of the town. For instance, the Assassin could basically be used as an alignment-checking DT that kills mafia when they find them. There's very little risk in having the role going to a townie. Other potentially good town roles include Cupid, Priest, and Jailkeeper. I haven't extensively gone into any other possibilities, but there's definitely good stuff out there. Node's ideas are wrong, and wrong in a way that benefits mafia. Mafia wants to get the powerful roles, and the will try to get them. Anything beyond this is WIFOM. We can build a list of roles that the mafia will likely try to obtain, and have town go after those roles. If a townie and a mafia try to get the same role, town wins: The ratio of mafia to townies is 1/4, so if we send one townie to block a role that the mafia want, we only allocate 1/4 of the manpower that the mafia has to in order to try for the role, and they have no better chance of getting that power than the townie does. This is very similar to the reason that 1-1 trades work well. I'm not saying that we should not go for pro-town roles, but that we need to also go for anti town roles. We have a manpower advantage over the mafia, and we should utilize it. Compound this with the fact that node states his opinions very tentatively, and you've got yourself an FOS: node. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 14 2011 14:24 Node wrote: Let me put it this way. There are over twenty roles with the power to kill. There are 7 - 10 (depending on how you define them) with the ability to kill or give somebody else the power to kill every cycle. There are at least 5 roles that are only powerful when used by the mafia. If you think we can realistically keep all of those out of the hands of the mafia, well, there's not much I can do for you. I think the courses that the other PYP games took show that it's pretty hard to make things go according to plan, and those had closer to 25 roles as opposed to the ~65 available here. Which is why I think it's important that instead of limiting the choices of the mafia (because they have enough choices that it's almost pointless to try aside from a select few really really powerful roles), it would be better to maximize the powers the town would have to work with. That's what GMarshal is suggesting though. Of course we arn't going to be able to counter every move by the mafia. But there are those roles that are especially good for the mafia, and we need to try to deny them. KP roles may be good for the mafia, but they aren't the best. I'm talking about PoD, janitor, etc... | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
The end goal being that we can more effectively counter the mafia's plans, or at the very least, make them wifom about it. I haven't had time to think about it enough to advocate actually coming up with a public plan to set in motion against the mafia, because it otherwise seems to me that mafia could easily manipulate/counter most public plans. But I do think that the town would benefit from that sort of discussion more than mafia would. For instance, My first thought for what I would do as mafia would be to blanket as many of the top spots as I can. For instance, pick 1-4 (or 5, depending on the number of mafia). There' a fair chance that one of those won't be conflicted, so they have a good chance of getting the top pick. (For instance, #4 wasn't conflicted in PYP3, so decon got top pick.) The second idea for me would be less risky, and that would be to pick very high numbers to ensure that there is no conflict between them and others. This would ensure that they all get in above those who conflicted. In PYP3, this would have resulted with the mafia getting the 4th-8/9th picks. With that sort of draft, they could very easily pick up several powerful roles, even if they missed the best ones. Of those two, I think that the latter is more likely, so I think that conflict will be a bad thing for the town. Obviously if we plan for the latter, the former becomes more powerful, and they will likely chose that. Because of this, I don't think that any sort of number theory will be that useful in public. (Though there might be some delicious wifom cake in there somewhere for us to throw at them) But again, the discussion about what mafia would do is not for making a public plan based on it, but to help private plans. Anyone else have ideas on what mafia will try as far as number picking goes? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 15 2011 04:08 Node wrote: Also, is there anywhere we can see the numbers people have previously picked for the draft? I looked through the previous OPs, and they have the draft orders, but not the numbers themselves. Because I think it'll only add to the wifom within your scum team. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529¤tpage=17#340 | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 15 2011 06:34 Ace wrote: Good idea but trying to figure out what the mafia will pick is pretty much a crapshot at this point. There are just too many roles that are dangerous. Like Radfield iirc said - our best bet is to lynch anyone caught with clearly anti-town roles. This way no one can get away with " I was just picking this to deny Mafia from it" excuses. Imo the top spots should hog as many as the detective roles as possible, and let the middle pickers take prot roles. Mafia having extra KP isn't that scary if there are many prot + known investigation roles to stop them. In essence everyone could literally role claim and just go down the line forming investigations and without a brutal amount of KP Scum would be powerless to stop it. Right, but it's not just about figuring out what the mafia will do. By nature of the fact that it will be a public discussion, it's nearly impossible. But it gives us something else to talk about, put more information and opinions out there which will be very helpful for analyzing afterwards. In addition, if we find out that the #1 draft person is mafia, then it's likely that they blanketed the top picks, and didn't chose the high numbers. This will give us information that there will likely be mafia in those tied up in the conflicting high numbers. Alternatively, if we find a mafia who picked a high number then we gain the information that it's less likely for there to be mafia tied up in conflicting high numbers. (The specifics might be wrong, but the general idea is not. We stand to gain information on how the whole mafia worked by looking at what some of them did.) The only way to avoid this sort of profiling is to not make an organized attempt on the numbers, in which case we win anyways. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
This wouldn't work because the vote rigger is a 1 shot power, and over all is more dangerous to the town than helpful. The lists from a default vote will be useful enough that I think the advantage gained by the vote rigger is not worth the risk. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
[2][1]. I KNEW I should have just picked 3141592653589793238462643383... | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On that note, I'd like to swear my undying loyalty to the co-host. Something tells me that someone that powerful isn't going to necessarily have a alignment. Is it possible that FW holds some role similar to that of the instructor in Dr.H's battle royal? | ||
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