|
I am in platinum league and i have found this strategy rather effective in PVZ i just won 4 games in a row with it against platinum and diamond zergs, i didnt see a post on the strategy in the search so i thought i would put it up.
Basically the strategy revolves around getting 2 void rays out (a 3rd one while you attack if its going well) along with a combination of gateway units.
it basically goes
9 pylon
12 gateway
14 assimliator
15 pylon
18 cybercore
18 zealot (for the choke)
20 assimilator
23 stalker
24 warpgate tech
26 2 gateways
27 stargate
It revolves around your stargate not being scouted obviously so putting your stargate in a hidden or proxy location is ideal, you want to attack around the 9 minute mark. You should have enough gas to get 2 sentries with your first warp in so they have enough energy for 4 forcefields by the time you attack, usually you will be met with a few queens and a mixture of roaches and lings and essentially the zerg is caught with his pants down and cant really do much.
But on quite a few occasions i have got to his base and been met with hydras since by the time you attack the amount of hydras should be relatively low ive found it works almost as well even if they do go hydras or even mutas, the fact that they teched fast means they will be meeting you with less units anyways. I usually forcefield the ramp take down the natural and depending on my army size afterwards push through for victory or retreat back to my base and expand (usually during the battle) and tech to collosus. Your next attack should leave you with a nice mixture of collosus void rays and gateway units wich is a pretty hard combination for zerg to stop at the moment.
I have had alot of success with this strategy and just wanted to share it with the rest of you im suprised it hasnt been posted on here yet to be honest.
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145040-1v1-protoss-zerg-lost-temple#rd:dna
This is a replay against a platinum zerg on lost temple
Couple of weeks after i made this thread im watching HDstarcraft and i see ST_SQURTLE using this build in not 1 but 2 games against IDRA at IEM world championships , he must have read my post on TL and decided wow cheesemaster is so gosu im gonna start using this hahahaha jk of course 
anyways here is the replay  squirtle vs idra game 3: http://www.youtube.com/hdstarcraft#p/u/2/wiczv5WKWzk
|
A few replays would greatly strengthen the legitimacy of this post. I find it hard to evaluate the build without evidence or examples.
Just off the top of my head, I'm not sure how supportable three warpgates + stargate is off one base, though I could imagine a timing existing like with 3gate/robo. Voids are good against zerg compositions that don't have AA, but I feel like getting three warpgates may delay any pushes to the point that they could more reasonably have things that can shoot up. (keep in mind that 3 queens will kill 2 voids, and that 3 queens isn't an unreasonable number for someone who injects on two hatches/spreads creep)
I mean, I feel like there could exist a timing for this attack to hit (though I suppose that won't matter so much in lower leagues) but I don't know that it would work well against someone who keeps their builds tight.
|
Ill try and get some good replays up soon, i find that at this timing with the ground army you have the queens die way to fast to do any real damage. sure you might lose a bit more of your ground army by having stalkers target queens but you will benefit alot more in the long run as there will be nothing to stop your voidrays and a third one will be on the way. (assuming you get there and dont just turn around right away because of way to many hydras or something)
Although your right that you might not quite beable to produce out of 3 gateways but you will defenetly get more units out then by having 2 and after you build your initial 2 voidrays and start attacking you will beable to warp 3 units in at a time to reinforce no problem. Replays incoming probably tommoro.
|
Finland9 Posts
Diamond ~2800 toss posting.
I like stargate openings in PvZ too, but 3 gate + sg feels just a bit too all-inish for me, as constantly producing out of them all leaves very little room for further teching and/or expanding. Also, if the zerg is massing roach/ling and has a couple of spine crawlers, most of your ground army will probably die and he might go for a basetrade.
Personally I like to open with 2 gate and a stargate, but instead of attacking with voidrays mixed in my army I leave my main force home (to defend against a possible roach all-in that might come if they have not enough AA) and try to harass with 2 voidrays and a phoenix, with a 2nd phoenix on the way. If the stargate wasn't scouted, the zerg most likely doesn't have enough AA to deal with this as queens can be picked up by the phoenix.
This small attack, at least on my level, leads to the zerg losing his/her natural or possibly main more often than not, but it won't finish the game straight up because they will have spore crawlers in the base that wasn't destroyed.
From here on I like to put down a forge and expand and tech to high templars, using the phoenixes to scout and to deny map awareness from the zerg. I choose HTs instead of colossi because a "clever" zerg might put down a spire for corruptors if they anticipate me teching to colossi (which is the more done thing after forcing hydras). Of course the gateway-voidray-colossus deathball works fine most of the time if you can get the voidrays to target the corruptors and keep the colossi alive.
|
I do something similar, I go 2 gate stargate, then add another warp gate.
Get a few sentries zealots and stalkers and push when I have 3 void rays. Works very well. If the zerg is competent he will hold this off, but you would've damaged his natural to great extent, while yours get up and running. So then I go into carriers and 2-1 stalkers. I push when I have 2 or 3 carriers, the zerg tends to overproduce the corruptors and I win because of the upgraded stalkers and force fields that prevent hydras from firing effectively.
|
I can't see this working in the high diamond masters leagues. Im speaking of my own experience here if my opponent doesn't plan on expanding I start making queens(for transfuse or AA) roaches and lings also i put down some spine crawlers down.Now I look for chances of droning and just wait for his attack
|
Posted a replay, its against a platinum zerg probably a better execution then some of the others. Ive used it against mid level diamond players with success as well i just wasnt saving many replays until after i made this post but i will try to go into custom games and try it on a higher level player. Id say though that this strategy is perfectly viable for Diamond and lower at least, not in every situation. In the replay i posted the zerg didnt have a very formidable army until just as i got there (where it evened up more) but with some okay forcefields and a few voids with stalkers and zealots any hydras they do get out melt relatively fast.
Usually if they tech up to hydras this fast the situation will usually be the same in terms of army size although i have run into problems with lots of queens but its pretty rare for someone to make more than 3 queens without scouting some sort of air play. Anything more than 3 queens and a decent ground army can become slightly troublesome for this build.
I will post more replays soon hopefully against some higher league zergs.
|
Squirtle used a varation of this 3 gate stargate build in 2 games against idra at IEM, so id say its defenetly viable if done correctly, sometimes instead of 2 voids he got a void and a pheonix, also one game he went 2 gate stargate instead.
I think this build is defenetly viable if used in the right way, although it defenetly does have some early weakness's
|
In game 3 against idra he actually does an identical build to the one i described in the orignal post, the link for it is here: http://www.youtube.com/hdstarcraft#p/u/2/wiczv5WKWzk
Game 3 is a perfect example of how this build can work even with its counters out with some well placed forcefields and some charged up voidrays. Squirtle executed this build perfectly and im so happy to see a pro actually use this build as i thought it was defenetly viable when i posted it but alot of posters here on TL were skeptical. If you want to get an idea of how this build should be executed (as opposed to my sub par platinum level replays ) check out the link above.
|
If you do this optimally there are hints that give this away even if you hide the stargate (low-gas units at your front, saved chronoboost that is not used on the core). If you are masking your build it will hit at a time when most zergs will already have their third queen and they'll starting to get paranoid about you not having expoed yet. (A common paranoia reaction is getting spore crawlers, because they also work against dts).
Out of all the 1 base allins protoss can do to me, this is imo the easiest to hold (barring 3 gate robo which nobody does anyway). I've held this off without scouting it many times, with just the help of the 3rd queen; to give an idea a plain 4gate still beats me a fair amount even when I'm completely aware that it's coming.
|
On March 13 2011 19:16 dementrio wrote:
If you do this optimally there are hints that give this away even if you hide the stargate (low-gas units at your front, saved chronoboost that is not used on the core). If you are masking your build it will hit at a time when most zergs will already have their third queen and they'll starting to get paranoid about you not having expoed yet. (A common paranoia reaction is getting spore crawlers, because they also work against dts).
Out of all the 1 base allins protoss can do to me, this is imo the easiest to hold (barring 3 gate robo which nobody does anyway). I've held this off without scouting it many times, with just the help of the 3rd queen; to give an idea a plain 4gate still beats me a fair amount even when I'm completely aware that it's coming.
Im sure it depends on the zerg, but this build even caught idra off guard twice in the same best of 5 at IEM , so id say although if you know its coming it may be easy to hold off (alot of times theyve had three queens and some hydras and ive still won) it can defenetly catch even the best zergs with their pants down.
|
|
|
Recently tried out the same build and have won 5/5 matches, even though i had some clear micro mistakes. Im also playing on platin/diamon lvl. I also tried it out once on a terran, because i scouted his army was mostly marauders. Its a very good build i think, at least as long as the enemy doesnt know what you are planning
|
On March 21 2011 18:41 Flingoko wrote:Recently tried out the same build and have won 5/5 matches, even though i had some clear micro mistakes. Im also playing on platin/diamon lvl. I also tried it out once on a terran, because i scouted his army was mostly marauders. Its a very good build i think, at least as long as the enemy doesnt know what you are planning
Yea its quite a nice build ive been trying more 2 gate stargate pheonix based play recently, but ive had far more success with 3 gate stargate with void rays overall, its just so strong. Watching Squirtle do it with such finesse gives me shivers.
I thinks its funny how many people dismissed this build, then a few weeks later squirtle is using it at IEM and won every game against idra that he used it in
|
On March 21 2011 19:56 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 18:41 Flingoko wrote:Recently tried out the same build and have won 5/5 matches, even though i had some clear micro mistakes. Im also playing on platin/diamon lvl. I also tried it out once on a terran, because i scouted his army was mostly marauders. Its a very good build i think, at least as long as the enemy doesnt know what you are planning Yea its quite a nice build ive been trying more 2 gate stargate pheonix based play recently, but ive had far more success with 3 gate stargate with void rays overall, its just so strong. Watching Squirtle do it with such finesse gives me shivers. I thinks its funny how many people dismissed this build, then a few weeks later squirtle is using it at IEM and won every game against idra that he used it in
I've been doing a 2gate into stargate too against zerg to get 3-4 early phoenix to snipe queens and overlords to keep him contained and force a higher queen count/spore crawlers while i macro a gateway army and expand. I'm still refining it, and I'm not a tip top player by any stretch, but the build has definitely worked. I consistently beat almost every zerg I face using this, because after the first few phoenix, i can just focus on gateway units that help me stay alive if he trys to counter pressure
|
Make no mistake a 3 gate + anything in ZvP is meant to win the game or has to damage as otherwise your expo is too far behind and you will lose to roach or hydra timings. Don't get to used to doing this as at higher level of play you will lose more than you win, but it will work up until that point.
|
As a zerg how are you supposed to counter this build?
|
On July 15 2011 16:00 Wolvmatt. wrote:
As a zerg how are you supposed to counter this build?
I'm a high diamond random player and would say that a overlord scout into your opponent's base is pretty important here. If you find out that he is going for a stargate play Queens are probably the way to go especially with transfuse. For ground defense you can even go for a handful of spines if you know that you opponent is not expanding behind all of this. Without scouting it's pretty much almost unstopable though, but if you do so without taking much damage you should be way ahead.
|
I like this allin. I usually do 1 gate 1 stargate (proxy) into 2 more gw.
|
Yeah it is goddamn effective. I am platin as well, and Ive won a lot of games with this strat, ive expanded behind it and finished the crippled zerg. But it only work on zerg to a certain point, before u meet more skilled zergs, that know how to counter and scout it. It get a lot harder to pull of and u'll find out its hard to win with it. Do as MC does and expand before u go air. Belive me, its easy to counter once u meet some higher diamonds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
